Ludlow-Taylor getting a new a new Principal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's also interesting how on this thread people are genuinely expressing there desire for more white kids at this school, when I think what people really want is more kids at the school that come from higher SES. If not, then would the people on this thread, who claim to want more white families at the school, welcome a more white kids from families like "Honey Boo Boo"? I think not. Alternatively, what if the school was majority black, but the black kids came from families like the Obamas (Ivy league educated lawyers)? Would this not be Ok?

In my opinion, if you want higher SES families at your school, then just say that. Don't say "Black", "White", "Latino", "Asian", etc.

BTW, I'm an African-American currently doing my master's at Johns Hopkins Univ and my wife is an African-American with a master's from George Washington University, we have two kids, and hopefully we won't be looked down upon if we decide to enroll our kids at Ludlow-Taylor Elementary School.

Another high SES AA here. I also wondered about my child being judged negatively in Cap Hill schools after reading comments on this forum.

I'd say there are a couple things at play here:

First, because there are effectively no low-SES non-Hispanic white people living in DC proper, white families are presumed to be high-SES; meanwhile, there are AA families at every SES level in the District, but I think many white people assume that AA kids at LT are from wards 7 & 8 and likely low-SES. Basically, unless AA parents show up and discuss their jobs with white parents, they're often assumed to be low-SES. (That sounds awful. It -is- awful. But I think it's true.)

Second, I think for many white families, it's not about SES -- it really is about color. They want a critical mass of white children so their kids won't stick out as the only white ones.

I frequently see people comparing LT to Maury and offering Maury as something LT should strive to be. But LT already has way more kids performing at the advanced level than Maury does -- the biggest difference is in the demographics: Maury is 48% white and 40% black, with 55% of students IB; LT is 16% white and 77% black, with 21% IB.

I decided to put the above comment in bold in order to emphasize why you see so much division in the world. You still have a critical mass of people who like to divide humans in us/them groups. This is a problem, because there is no monolithic group of people on this planet who think alike just because you decide to put them in a group. Think about this for a second when you look at what is currently happening in Iraq. Sunnis fighting Shia. Most Americans (probably people on this thread too) could see a Sunni and Shia, and just think of them as being the same. The reason I gave this example is because this whole idea of "whites" being a monolithic group is also wrong. This is such a simplistic way of thinking when you look at history and you saw Germans fighting Russians, Russians fighting the Polish, and Germans fighting Americans. Today, we would see them as all "white" and thus the "same".

You'll note that I did say "for many" white families -- I wasn't making any claims about ALL white families. I have heard several white parents make statements to that effect, enough that I'm comfortable extrapolating that it's true of "many" of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's also interesting how on this thread people are genuinely expressing there desire for more white kids at this school, when I think what people really want is more kids at the school that come from higher SES. If not, then would the people on this thread, who claim to want more white families at the school, welcome a more white kids from families like "Honey Boo Boo"? I think not. Alternatively, what if the school was majority black, but the black kids came from families like the Obamas (Ivy league educated lawyers)? Would this not be Ok?

In my opinion, if you want higher SES families at your school, then just say that. Don't say "Black", "White", "Latino", "Asian", etc.

BTW, I'm an African-American currently doing my master's at Johns Hopkins Univ and my wife is an African-American with a master's from George Washington University, we have two kids, and hopefully we won't be looked down upon if we decide to enroll our kids at Ludlow-Taylor Elementary School.

Another high SES AA here. I also wondered about my child being judged negatively in Cap Hill schools after reading comments on this forum.

I'd say there are a couple things at play here:

First, because there are effectively no low-SES non-Hispanic white people living in DC proper, white families are presumed to be high-SES; meanwhile, there are AA families at every SES level in the District, but I think many white people assume that AA kids at LT are from wards 7 & 8 and likely low-SES. Basically, unless AA parents show up and discuss their jobs with white parents, they're often assumed to be low-SES. (That sounds awful. It -is- awful. But I think it's true.)

Second, I think for many white families, it's not about SES -- it really is about color. They want a critical mass of white children so their kids won't stick out as the only white ones.

I frequently see people comparing LT to Maury and offering Maury as something LT should strive to be. But LT already has way more kids performing at the advanced level than Maury does -- the biggest difference is in the demographics: Maury is 48% white and 40% black, with 55% of students IB; LT is 16% white and 77% black, with 21% IB.

I decided to put the above comment in bold in order to emphasize why you see so much division in the world. You still have a critical mass of people who like to divide humans in us/them groups. This is a problem, because there is no monolithic group of people on this planet who think alike just because you decide to put them in a group. Think about this for a second when you look at what is currently happening in Iraq. Sunnis fighting Shia. Most Americans (probably people on this thread too) could see a Sunni and Shia, and just think of them as being the same. The reason I gave this example is because this whole idea of "whites" being a monolithic group is also wrong. This is such a simplistic way of thinking when you look at history and you saw Germans fighting Russians, Russians fighting the Polish, and Germans fighting Americans. Today, we would see them as all "white" and thus the "same".

I get what you're saying but your examples are flawed because the groups you mentioned actually could be mistaken for each other. Russians/Germans, Sunni/Shia--they look alike. Blacks and Whites don't look alike even if we all bleed red blood and put our pants on one leg at a time.

Much easier to create and perpetuate the us/them groups when you have a clear visual distinction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's also interesting how on this thread people are genuinely expressing there desire for more white kids at this school, when I think what people really want is more kids at the school that come from higher SES. If not, then would the people on this thread, who claim to want more white families at the school, welcome a more white kids from families like "Honey Boo Boo"? I think not. Alternatively, what if the school was majority black, but the black kids came from families like the Obamas (Ivy league educated lawyers)? Would this not be Ok?

In my opinion, if you want higher SES families at your school, then just say that. Don't say "Black", "White", "Latino", "Asian", etc.

BTW, I'm an African-American currently doing my master's at Johns Hopkins Univ and my wife is an African-American with a master's from George Washington University, we have two kids, and hopefully we won't be looked down upon if we decide to enroll our kids at Ludlow-Taylor Elementary School.

Another high SES AA here. I also wondered about my child being judged negatively in Cap Hill schools after reading comments on this forum.

I'd say there are a couple things at play here:

First, because there are effectively no low-SES non-Hispanic white people living in DC proper, white families are presumed to be high-SES; meanwhile, there are AA families at every SES level in the District, but I think many white people assume that AA kids at LT are from wards 7 & 8 and likely low-SES. Basically, unless AA parents show up and discuss their jobs with white parents, they're often assumed to be low-SES. (That sounds awful. It -is- awful. But I think it's true.)

Second, I think for many white families, it's not about SES -- it really is about color. They want a critical mass of white children so their kids won't stick out as the only white ones.

I frequently see people comparing LT to Maury and offering Maury as something LT should strive to be. But LT already has way more kids performing at the advanced level than Maury does -- the biggest difference is in the demographics: Maury is 48% white and 40% black, with 55% of students IB; LT is 16% white and 77% black, with 21% IB.

I decided to put the above comment in bold in order to emphasize why you see so much division in the world. You still have a critical mass of people who like to divide humans in us/them groups. This is a problem, because there is no monolithic group of people on this planet who think alike just because you decide to put them in a group. Think about this for a second when you look at what is currently happening in Iraq. Sunnis fighting Shia. Most Americans (probably people on this thread too) could see a Sunni and Shia, and just think of them as being the same. The reason I gave this example is because this whole idea of "whites" being a monolithic group is also wrong. This is such a simplistic way of thinking when you look at history and you saw Germans fighting Russians, Russians fighting the Polish, and Germans fighting Americans. Today, we would see them as all "white" and thus the "same".

You'll note that I did say "for many" white families -- I wasn't making any claims about ALL white families. I have heard several white parents make statements to that effect, enough that I'm comfortable extrapolating that it's true of "many" of them.

Also, following up on my own comment: I get why a parent would feel that way, and as long as parents own that feeling, I think it's OK. The parents I have a hard time with are the ones who assume the school would actually be a better school with more white kids -- not just a better fit for a white child, but a better school, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

AnonymousAlso, following up on my own comment: I get why a parent would feel that way, and as long as parents own that feeling, I think it's OK. The parents I have a hard time with are the ones who assume the school would actually be a better school with more white kids -- not just a better fit for a white child, but a better school, period.[/quote wrote:

what if someone A. thinks a school thats 70% high SES would be a better school for both high SES kids and those lower SES kids how attend and B. Assumes that most or all high SES kids at a school in DC are white.

[Anonymous]

This thread serves as a fine reminder of why we lotteried into Maury, without the stress of wondering how many years we could last at L-T as a high SES, mixed-race, in-boundary family with few kumbaya leanings. L-T seems to serve a small number of granola crunchie high SES neighbors, a dwindling group of low SES neighbors, and a profoundly, and weirdly, entitled OOB population.

Maury's set-up is straightforward: the school primarily serves the neighborhood, meaning most little kids who live nearby. From where I sit, enrolling our kid at L-T would invite waaay too much stress into our lives. Not worth it no matter what the new principal does or doesn't achieve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread serves as a fine reminder of why we lotteried into Maury, without the stress of wondering how many years we could last at L-T as a high SES, mixed-race, in-boundary family with few kumbaya leanings. L-T seems to serve a small number of granola crunchie high SES neighbors, a dwindling group of low SES neighbors, and a profoundly, and weirdly, entitled OOB population.

this sounds intriguing. Tell me more.

[Anonymous]

13:20, I know it's depressing, but I encourage you to keep reading these boards and use it as a reminder to be an advocate for your child's education.

[Anonymous]

I am kind of happy the new principal is white, so at least the fact that she is not white won't be used as an excuse for parents accusing her of not being 'welcoming' enough to high-SES families. Also, I like to finally read it as it is. Some might hate this thread, I like it because at least the truth as bad as it might be is put out there. As a probable LT parent in the coming years, IB but baby is very young, I want to know what the deal is.

My real concern is that this person is close to retirement, and might end up being just a place holder... I don't like that.

As for AA being stereotyped, I met two young AA girls at the LT playground one weekend and the first thing they told me was 'we play here, but we don't go to school here' , we go to St. Peter's. The meaning was clearly ' don't take us for one of those AA'. It was clear from their behavior, attitude and grammar that they were from a high SES AA family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It's also interesting how on this thread people are genuinely expressing there desire for more white kids at this school, when I think what people really want is more kids at the school that come from higher SES. If not, then would the people on this thread, who claim to want more white families at the school, welcome a more white kids from families like "Honey Boo Boo"? I think not. Alternatively, what if the school was majority black, but the black kids came from families like the Obamas (Ivy league educated lawyers)? Would this not be Ok?

In my opinion, if you want higher SES families at your school, then just say that. Don't say "Black", "White", "Latino", "Asian", etc.

BTW, I'm an African-American currently doing my master's at Johns Hopkins Univ and my wife is an African-American with a master's from George Washington University, we have two kids, and hopefully we won't be looked down upon if we decide to enroll our kids at Ludlow-Taylor Elementary School.

Another high SES AA here. I also wondered about my child being judged negatively in Cap Hill schools after reading comments on this forum.

I'd say there are a couple things at play here:

First, because there are effectively no low-SES non-Hispanic white people living in DC proper, white families are presumed to be high-SES; meanwhile, there are AA families at every SES level in the District, but I think many white people assume that AA kids at LT are from wards 7 & 8 and likely low-SES. Basically, unless AA parents show up and discuss their jobs with white parents, they're often assumed to be low-SES. (That sounds awful. It -is- awful. But I think it's true.)

Second, I think for many white families, it's not about SES -- it really is about color. They want a critical mass of white children so their kids won't stick out as the only white ones.

I frequently see people comparing LT to Maury and offering Maury as something LT should strive to be. But LT already has way more kids performing at the advanced level than Maury does -- the biggest difference is in the demographics: Maury is 48% white and 40% black, with 55% of students IB; LT is 16% white and 77% black, with 21% IB.

I decided to put the above comment in bold in order to emphasize why you see so much division in the world. You still have a critical mass of people who like to divide humans in us/them groups. This is a problem, because there is no monolithic group of people on this planet who think alike just because you decide to put them in a group. Think about this for a second when you look at what is currently happening in Iraq. Sunnis fighting Shia. Most Americans (probably people on this thread too) could see a Sunni and Shia, and just think of them as being the same. The reason I gave this example is because this whole idea of "whites" being a monolithic group is also wrong. This is such a simplistic way of thinking when you look at history and you saw Germans fighting Russians, Russians fighting the Polish, and Germans fighting Americans. Today, we would see them as all "white" and thus the "same".

I get what you're saying but your examples are flawed because the groups you mentioned actually could be mistaken for each other. Russians/Germans, Sunni/Shia--they look alike. Blacks and Whites don't look alike even if we all bleed red blood and put our pants on one leg at a time.

Much easier to create and perpetuate the us/them groups when you have a clear visual distinction.

Again, this is just another reason why you see division in the world. These views are mostly views coming from adults and passed down to children. Again, if you look back at history, Germans did not think that Russians looked like them, and as a matter of fact did not think they were as intellectual as them. This is my point, humans throughout time arbitrarily make these distinctions between other humans and pass that on to generations. For example, Norwegians look very different from Italians (in general). I think the elephant in the room here is that a number of families in Capitol Hill see having black kids in school as bad for their child and don't want their child in a majority black school (no matter if these black kids come from families who are just as accomplished or even more accomplished than these white families).

Also, think about this. How many of these families who don't want their white child to be one of the only white children in a school where the school was mostly Asian and Hispanic students from High SES families? Why is it a problem if the school has a lot of Black students from High SES families?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am kind of happy the new principal is white, so at least the fact that she is not white won't be used as an excuse for parents accusing her of not being 'welcoming' enough to high-SES families. Also, I like to finally read it as it is. Some might hate this thread, I like it because at least the truth as bad as it might be is put out there. As a probable LT parent in the coming years, IB but baby is very young, I want to know what the deal is.

My real concern is that this person is close to retirement, and might end up being just a place holder... I don't like that.

As for AA being stereotyped, I met two young AA girls at the LT playground one weekend and the first thing they told me was 'we play here, but we don't go to school here' , we go to St. Peter's. The meaning was clearly ' don't take us for one of those AA'. It was clear from their behavior, attitude and grammar that they were from a high SES AA family.

Hopefully people are paying attention to these statements. This is why it can be harder for extremely qualified blacks to move up in the world. It seems like a black principal who has a great background, with degrees from very good schools still would not have been embraced by these parents. It seems that they just wanted someone who looked a certain way... wow.


Wow, two young girls playing at a playground are trying to prove to you that they are one of the "good" black kids? Really? Just because they said they don't go to school there, and that they go to St. Peter's? If they said that to an African-American adult, do you think that adult would think that they were trying to prove that they were one of the "good" kids? Probably not huh?

***Newsflash*** Most educated African-Americans that I know could care less about proving themselves to anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am kind of happy the new principal is white, so at least the fact that she is not white won't be used as an excuse for parents accusing her of not being 'welcoming' enough to high-SES families. Also, I like to finally read it as it is. Some might hate this thread, I like it because at least the truth as bad as it might be is put out there. As a probable LT parent in the coming years, IB but baby is very young, I want to know what the deal is.

My real concern is that this person is close to retirement, and might end up being just a place holder... I don't like that.

As for AA being stereotyped, I met two young AA girls at the LT playground one weekend and the first thing they told me was 'we play here, but we don't go to school here' , we go to St. Peter's. The meaning was clearly ' don't take us for one of those AA'. It was clear from their behavior, attitude and grammar that they were from a high SES AA family.

Hopefully people are paying attention to these statements. This is why it can be harder for extremely qualified blacks to move up in the world. It seems like a black principal who has a great background, with degrees from very good schools still would not have been embraced by these parents. It seems that they just wanted someone who looked a certain way... wow.


Wow, two young girls playing at a playground are trying to prove to you that they are one of the "good" black kids? Really? Just because they said they don't go to school there, and that they go to St. Peter's? If they said that to an African-American adult, do you think that adult would think that they were trying to prove that they were one of the "good" kids? Probably not huh?

***Newsflash*** Most educated African-Americans that I know could care less about proving themselves to anyone.

+1,000^^^

Thank you! I read the post and wondered the same thing, how did she conclude that the AA were trying to prove that they didn't attend L-T? I , also, took issue with the statement that it was "clear from their attitude, grammar, and behavior that they were from a high SES AA family" the ignorance of some people is astounding. The statement makes me think of all the times white people have said to me, "you don't talk like other Blacks."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread serves as a fine reminder of why we lotteried into Maury, without the stress of wondering how many years we could last at L-T as a high SES, mixed-race, in-boundary family with few kumbaya leanings. L-T seems to serve a small number of granola crunchie high SES neighbors, a dwindling group of low SES neighbors, and a profoundly, and weirdly, entitled OOB population.

this sounds intriguing. Tell me more.

It's a truth universally acknowledged in the L-T District among "old timers" like us (a decade in the neighborhood) that the more hippie/granola/kumbaya you are as a high SES parent, the more likely you are to stick around L-T past K. Few can stand it - the moral and PC demands are too high. At Maury, Brent, SWS, Cap Hill Montessori and Tyler Spanish Immersion, seeking a decent elementary school education is enough. At L-T, you need to turn a blind eye to rampant address cheating and being part of a school community that looks very little like the one on your block in the name of unity. You're either with the PTA parents or against them and it's a drag.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It's not as simple as "white vs. black." It's more "white culture" vs. "black culture." In addition to the culture class, there is an economic class that breeds a lot of resentment. This resentment comes from both 1) entitled white people who want to attend their school of right and make it a high-SES and tier 1 (like the other gentrified schools in nearby communities) and 2) disenfranchised black people who have deep ties to the school community and feel the heat coming from white people who clearly want them out. The principal was in group 2 and was very defensive about it, which group 1 used to further their cause.

Meanwhile, there are plenty of people in the middle (lie myself) that don't fit either stereotype who are frustrated by the race discussion and just want everyone to focus on educating our kids.

"White culture vs Black culture"? What is this 1955? In the age where we have a African-American President & a First Lady who are both Ivy League educated with Law degrees, it's interesting how some people still want to look at white people as being entitled, higher SES type people, and black people as "disenfranchised".

It's also interesting how on this thread people are genuinely expressing there desire for more white kids at this school, when I think what people really want is more kids at the school that come from higher SES. If not, then would the people on this thread, who claim to want more white families at the school, welcome a more white kids from families like "Honey Boo Boo"? I think not. Alternatively, what if the school was majority black, but the black kids came from families like the Obamas (Ivy league educated lawyers)? Would this not be Ok?

In my opinion, if you want higher SES families at your school, then just say that. Don't say "Black", "White", "Latino", "Asian", etc.

BTW, I'm an African-American currently doing my master's at Johns Hopkins Univ and my wife is an African-American with a master's from George Washington University, we have two kids, and hopefully we won't be looked down upon if we decide to enroll our kids at Ludlow-Taylor Elementary School.

Another high SES AA here. I also wondered about my child being judged negatively in Cap Hill schools after reading comments on this forum.

Don't be naive. It doesn't matter how many degrees you have or your HHI, some of these people will see your DC and immediately think another "obstacle"

Undiluted horseshit. Go play the race card somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

+1. We're run on the mill Cap Hill whites and although we won't send our kids to L-T (our in boundary school) we're very happy with our AA accountant, primary care doc, dentist, realtor (Bo Menkiti up in Brookland, a Harvard grad), architect, immediate neighbors etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:+1. We're run on the mill Cap Hill whites and although we won't send our kids to L-T (our in boundary school) we're very happy with our AA accountant, primary care doc, dentist, realtor (Bo Menkiti up in Brookland, a Harvard grad), architect, immediate neighbors etc.

i can't decide whether to applaud you or roll my eyes . . . .