Ethics of adoption

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are better off with bio parents, and everyone knows this including the pro-adoption crowd. That is why adoptive parents always live in fear that their "child" will want to find their real parents and will love their real parents better, because they know in their hearts that bio families have a profound bond. As a woman who has carried and given birth to a child the whole idea of adoption fills me with a cold dread. I honestly think any woman who's done the same would be against adoption bc it is just so unthinkable to me.

Not true at all. I've told my daughter if she wants to look for her natural parents - I am more than willing to help her. Is it hard for me to think about? Sure. Is it the right thing to do? Absolutely.

Calling the birthparents "natural" parents is bizarre - so you are the unnatural parent? We have an open adoption - nothing to be scared of as we know the good and bad as does our child.

natural is the preferred term of birth mothers - that is my understanding.

Preferred by whom? I don't know anyone who uses it. My child has two mothers. She is the only other person who could ever love my child like I do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an honest question. How can parents be coerced into placing their child for adoption?

A variety of reasons from false promises, to saying it is only temporary, to doing back door ways of getting custody of a child, being lied to, not being told everything/explain process, etc. Or, them changing their mind within revocation and preadopt family refuses to return the child and because the courts take so long, they generally leave the kids with claiming the kids are bonded, etc. Or, not having a revocation period.

Are you actually aware of the laws governing adoption?

Very - we adopted and we helped our birth mom fight in adoption for her older child that she did not agree to. The other family took advantage of her and lied and the courts allowed it despite how inappropriate it was. We have spent $70,000 to get the child back and on appeals. Clearly you don't know who it works to think adoption are all proper and great. Ours is great, but the other situation is horrific. We will spend everything we have to help her get her child back.

Yes, lets throw out all the wonderful adoption placements because one birthmother was screwed over. Or didn't know her rights. Or didn't know the process. Or changed her mind.

One unethical adoption is far to many. If it happened to us, don't think it will not happen to someone you know. She knew her rights. She knew the process. This child was not up for adoption. Our child was previously placed but this was a sibling she was raising. You are kidding yourself to think most adoptions are wonderful. But, please keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. One has to assume you did something questionable if you feel that way. A good adoptive family will make sure the birthparents have their own attorney paid for, know their rights, including revocation.

Your are projecting your bad situation onto all adoptions and that is seriously wrong. Perhaps a little therapy and perspective is in order if you feel the need to accuse strangers of wrong doing and paint all adoptions as failures or evil and corrupt. I know a lot of adoptees and adoptive parents and I know no one who shares your jaded view--even after 40-50 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need a system that enables all mothers to raise their child. Adoption and abortion ate equally abhorrent.

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are better off with bio parents, and everyone knows this including the pro-adoption crowd. That is why adoptive parents always live in fear that their "child" will want to find their real parents and will love their real parents better, because they know in their hearts that bio families have a profound bond. As a woman who has carried and given birth to a child the whole idea of adoption fills me with a cold dread. I honestly think any woman who's done the same would be against adoption bc it is just so unthinkable to me.

Not true at all. I've told my daughter if she wants to look for her natural parents - I am more than willing to help her. Is it hard for me to think about? Sure. Is it the right thing to do? Absolutely.

Calling the birthparents "natural" parents is bizarre - so you are the unnatural parent? We have an open adoption - nothing to be scared of as we know the good and bad as does our child.

natural is the preferred term of birth mothers - that is my understanding.

Preferred by whom? I don't know anyone who uses it. My child has two mothers. She is the only other person who could ever love my child like I do.

Really? My daughter has two mother mothers and two fathers who love her just as much. Motherhood-by any means--does not corner the market on love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for improved services for mothers and families--paid maternity leave, affordable child care--woo hoo!

I just find it bizarre that some of PPs see that the primary goal for increasing these kinds of resources is to create a world where adoption never happens. That the primary goal is to end the horror that is adoption, when adoption is a perfectly viable option.

That isn't going to fix why many place. They are minimizing the true issues. We have supports in place for low income with affordable child care and more but not everyone has access to all that nor has the skills to raise a child. If life were only that simple.

Life isn't simple but isn't it amazing that billions of people have been able to navigate it without having their hand held?
How mothers in third world countries without access to clean water or a stable government are able to raise their child?

You're right. I'm going to agitate for an unstable government and unclean water.

What is your point? That we shouldn't progress as a society?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is an honest question. How can parents be coerced into placing their child for adoption?

A variety of reasons from false promises, to saying it is only temporary, to doing back door ways of getting custody of a child, being lied to, not being told everything/explain process, etc. Or, them changing their mind within revocation and preadopt family refuses to return the child and because the courts take so long, they generally leave the kids with claiming the kids are bonded, etc. Or, not having a revocation period.

Are you actually aware of the laws governing adoption?

Very - we adopted and we helped our birth mom fight in adoption for her older child that she did not agree to. The other family took advantage of her and lied and the courts allowed it despite how inappropriate it was. We have spent $70,000 to get the child back and on appeals. Clearly you don't know who it works to think adoption are all proper and great. Ours is great, but the other situation is horrific. We will spend everything we have to help her get her child back.

Yes, lets throw out all the wonderful adoption placements because one birthmother was screwed over. Or didn't know her rights. Or didn't know the process. Or changed her mind.

One unethical adoption is far to many. If it happened to us, don't think it will not happen to someone you know. She knew her rights. She knew the process. This child was not up for adoption. Our child was previously placed but this was a sibling she was raising. You are kidding yourself to think most adoptions are wonderful. But, please keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better. One has to assume you did something questionable if you feel that way. A good adoptive family will make sure the birthparents have their own attorney paid for, know their rights, including revocation.

Yes and one person falsely accused of a crime is one too many. And one false diagnosis is one too many. And one turd in a punch bowl is one too many.

Doesn't change what the PP said. Don't paint all adoption, which for the most part is wonderful and needed with our tainted brush.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for improved services for mothers and families--paid maternity leave, affordable child care--woo hoo!

I just find it bizarre that some of PPs see that the primary goal for increasing these kinds of resources is to create a world where adoption never happens. That the primary goal is to end the horror that is adoption, when adoption is a perfectly viable option.

That isn't going to fix why many place. They are minimizing the true issues. We have supports in place for low income with affordable child care and more but not everyone has access to all that nor has the skills to raise a child. If life were only that simple.

Life isn't simple but isn't it amazing that billions of people have been able to navigate it without having their hand held?
How mothers in third world countries without access to clean water or a stable government are able to raise their child?

You're right. I'm going to agitate for an unstable government and unclean water.

What is your point? That we shouldn't progress as a society?

Progress or complete overhaul of a government? Because you are suggesting socialism not progress.

Progress is all the choice a woman has today, as opposed to just 10 years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for improved services for mothers and families--paid maternity leave, affordable child care--woo hoo!

I just find it bizarre that some of PPs see that the primary goal for increasing these kinds of resources is to create a world where adoption never happens. That the primary goal is to end the horror that is adoption, when adoption is a perfectly viable option.

That isn't going to fix why many place. They are minimizing the true issues. We have supports in place for low income with affordable child care and more but not everyone has access to all that nor has the skills to raise a child. If life were only that simple.

Life isn't simple but isn't it amazing that billions of people have been able to navigate it without having their hand held?
How mothers in third world countries without access to clean water or a stable government are able to raise their child?

You're right. I'm going to agitate for an unstable government and unclean water.

What is your point? That we shouldn't progress as a society?

Are you stupid or deliberately obtuse? Billions of women around the world can manage to raise their children in less than ideal circumstances but somehow, American women are so helpless that they can not accomplish the same with all the resources available in the country without piling on more. How embarrassing to think that American women are so fragile and incompetent. So much for women's liberation. Today's American women doesn't want equality, she wants special treatment because what she can't seem to manage what third world mothers can do. Shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for improved services for mothers and families--paid maternity leave, affordable child care--woo hoo!

I just find it bizarre that some of PPs see that the primary goal for increasing these kinds of resources is to create a world where adoption never happens. That the primary goal is to end the horror that is adoption, when adoption is a perfectly viable option.

That isn't going to fix why many place. They are minimizing the true issues. We have supports in place for low income with affordable child care and more but not everyone has access to all that nor has the skills to raise a child. If life were only that simple.

Life isn't simple but isn't it amazing that billions of people have been able to navigate it without having their hand held?
How mothers in third world countries without access to clean water or a stable government are able to raise their child?

You're right. I'm going to agitate for an unstable government and unclean water.

What is your point? That we shouldn't progress as a society?

Are you stupid or deliberately obtuse? Billions of women around the world can manage to raise their children in less than ideal circumstances but somehow, American women are so helpless that they can not accomplish the same with all the resources available in the country without piling on more. How embarrassing to think that American women are so fragile and incompetent. So much for women's liberation. Today's American women doesn't want equality, she wants special treatment because what she can't seem to manage what third world mothers can do. Shameful.

I'm both stupid AND deliberately obtuse, thanks.

I think your argument against governmental support systems ("Third World mothers make do with less") is totally off base. We HAVE the resources to support women and families. I think we should.

American women are also strong and resilient, raising in children in all kinds of circumstances. Bolstering their ability to do so can only be a good thing. Come on. Y

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for improved services for mothers and families--paid maternity leave, affordable child care--woo hoo!

I just find it bizarre that some of PPs see that the primary goal for increasing these kinds of resources is to create a world where adoption never happens. That the primary goal is to end the horror that is adoption, when adoption is a perfectly viable option.

That isn't going to fix why many place. They are minimizing the true issues. We have supports in place for low income with affordable child care and more but not everyone has access to all that nor has the skills to raise a child. If life were only that simple.

Life isn't simple but isn't it amazing that billions of people have been able to navigate it without having their hand held?
How mothers in third world countries without access to clean water or a stable government are able to raise their child?

You're right. I'm going to agitate for an unstable government and unclean water.

What is your point? That we shouldn't progress as a society?

Are you stupid or deliberately obtuse? Billions of women around the world can manage to raise their children in less than ideal circumstances but somehow, American women are so helpless that they can not accomplish the same with all the resources available in the country without piling on more. How embarrassing to think that American women are so fragile and incompetent. So much for women's liberation. Today's American women doesn't want equality, she wants special treatment because what she can't seem to manage what third world mothers can do. Shameful.

I'm both stupid AND deliberately obtuse, thanks.

I think your argument against governmental support systems ("Third World mothers make do with less") is totally off base. We HAVE the resources to support women and families. I think we should.

American women are also strong and resilient, raising in children in all kinds of circumstances. Bolstering their ability to do so can only be a good thing. Come on. Y

Just because you think we should doesn't mean the other 100+ million taxpayers do. Since this isn't communist Russia and all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for improved services for mothers and families--paid maternity leave, affordable child care--woo hoo!

I just find it bizarre that some of PPs see that the primary goal for increasing these kinds of resources is to create a world where adoption never happens. That the primary goal is to end the horror that is adoption, when adoption is a perfectly viable option.

That isn't going to fix why many place. They are minimizing the true issues. We have supports in place for low income with affordable child care and more but not everyone has access to all that nor has the skills to raise a child. If life were only that simple.

Life isn't simple but isn't it amazing that billions of people have been able to navigate it without having their hand held?
How mothers in third world countries without access to clean water or a stable government are able to raise their child?

You're right. I'm going to agitate for an unstable government and unclean water.

What is your point? That we shouldn't progress as a society?

Are you stupid or deliberately obtuse? Billions of women around the world can manage to raise their children in less than ideal circumstances but somehow, American women are so helpless that they can not accomplish the same with all the resources available in the country without piling on more. How embarrassing to think that American women are so fragile and incompetent. So much for women's liberation. Today's American women doesn't want equality, she wants special treatment because what she can't seem to manage what third world mothers can do. Shameful.

I'm both stupid AND deliberately obtuse, thanks.

I think your argument against governmental support systems ("Third World mothers make do with less") is totally off base. We HAVE the resources to support women and families. I think we should.

American women are also strong and resilient, raising in children in all kinds of circumstances. Bolstering their ability to do so can only be a good thing. Come on. Y

Just because you think we should doesn't mean the other 100+ million taxpayers do. Since this isn't communist Russia and all.

Thank you! Frankly, what passes for feminism today makes me cringe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need a system that enables all mothers to raise their child. Adoption and abortion ate equally abhorrent.

LOL

Unwanted pregnancies are the issue, crazy PP, not the choices a woman is left with.

I'll join my sister PP with a resounding LMFAO!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for improved services for mothers and families--paid maternity leave, affordable child care--woo hoo!

I just find it bizarre that some of PPs see that the primary goal for increasing these kinds of resources is to create a world where adoption never happens. That the primary goal is to end the horror that is adoption, when adoption is a perfectly viable option.

That isn't going to fix why many place. They are minimizing the true issues. We have supports in place for low income with affordable child care and more but not everyone has access to all that nor has the skills to raise a child. If life were only that simple.

Life isn't simple but isn't it amazing that billions of people have been able to navigate it without having their hand held?
How mothers in third world countries without access to clean water or a stable government are able to raise their child?

You're right. I'm going to agitate for an unstable government and unclean water.

What is your point? That we shouldn't progress as a society?

Are you stupid or deliberately obtuse? Billions of women around the world can manage to raise their children in less than ideal circumstances but somehow, American women are so helpless that they can not accomplish the same with all the resources available in the country without piling on more. How embarrassing to think that American women are so fragile and incompetent. So much for women's liberation. Today's American women doesn't want equality, she wants special treatment because what she can't seem to manage what third world mothers can do. Shameful.

I'm both stupid AND deliberately obtuse, thanks.

I think your argument against governmental support systems ("Third World mothers make do with less") is totally off base. We HAVE the resources to support women and families. I think we should.

American women are also strong and resilient, raising in children in all kinds of circumstances. Bolstering their ability to do so can only be a good thing. Come on. Y

Just because you think we should doesn't mean the other 100+ million taxpayers do. Since this isn't communist Russia and all.

These billions of women would happily live in better circumstances were they available. They also exist in (sub-)cultures that are built around mutual support, with mothers sharing responsibilities or fostering through extended family. And, in many cases, isn't that the same as open adoption in many ways?

[Anonymous]

Barring rape and all the other statistically unrealistic "what ifs" there is a bottom line here.

If you are a woman having sex, even while on birth control, there is a chance you will become pregnant. As adults we have to be responsible for our actions and accept the consequences of our actions.

Abortion, adoption, raising the child. Those are the choices. You cannot expect anyone else to foot the bill for you to be a parent. Its ridiculous.

And I think questioning the ethics of adoption just to further a socialist agenda is nasty and uncalled for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

These billions of women would happily live in better circumstances were they available. They also exist in (sub-)cultures that are built around mutual support, with mothers sharing responsibilities or fostering through extended family. And, in many cases, isn't that the same as open adoption in many ways?

So wait, are you for adoption now?