Are Independent Schools for Black Children

[Anonymous]

Why St. Albans? what about lower school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Would the poster who keeps inserting different races into other posts please stop doing this. It does nothing to move the conversation forward.

+ 1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Anonymous





Anonymous wrote:AA children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the white kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times.


racist remark : Let's turn it around --White children are better behaved than the white children at my DCs school!! Most of the AA kids need to get smacked into reality a couple of times. Bigoted, much?

NOT AT ALL RACIST. I'M WHITE AND I FEEL THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE WHITE KIDS A MY DC'S SCHOOL ARE BAD AS SHIT. PERIOD.

I can't stop laughing Your response is probably the shortest and most honest response from anybody, black or white or whatever. It is what it is! I love it, and you are honest enough to say it. I love it! You must be a hoot at parties

The sad part is that she's paying for that school.

The sad part is no matter where she goes, she will encounter the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've posted only intermittently on this thread, because I don't think it's going anywhere productive. However, your comment is thoughtful, so I'm responding now.

Anonymous wrote:If many AA parents feel like their children are treated differently, it is incumbent upon the school to somehow examine the issue. Let's take out race since there is some hostility toward the alleged "race card." Let's insert gender. If a female student feels discrimanted against in a male-dominated school for being female, with mostly male administrators and staff, the school has an obligation to at least examine the validity of this claim and review any statistics/policies that could be evidence of such discrimination. If the school does not act in that manner, it can be inferred that the school does not value its female student body nor is it interested in fixing the issues that may exist related to gender.

I completely agree with your point that if many AA parents feel their children are being treated differently, the school should investigate and respond. Indeed, I'd go even further: If one single parent feels her child is being treated differently, the school should investigate. However, I don't expect any school to investigate until the parent raises the issue. I also wouldn't expect any school to investigate based on vague and anonymous reports on DCUM. The initial burden is on the parent to raise the issue with the school. I recognize that raising a controversial issue can be hard for some people, but IMHO the initial burden remains on the parent to act.

Also, just because a parent feels her child is being treated differently does not necessarily mean any discrimination is occurring. Sometimes it might be, and other times it might not. I'm sure we all can think of examples where simple misunderstandings or heightened sensitivities led to people inaccurately feeling mistreated. Certainly misunderstanding happen all the time, and everyone has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to her own children and to race. The school should investigate all such complaints, but that doesn't mean the school has to agree with the parent's interpretation of the situation. I'd hope that if the situation arises from a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, the school would arrange for communication among all people involved, to clear the air.

I have not seen anyone here suggest that discrimination does not occur. It happens in schools and on the street. It can be open or very subtle. It can be based on race, or dozens of other characteristics. I'd be willing to bet there's not a single person in the entire DC area who does not unfairly discriminate at least once a month. And similarly, I'd bet that everyone feels unfairly discriminated against at least once a month.

And as for the parents at the school, I am not sure there would be such backlash agaist the parents of the female students if gender happened to be the issue. I think that in progressive DC, we can look at gender honestly, but because we really don't want to deal with this ugly word racism, we won't look in the mirror. Oh, and I am not just talking non-AA people. Everyone needs to look in the mirror.

Perhaps I am naive, but I think people in DC should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues. However, I'm sure you'd agree that even if we can confront racial issues directly, they should be addressed with care. Suggesting someone is racist is an ugly insult, and will not lead to any productive discussion.

"I am not racist. I can't be. I have black friends!" *clutches purse, locks car door when a group of young black people walk by*

I don't really understand why you included this comment at the end. I don't think it adds to the discussion in any productive way. I'm sure many people could think of stereotypical (and similarly insulting) depictions of AAs too. Maybe I misunderstand your purpose.

I am not the PP but am AA. Yes, you did misunderstand the purpose of his post. Every single black person can relate at least one experience in their lives where they have incurred the suspicion of some one white/Asian/non-black while in a department stores and followed, walking/driving in non-black neighborhoods, clutching purses in elevators, people getting OFF elevators when someone black enters, ignored in stores, thought to be gang members, etc.

I agree with your comment that people should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues but it goes much, much deeper than sitting down and having a cup of joe and talking about it. It goes directly to the ingrained reasons someone white or other feels it necessary to clutch your purse when someone black is in your presence.

Recently, I had to pick up my DC from a friend's house in Potomac. It was late night and as many times as I've been to the house, I always have problems finding the house at night. Not only was I followed by neighborhood security, they stopped in front of me, forcing me to stop, and asked me where I was going. I replied "That is none of your business. This is a public street". Yes, I wanted to spew a few choice words but the survival instinct says I don't want to be shot or arrested. I could have said I'm going to Mary Smith's house, and my DC is visiting because they are friends, and I don't live out here but what a lovely neighborhood this is and you are so diligent for guarding it from people like me and would you like to see my ID to make sure I'm not a criminal?

Instead, I drove around them (with them following me) and a couple of blocks later pulled into the driveway of our friend's house with security blocking my car. My friend came out of her house thinking I might be hurt or something disastrous had happened. When I explained what was going on, she was absolutely mortified and embarrassed giving security a very strong piece of her mind and herself using a few well-deserved choice words. The difference is that while I was restrained from speaking my mind because of misplaced consequences, my white friend had no reservations about speaking her mind and damn any consequences. This is conditioning on both our parts, and I tell this story to corroborate what some AA posters have spoken about the survival instinct.

I think your post is well-meaning, truly. But I think you minimize the impact of racism (and yes, it's an ugly word but it's impact is even worse). The PP's comment about the clutching purses most definitely adds to the discussion in a positive way. If you don't understand where we have been, then you won't understand why.

Sadly, this discrimination cuts both ways. My mother was bullied and forced out of her job because she was white at a predominantly black university. She was not the only white professor that experienced horrid discrimination there.

Would you like to name this university? If what you say is true, there should be tons of stories on the internet because this is truly reverse discrimination and would get much press especially from the Limbaugh crowd.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've posted only intermittently on this thread, because I don't think it's going anywhere productive. However, your comment is thoughtful, so I'm responding now.

Anonymous wrote:If many AA parents feel like their children are treated differently, it is incumbent upon the school to somehow examine the issue. Let's take out race since there is some hostility toward the alleged "race card." Let's insert gender. If a female student feels discrimanted against in a male-dominated school for being female, with mostly male administrators and staff, the school has an obligation to at least examine the validity of this claim and review any statistics/policies that could be evidence of such discrimination. If the school does not act in that manner, it can be inferred that the school does not value its female student body nor is it interested in fixing the issues that may exist related to gender.

I completely agree with your point that if many AA parents feel their children are being treated differently, the school should investigate and respond. Indeed, I'd go even further: If one single parent feels her child is being treated differently, the school should investigate. However, I don't expect any school to investigate until the parent raises the issue. I also wouldn't expect any school to investigate based on vague and anonymous reports on DCUM. The initial burden is on the parent to raise the issue with the school. I recognize that raising a controversial issue can be hard for some people, but IMHO the initial burden remains on the parent to act.

Also, just because a parent feels her child is being treated differently does not necessarily mean any discrimination is occurring. Sometimes it might be, and other times it might not. I'm sure we all can think of examples where simple misunderstandings or heightened sensitivities led to people inaccurately feeling mistreated. Certainly misunderstanding happen all the time, and everyone has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to her own children and to race. The school should investigate all such complaints, but that doesn't mean the school has to agree with the parent's interpretation of the situation. I'd hope that if the situation arises from a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, the school would arrange for communication among all people involved, to clear the air.

I have not seen anyone here suggest that discrimination does not occur. It happens in schools and on the street. It can be open or very subtle. It can be based on race, or dozens of other characteristics. I'd be willing to bet there's not a single person in the entire DC area who does not unfairly discriminate at least once a month. And similarly, I'd bet that everyone feels unfairly discriminated against at least once a month.

And as for the parents at the school, I am not sure there would be such backlash agaist the parents of the female students if gender happened to be the issue. I think that in progressive DC, we can look at gender honestly, but because we really don't want to deal with this ugly word racism, we won't look in the mirror. Oh, and I am not just talking non-AA people. Everyone needs to look in the mirror.

Perhaps I am naive, but I think people in DC should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues. However, I'm sure you'd agree that even if we can confront racial issues directly, they should be addressed with care. Suggesting someone is racist is an ugly insult, and will not lead to any productive discussion.

"I am not racist. I can't be. I have black friends!" *clutches purse, locks car door when a group of young black people walk by*

I don't really understand why you included this comment at the end. I don't think it adds to the discussion in any productive way. I'm sure many people could think of stereotypical (and similarly insulting) depictions of AAs too. Maybe I misunderstand your purpose.

I am not the PP but am AA. Yes, you did misunderstand the purpose of his post. Every single black person can relate at least one experience in their lives where they have incurred the suspicion of some one white/Asian/non-black while in a department stores and followed, walking/driving in non-black neighborhoods, clutching purses in elevators, people getting OFF elevators when someone black enters, ignored in stores, thought to be gang members, etc.

I agree with your comment that people should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues but it goes much, much deeper than sitting down and having a cup of joe and talking about it. It goes directly to the ingrained reasons someone white or other feels it necessary to clutch your purse when someone black is in your presence.

Recently, I had to pick up my DC from a friend's house in Potomac. It was late night and as many times as I've been to the house, I always have problems finding the house at night. Not only was I followed by neighborhood security, they stopped in front of me, forcing me to stop, and asked me where I was going. I replied "That is none of your business. This is a public street". Yes, I wanted to spew a few choice words but the survival instinct says I don't want to be shot or arrested. I could have said I'm going to Mary Smith's house, and my DC is visiting because they are friends, and I don't live out here but what a lovely neighborhood this is and you are so diligent for guarding it from people like me and would you like to see my ID to make sure I'm not a criminal?

Instead, I drove around them (with them following me) and a couple of blocks later pulled into the driveway of our friend's house with security blocking my car. My friend came out of her house thinking I might be hurt or something disastrous had happened. When I explained what was going on, she was absolutely mortified and embarrassed giving security a very strong piece of her mind and herself using a few well-deserved choice words. The difference is that while I was restrained from speaking my mind because of misplaced consequences, my white friend had no reservations about speaking her mind and damn any consequences. This is conditioning on both our parts, and I tell this story to corroborate what some AA posters have spoken about the survival instinct.

I think your post is well-meaning, truly. But I think you minimize the impact of racism (and yes, it's an ugly word but it's impact is even worse). The PP's comment about the clutching purses most definitely adds to the discussion in a positive way. If you don't understand where we have been, then you won't understand why.

Sadly, this discrimination cuts both ways. My mother was bullied and forced out of her job because she was white at a predominantly black university. She was not the only white professor that experienced horrid discrimination there.

Would you like to name this university? If what you say is true, there should be tons of stories on the internet because this is truly reverse discrimination and would get much press especially from the Limbaugh crowd.

PP here. My apologies. I am not sure if this is your mother but I did find the story.

http://www.blackbluedog.com/2012/09/news/hbcu-prof-says-she-was-fired-for-being-white/

The story also states:
But as of the 2010 – 2011 fiscal year, a full 23.9% of the faculty at WSSU are white, which is a statistic that far exceeds the percentage of black professors at predominantly white universities. Many white universities have departments that have never hired a black professor at all.

Black Blue Dog is a website for conservative African Americans (yes, they do exist as evidenced by Herman Cain, Clarence Thomas, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've posted only intermittently on this thread, because I don't think it's going anywhere productive. However, your comment is thoughtful, so I'm responding now.

Anonymous wrote:If many AA parents feel like their children are treated differently, it is incumbent upon the school to somehow examine the issue. Let's take out race since there is some hostility toward the alleged "race card." Let's insert gender. If a female student feels discrimanted against in a male-dominated school for being female, with mostly male administrators and staff, the school has an obligation to at least examine the validity of this claim and review any statistics/policies that could be evidence of such discrimination. If the school does not act in that manner, it can be inferred that the school does not value its female student body nor is it interested in fixing the issues that may exist related to gender.

I completely agree with your point that if many AA parents feel their children are being treated differently, the school should investigate and respond. Indeed, I'd go even further: If one single parent feels her child is being treated differently, the school should investigate. However, I don't expect any school to investigate until the parent raises the issue. I also wouldn't expect any school to investigate based on vague and anonymous reports on DCUM. The initial burden is on the parent to raise the issue with the school. I recognize that raising a controversial issue can be hard for some people, but IMHO the initial burden remains on the parent to act.

Also, just because a parent feels her child is being treated differently does not necessarily mean any discrimination is occurring. Sometimes it might be, and other times it might not. I'm sure we all can think of examples where simple misunderstandings or heightened sensitivities led to people inaccurately feeling mistreated. Certainly misunderstanding happen all the time, and everyone has a heightened sensitivity when it comes to her own children and to race. The school should investigate all such complaints, but that doesn't mean the school has to agree with the parent's interpretation of the situation. I'd hope that if the situation arises from a misunderstanding or misinterpretation, the school would arrange for communication among all people involved, to clear the air.

I have not seen anyone here suggest that discrimination does not occur. It happens in schools and on the street. It can be open or very subtle. It can be based on race, or dozens of other characteristics. I'd be willing to bet there's not a single person in the entire DC area who does not unfairly discriminate at least once a month. And similarly, I'd bet that everyone feels unfairly discriminated against at least once a month.

And as for the parents at the school, I am not sure there would be such backlash agaist the parents of the female students if gender happened to be the issue. I think that in progressive DC, we can look at gender honestly, but because we really don't want to deal with this ugly word racism, we won't look in the mirror. Oh, and I am not just talking non-AA people. Everyone needs to look in the mirror.

Perhaps I am naive, but I think people in DC should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues. However, I'm sure you'd agree that even if we can confront racial issues directly, they should be addressed with care. Suggesting someone is racist is an ugly insult, and will not lead to any productive discussion.

"I am not racist. I can't be. I have black friends!" *clutches purse, locks car door when a group of young black people walk by*

I don't really understand why you included this comment at the end. I don't think it adds to the discussion in any productive way. I'm sure many people could think of stereotypical (and similarly insulting) depictions of AAs too. Maybe I misunderstand your purpose.

I am not the PP but am AA. Yes, you did misunderstand the purpose of his post. Every single black person can relate at least one experience in their lives where they have incurred the suspicion of some one white/Asian/non-black while in a department stores and followed, walking/driving in non-black neighborhoods, clutching purses in elevators, people getting OFF elevators when someone black enters, ignored in stores, thought to be gang members, etc.

I agree with your comment that people should be grown-up enough to deal directly with racial issues but it goes much, much deeper than sitting down and having a cup of joe and talking about it. It goes directly to the ingrained reasons someone white or other feels it necessary to clutch your purse when someone black is in your presence.

Recently, I had to pick up my DC from a friend's house in Potomac. It was late night and as many times as I've been to the house, I always have problems finding the house at night. Not only was I followed by neighborhood security, they stopped in front of me, forcing me to stop, and asked me where I was going. I replied "That is none of your business. This is a public street". Yes, I wanted to spew a few choice words but the survival instinct says I don't want to be shot or arrested. I could have said I'm going to Mary Smith's house, and my DC is visiting because they are friends, and I don't live out here but what a lovely neighborhood this is and you are so diligent for guarding it from people like me and would you like to see my ID to make sure I'm not a criminal?

Instead, I drove around them (with them following me) and a couple of blocks later pulled into the driveway of our friend's house with security blocking my car. My friend came out of her house thinking I might be hurt or something disastrous had happened. When I explained what was going on, she was absolutely mortified and embarrassed giving security a very strong piece of her mind and herself using a few well-deserved choice words. The difference is that while I was restrained from speaking my mind because of misplaced consequences, my white friend had no reservations about speaking her mind and damn any consequences. This is conditioning on both our parts, and I tell this story to corroborate what some AA posters have spoken about the survival instinct.

I think your post is well-meaning, truly. But I think you minimize the impact of racism (and yes, it's an ugly word but it's impact is even worse). The PP's comment about the clutching purses most definitely adds to the discussion in a positive way. If you don't understand where we have been, then you won't understand why.

Sadly, this discrimination cuts both ways. My mother was bullied and forced out of her job because she was white at a predominantly black university. She was not the only white professor that experienced horrid discrimination there.

Professor Shira Hedgepeth can now join the ranks of black people who have had this done at non-black institutions. She stated in an article "that she would never be whole again." Welcome to the club with those millions who have experienced discrimination. Hurts, doesn't it? No matter who does it.

[Anonymous]

How's your DC treated at his/her independent school? Do you think fairly? Yes.
Is it easier for boys than girls? Girls have a much easier time (especially in the lower grades), regardless of race, because they tend to follow rules better in general.

Which schools do a good job educating children of color? The ones with a diverse staff (AA teachers, administrators, board members, etc.) GDS, Beauvoir, STA. I've heard Sheridan does as well, despite the fact that the staff as not as diverse as they would like it to be.

I've heard varying stories some great and some horrible? Do elite blacks fair better than FA blacks?
Yes- just as elite whites/hispanic/asian kids often get more second chances, benefit of the doubt, etc. Two poorly behaved boy classmates of our child's (both white) come to mind - same teachers, same bad behavior. The board member kid's behavior was described as "sprited/great sense of humor" while the non-board parent's kid was "disruptive" and referred for outside counseling.

I know this is like talking about the elephant in the room but I really would like to hear your well thought out views. Please if you can't respond responsibly don't add your input! Just want to hear other parents perspectives of all races.

I think independent schools work very hard to be racially diverse and inclusive - it's much easier to manage than the socio-economic differences. The independent schools my children have attended purposely reach out to AA parents for PA leadership roles, board membership and other committees to ensure diverse representation. It's more of a challenge to create socio-economic diversity because independent schools are dependent upon tuition and big donors.

[Anonymous]

So there isn't equity in treatment for fa kids.

As PPs stated they direct their sons to "behave" as a survival strategy. I can imagine that it's easy to get in trouble when hanging out with wealthy friends who may encourage you to loosen up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So there isn't equity in treatment for fa kids.

As PPs stated they direct their sons to "behave" as a survival strategy. I can imagine that it's easy to get in trouble when hanging out with wealthy friends who may encourage you to loosen up.

FWIW, after several years at a local private school, I have no idea who the "FA families" are. I can think of two families who might be FA, based on where they live, but I really don't know their financial situation. On the other hand, one family has a nicer minivan than ours, so I really have no idea. So as a result, there is "equity of treatment" for FA families from me at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why St. Albans? what about lower school?

I've heard really good things from friends with AA boys there. Maybe it's something about the all-boys environment lessening social pressures, or the fact that boys might, at certain ages, be less hung up on "what do you have" "what do you wear" and more focused on "what can you do" (classroom, arts, sports). I know that in the Upper School (high school) there is a strong tradition of AA boys in the major leadership positions (prefect, vestry). Not sure what to recommend for lower school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why St. Albans? what about lower school?

I've heard really good things from friends with AA boys there. Maybe it's something about the all-boys environment lessening social pressures, or the fact that boys might, at certain ages, be less hung up on "what do you have" "what do you wear" and more focused on "what can you do" (classroom, arts, sports). I know that in the Upper School (high school) there is a strong tradition of AA boys in the major leadership positions (prefect, vestry). Not sure what to recommend for lower school.

I agree. Skip it for lower school.

For the right boy, who is focused on his interests and is capable of choosing his friends wisely it can be a great place to attend school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there isn't equity in treatment for fa kids.

As PPs stated they direct their sons to "behave" as a survival strategy. I can imagine that it's easy to get in trouble when hanging out with wealthy friends who may encourage you to loosen up.

FWIW, after several years at a local private school, I have no idea who the "FA families" are. I can think of two families who might be FA, based on where they live, but I really don't know their financial situation. On the other hand, one family has a nicer minivan than ours, so I really have no idea. So as a result, there is "equity of treatment" for FA families from me at least.

Eyes tight shut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there isn't equity in treatment for fa kids.

As PPs stated they direct their sons to "behave" as a survival strategy. I can imagine that it's easy to get in trouble when hanging out with wealthy friends who may encourage you to loosen up.

FWIW, after several years at a local private school, I have no idea who the "FA families" are. I can think of two families who might be FA, based on where they live, but I really don't know their financial situation. On the other hand, one family has a nicer minivan than ours, so I really have no idea. So as a result, there is "equity of treatment" for FA families from me at least.

Eyes tight shut.

I'm the person you're responding to. What do you mean by your comment? I don't understand. Are you trying to say I should be trying to figure out who the FA families are? I don't see how it's my business if they don't want to disclose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there isn't equity in treatment for fa kids.

As PPs stated they direct their sons to "behave" as a survival strategy. I can imagine that it's easy to get in trouble when hanging out with wealthy friends who may encourage you to loosen up.

FWIW, after several years at a local private school, I have no idea who the "FA families" are. I can think of two families who might be FA, based on where they live, but I really don't know their financial situation. On the other hand, one family has a nicer minivan than ours, so I really have no idea. So as a result, there is "equity of treatment" for FA families from me at least.

Eyes tight shut.

I'm the person you're responding to. What do you mean by your comment? I don't understand. Are you trying to say I should be trying to figure out who the FA families are? I don't see how it's my business if they don't want to disclose.

Have you looked in the drop off line? All those folks with the new Mercedes, they are the poors. All the little older cars, they are the very rich who don't want to embarass you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So there isn't equity in treatment for fa kids.

As PPs stated they direct their sons to "behave" as a survival strategy. I can imagine that it's easy to get in trouble when hanging out with wealthy friends who may encourage you to loosen up.

FWIW, after several years at a local private school, I have no idea who the "FA families" are. I can think of two families who might be FA, based on where they live, but I really don't know their financial situation. On the other hand, one family has a nicer minivan than ours, so I really have no idea. So as a result, there is "equity of treatment" for FA families from me at least.

Eyes tight shut.

I'm the person you're responding to. What do you mean by your comment? I don't understand. Are you trying to say I should be trying to figure out who the FA families are? I don't see how it's my business if they don't want to disclose.

Have you looked in the drop off line? All those folks with the new Mercedes, they are the poors. All the little older cars, they are the very rich who don't want to embarass you.

All I can do is eye roll at this remark. What a crock.