I don't understand the deal with MoCo class size

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

So tell me why the best teachers are in schools that pay less and have mediocre benefits (privates)? Because the conditions are better for the teachers and the students.

Says who they are?

And does it also work this way in other occupations? For example, are the best doctors in practices and specialties that pay less and have mediocre benefits, or the best lawyers, or the best plumbers, electricians, or car mechanics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So tell me why the best teachers are in schools that pay less and have mediocre benefits (privates)? Because the conditions are better for the teachers and the students.

Says who they are?

And does it also work this way in other occupations? For example, are the best doctors in practices and specialties that pay less and have mediocre benefits, or the best lawyers, or the best plumbers, electricians, or car mechanics?

It has to do with being a government worker...government employees = mediocre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

So tell me why the best teachers are in schools that pay less and have mediocre benefits (privates)? Because the conditions are better for the teachers and the students.

Says who they are?

And does it also work this way in other occupations? For example, are the best doctors in practices and specialties that pay less and have mediocre benefits, or the best lawyers, or the best plumbers, electricians, or car mechanics?

It has to do with being a government worker...government employees = mediocre.

Well, that's begging the question.

You: The best teachers are in the private sector.
Me: How do you know that?
You: Because public-sector workers are mediocre.

Huh.

[Anonymous]

One could argue that the people who end up in private can't handle the demands of public...or don't have the right credential so they are stuck with the lower salaries.

[Anonymous]

I will say this--I work in public but am discouraged from being innovative or putting in too many extra hours. I am now considering private school. FWIW, I have multiple advanced degrees and attended Ivy League schools. Not that that indicates competence, but I also am hard-working and invested.

[Anonymous]

How are you discouraged from putting in extra hours?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One could argue that the people who end up in private can't handle the demands of public...or don't have the right credential so they are stuck with the lower salaries.

Or have a spouse who makes a decent salary and carries the family health insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say this--I work in public but am discouraged from being innovative or putting in too many extra hours. I am now considering private school. FWIW, I have multiple advanced degrees and attended Ivy League schools. Not that that indicates competence, but I also am hard-working and invested.

You are right. Your Ivy League degrees mean nothing with regard to competence or skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say this--I work in public but am discouraged from being innovative or putting in too many extra hours. I am now considering private school. FWIW, I have multiple advanced degrees and attended Ivy League schools. Not that that indicates competence, but I also am hard-working and invested.

You are right. Your Ivy League degrees mean nothing with regard to competence or skills.

Ouch, you are an ass. Just because you don't like the PP's comments that a private just might be a better work environment and where the talent seems to go, doesn't give you the right to take a low blow. Very childish indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say this--I work in public but am discouraged from being innovative or putting in too many extra hours. I am now considering private school. FWIW, I have multiple advanced degrees and attended Ivy League schools. Not that that indicates competence, but I also am hard-working and invested.

I am not sure what you mean by being discouraged from "putting in too many extra hours"? Teachers as a rule put in plenty of extra hours. Are you wanting to put in even more extra hours than that? And, if you're considering private school, are you wanting to put in even more extra hours than that, for less pay?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Pubic schools are wasteful in many ways...including how they arrange their pay scales. Like I said...teachers who are attracted to this environment are the ones who only care about pensions, and other ridiculous benefits that have no place in a public sector position.

I'm not a teacher, but you are crazy. Why shouldn't teachers care about their pay and pension? I would, especially if I have to deal with crazy and/or shitty parents. How do you expect teachers to eat and live? They need to do that, you know, in order to be able to teach your kids.

Why do you think government workers get a pension and cheaper healthcare after they retire? Because the pay is shitty, but the government needs to attract smart people, too.

Shame on teachers for wanting a living wage and good benefits! The nerve!

So you think a basic public school teacher who works 6hr days 8-9 months total (after summer, breaks and another 11 days off) deserves a 6 figure salary, free healthcare and a full pension? I sure don't. They chose higher class ratios over giving up their 6% raise this year. They don't give one crap about your kid's education. It is all about the $$ in MCPS. It is the highest paying county in the state and in the tri-state area. Yet, 83% of high schoolers failed a basic Algebra exam. Something is truly wrong in this county and it all comes down with the type of teachers it brings in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. I chose to leave a lucrative career 10 years ago to raise my children. There are countless people who choose mission over money. If you don't understand the concept, then you must not have ann appreciation for something called sacrifice.

As the PP said, nobody goes into teaching for the pay. Including public-school teaching.

We don't tell doctors that they should be in it for the healing, not the money. We don't tell doctors that their interest in compensation shows that they lack vocation and a sense of sacrifice. Why do we think it's ok to tell teachers those things?

No we don't tell anyone what they should do when it comes to career choices. But what I have found, in both the medical field and the education field, is that there are a special group of professionals who truly want to make a difference.

Speaking about education, unfortunately the public schools are lacking that type of mission driven teacher. Just my observation as a mom of a student that has been in both private and pubic. I have found that these mission driven educators have so much more to offer students...even beyond typical classroom instruction.

If you want to talk about doctors, I have found the same to be true. Mission driven typically equals doctors practicing in academic hospitals. Money driven typically equals private practice physicians who are cash based. The doctors in hospitals like Hopkins are typically more ethical and skillful than those who have opened private practice and focus on cash flow vs. best interests for patient.

Interesting article about why private school teachers are willing to take less salary...bottom line--because the job conditions are better. They spend less time answering to bureaucracies and more time teaching and getting to know the students. http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

That's good for them, if they can afford it.

Most teachers need money to pay the bills, health insurance for their families, and a retirement plan. My DH taught at a Big Three school for a long time before switching to MCPS for these (and other) reasons. His teaching is the same quality as it was at the Big Three, but he is paid a decent salary and can retire at some point.

There is no shame in needing a bona fide job. Most people do.

Teaching may be the same, but I'll bet he does less of it and more paperwork.

Actually, he is happier in his classroom now than he was in the Big Three school.

I call BS on this story. Big 3 teachers get full health insurance, retirement, and very good pay. If you want to say a parochial school, maybe - but most teachers in the elite college prep schools get incredible pay and benefits. Less paperwork and testing, half the class-size per class, and more freedom on their curriculum. I have 1 in a big 3, a sister who works in their sister big 3, and 2 in public. My private school kid in high school has between 11 and 18 kids in his class depending on the subject. My kids in public have 27 in 1st grade and between 29-33 in 9th grade. And most of my private school kid's teachers either have masters, multiple masters, or doctorates. And most that don't are working on their masters. This is not the same in public and I really doubt someone would get masters and doctorates to get paid $50K. My sister makes 83K and she is working on her masters. Teaches 4 classes a day.

Such a strange response. "BS"? Really?

Here's what MCPS offers that private schools do not:

*Robust health insurance, heavily subsidized
*Retirement AND a pension
*Excellent pay (topping out at over $100K; no private school teacher earns that)

I can assure you based on personal experience that Big Three teachers do not earn "incredible" pay.

Therein lies the problem. I rest my case.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will say this--I work in public but am discouraged from being innovative or putting in too many extra hours. I am now considering private school. FWIW, I have multiple advanced degrees and attended Ivy League schools. Not that that indicates competence, but I also am hard-working and invested.

You are right. Your Ivy League degrees mean nothing with regard to competence or skills.

Ouch, you are an ass. Just because you don't like the PP's comments that a private just might be a better work environment and where the talent seems to go, doesn't give you the right to take a low blow. Very childish indeed.

Why did PP mention her Ivy League degrees? How are they relevant? She herself indicates that the fact of having such degrees does not indicate competence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Sure. I chose to leave a lucrative career 10 years ago to raise my children. There are countless people who choose mission over money. If you don't understand the concept, then you must not have ann appreciation for something called sacrifice.

As the PP said, nobody goes into teaching for the pay. Including public-school teaching.

We don't tell doctors that they should be in it for the healing, not the money. We don't tell doctors that their interest in compensation shows that they lack vocation and a sense of sacrifice. Why do we think it's ok to tell teachers those things?

No we don't tell anyone what they should do when it comes to career choices. But what I have found, in both the medical field and the education field, is that there are a special group of professionals who truly want to make a difference.

Speaking about education, unfortunately the public schools are lacking that type of mission driven teacher. Just my observation as a mom of a student that has been in both private and pubic. I have found that these mission driven educators have so much more to offer students...even beyond typical classroom instruction.

If you want to talk about doctors, I have found the same to be true. Mission driven typically equals doctors practicing in academic hospitals. Money driven typically equals private practice physicians who are cash based. The doctors in hospitals like Hopkins are typically more ethical and skillful than those who have opened private practice and focus on cash flow vs. best interests for patient.

Interesting article about why private school teachers are willing to take less salary...bottom line--because the job conditions are better. They spend less time answering to bureaucracies and more time teaching and getting to know the students. http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2013/10/why-are-private-school-teachers-paid-less-than-public-school-teachers/280829/

That's good for them, if they can afford it.

Most teachers need money to pay the bills, health insurance for their families, and a retirement plan. My DH taught at a Big Three school for a long time before switching to MCPS for these (and other) reasons. His teaching is the same quality as it was at the Big Three, but he is paid a decent salary and can retire at some point.

There is no shame in needing a bona fide job. Most people do.

Teaching may be the same, but I'll bet he does less of it and more paperwork.

Actually, he is happier in his classroom now than he was in the Big Three school.

I call BS on this story. Big 3 teachers get full health insurance, retirement, and very good pay. If you want to say a parochial school, maybe - but most teachers in the elite college prep schools get incredible pay and benefits. Less paperwork and testing, half the class-size per class, and more freedom on their curriculum. I have 1 in a big 3, a sister who works in their sister big 3, and 2 in public. My private school kid in high school has between 11 and 18 kids in his class depending on the subject. My kids in public have 27 in 1st grade and between 29-33 in 9th grade. And most of my private school kid's teachers either have masters, multiple masters, or doctorates. And most that don't are working on their masters. This is not the same in public and I really doubt someone would get masters and doctorates to get paid $50K. My sister makes 83K and she is working on her masters. Teaches 4 classes a day.

Such a strange response. "BS"? Really?

Here's what MCPS offers that private schools do not:

*Robust health insurance, heavily subsidized
*Retirement AND a pension
*Excellent pay (topping out at over $100K; no private school teacher earns that)

I can assure you based on personal experience that Big Three teachers do not earn "incredible" pay.

Cite your sources or at the very least your "personal experience" of every big three teacher and their salary and benefits packages.

[Anonymous]

"Yet, 83% of high schoolers failed a basic Algebra exam. Something is truly wrong in this county and it all comes down with the type of teachers it brings in."

83 percent was among lower level math students the first year of a new curriculum and new test. It was closer to 60 (just for struggling students) in year 2. Still high butbut the 83 is not a good number to rant about.