Lulumon Murder: Apple Store Employees Testimony

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can people PLEASE stop attacking each other and focus on the Lululemon case?

Have either of the Apple employees spoken publicly? I googled the woman's name out of curiosity and saw that her LinkedIn and Flickr have been disabled. I assume that's because she's being harassed. I do think what they did was unforgivable and I consider myself a 'normal' 911 caller who understands when to call - I've called handful of times including for two fairly serious car accidents, a family member having a stroke etc and would DEFINITELY have called had I heard this. They'll have to live with the fact that they could have saved Jayna.

Brittany is a monster.

Even if they had called, we don't know that it could have saved Jayna. Having read their testimony, however, it does seem as though there was a good chance of it. I cannot imagine living with that knowledge, but then people tell themselves all kinds of stories to rationalize thing they do or don't do. I told a therapist friend today that he should go find them and offer them help, because the guilt must be overwhelming.

[Anonymous]

Brittany is a monster. I am glad she is off the streets. For now, anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Actually, there are several people who have posted criticizing the woman who calls 911 frivolously. YOU are the person apparently who acts as if that means we keep our heads down and ignore actual emergencies. And that is such a misrepresentation of what I've said - and what others have said - that has crossed the line from ridiculous to offensive. It is as much b.s. as if I came on here and characterized you as advocating calling 911 for a hangnail. Please stop making sh!t up about me and other people on this board. It adds NOTHING to any thread or debate to argue the way you do. Your anecdote about your dad is not proof of anything. It is one story in a world with millions of stories. It is not, however, indicative of rhetoric skill.

I do own my statements (don't even know where you think you are going with that one), and they are correct. Little inclined to help? That's so far out of left field it isn't funny. I have called 911 for other people - in actual emergencies. A person phoning 911 about man hitting a dog or a car that appeared to be broken down is wasting our emergency resources. That should be self-evident. I am not discouraging people from helping. I am discouraging them from wasting other people's time and money when there are other ways to help.

And again, the people with the greatest responsibility to your father did nothing. Direct your anger at them, as they are far more culpable than strangers who might or might not have seen your father, given that you don't even know if they did notice anything strange about him or not.

Lady, you take care of your own anger, and I'll direct mine wherever appropriate. A specific example was given of a woman on the roadside in questionable need of assistance and several posts followed that saying MYOB, it's not an emergency - to that specific incidence, which is very much like my father's. Someone else (not me) pointed out that how do we know she DIDN'T need help, and plenty of people were saying "what, are we supposed to be on high alert and know the difference all the time?" Well, no. The point is, you simply err on the side of CALLING when there is any question, because that is the right thing to do.

How this has to do with the thread, btw, is that this whole thing strikes a HUGE chord for me. Maybe if someone had called earlier, (in fact, probably) my dad would have his hearing back (it's gone, thanks to the brain bleed). Maybe we could understand his slurred speech better. Maybe he would not be on antidepressants and dozens of other pills to help him deal with his life, which is not what it once was. And maybe, if someone had called about Jayna, she would still be alive. We don't really know for sure. But do you REALLY want to try and keep scoring points off of me? Someone failed to call 911, probably because, like the mentality many people are describing on this board, they weren't sure it was a problem, didn't see it as THEIR problem, and probably there were some folks who simply thought calling 911 about "a potentially drunk / crazy man" on the side of the street was not a 911 priority.

There is a huge mountain of difference between calling 911 for a hangnail and calling 911 in some of the questionable scenarios outlined here. Beating a dog is a crime in progress. Others have stated that folks in a smoking overheated car may need help. You never know. 9 out of 10 times, the call might be overkill. But my point is that it is MUCH better to call when in doubt, because you could save someone's life.

So back the fuck off with your "your dad's story" is one in a million stories and your bizarre (and off base) critique of my arguing skills. I didn't share my dad's story to impress some fuckwit like you with my "rhetorical skill." My point, since you're too goddamn stupid to read it, is that the woman calling 911 "frivolously" in your mind would have saved my dad from major problems that nearly cost him his life. What the fuck is wrong with you that you don't get that? And what about that is not relevant to this thread? I'm giving you an example (another way to look at anecdote, and since I don't claim my dad is a population, simply an instance, I don't think you know what anecdotal evidence means anyway) of why it's important to call whenever in question. Please, go away. You are truly, truly terrible and nobody has to make anything up about you to see that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Haven't had a chance to read all the comments so what I'm saying may be a repeat of what others have said.

I have also been haunted by the testimony of the Apple employees and want to condemn them but rather than spending a lot of time condemning them, we should use this incident to remind ourselves to err on the side of caution in the event something like this happens to us. Sometimes it's hard to know what to do and it's difficult to pick up the phone and call 911. But we should call and deal with the possibility of embarrassment later if it was nothing.

Let's all promise ourselves that we will call.

I'm guessing there's one poster in this thread who won't be taking the pledge. That individual only calls 911 when he or she deems the situation to be an emergency.

Apparently you haven't read the thread. No one here has said that they don't think you should call 911 when you hear an altercation - which was the case for the Apple employees. The most anyone has said is that it isn't fair to judge them harshly because you have the benefit of hindsight, and it is easy from your armchair to say what should have been done. Several people have jumped on the woman who said she called 911 for the broken down car and man hitting the dog. There is a huge difference among these situations, so stop putting words in other people's mouths. It is tiresome.

I notice you didn't mention how people also jumped all over her for calling 911 when she saw a woman on the side of the street who appeared off and in need of help. Many of you thought it was not appropriate to call in that instance. I guess you're the same type of people who just assumed my sick dad was just some drunk on the street when he had his brain bleed.

Better safe than sorry - better to make an unnecessary call than not to make the call. Save a life, not your pride. And if 911 is really struggling, then maybe we should demand more resources for it.

Wow! She was right one third of the time! That is a failing grade.

As for your father, why are you jumping on the strangers that you assume didn't help him? He spent the entire day at work, and not one of his co-workers did anything. Geez. That is what is appalling about your story.

Her failing grade would have saved my dad's life, but your decision tree would not have. In fact, he spent the entire day among coworkers but not people who knew well. Yes, they should have called. So should the people who saw him walking in the middle of the street, looking dazed. Instead they, like you, just went along their own merry way, minding their own merry business.

I'm jumping on strangers for your OWN STATEMENTS about how little inclined to help you are, and even worse, your statements discouraging people who are doing the right thing, which you are NOT, from continuing the correct response. You're getting jumped on for your own statements, own them if you must, but please do not discourage others from helping. You are wrong, wrong, wrong on this issue.

Actually, there are several people who have posted criticizing the woman who calls 911 frivolously. YOU are the person apparently who acts as if that means we keep our heads down and ignore actual emergencies. And that is such a misrepresentation of what I've said - and what others have said - that has crossed the line from ridiculous to offensive. It is as much b.s. as if I came on here and characterized you as advocating calling 911 for a hangnail. Please stop making sh!t up about me and other people on this board. It adds NOTHING to any thread or debate to argue the way you do. Your anecdote about your dad is not proof of anything. It is one story in a world with millions of stories. It is not, however, indicative of rhetoric skill.

I do own my statements (don't even know where you think you are going with that one), and they are correct. Little inclined to help? That's so far out of left field it isn't funny. I have called 911 for other people - in actual emergencies. A person phoning 911 about man hitting a dog or a car that appeared to be broken down is wasting our emergency resources. That should be self-evident. I am not discouraging people from helping. I am discouraging them from wasting other people's time and money when there are other ways to help.

And again, the people with the greatest responsibility to your father did nothing. Direct your anger at them, as they are far more culpable than strangers who might or might not have seen your father, given that you don't even know if they did notice anything strange about him or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Actually, there are several people who have posted criticizing the woman who calls 911 rivolously. YOU are the person apparently who acts as if that means we keep our heads down and ignore actual emergencies. And that is such a misrepresentation of what I've said - and what others have said - that has crossed the line from ridiculous to offensive. It is as much b.s. as if I came on here and characterized you as advocating calling 911 for a hangnail. Please stop making sh!t up about me and other people on this board. It adds NOTHING to any thread or debate to argue the way you do. Your anecdote about your dad is not proof of anything. It is one story in a world with millions of stories. It is not, however, indicative of rhetoric skill.

I do own my statements (don't even know where you think you are going with that one), and they are correct. Little inclined to help? That's so far out of left field it isn't funny. I have called 911 for other people - in actual emergencies. A person phoning 911 about man hitting a dog or a car that appeared to be broken down is wasting our emergency resources. That should be self-evident. I am not discouraging people from helping. I am discouraging them from wasting other people's time and money when there are other ways to help.

And again, the people with the greatest responsibility to your father did nothing. Direct your anger at them, as they are far more culpable than strangers who might or might not have seen your father, given that you don't even know if they did notice anything strange about him or not.

Lady, you take care of your own anger, and I'll direct mine wherever appropriate. A specific example was given of a woman on the roadside in questionable need of assistance and several posts followed that saying MYOB, it's not an emergency - to that specific incidence, which is very much like my father's. Someone else (not me) pointed out that how do we know she DIDN'T need help, and plenty of people were saying "what, are we supposed to be on high alert and know the difference all the time?" Well, no. The point is, you simply err on the side of CALLING when there is any question, because that is the right thing to do.

How this has to do with the thread, btw, is that this whole thing strikes a HUGE chord for me. Maybe if someone had called earlier, (in fact, probably) my dad would have his hearing back (it's gone, thanks to the brain bleed). Maybe we could understand his slurred speech better. Maybe he would not be on antidepressants and dozens of other pills to help him deal with his life, which is not what it once was. And maybe, if someone had called about Jayna, she would still be alive. We don't really know for sure. But do you REALLY want to try and keep scoring points off of me? Someone failed to call 911, probably because, like the mentality many people are describing on this board, they weren't sure it was a problem, didn't see it as THEIR problem, and probably there were some folks who simply thought calling 911 about "a potentially drunk / crazy man" on the side of the street was not a 911 priority.

There is a huge mountain of difference between calling 911 for a hangnail and calling 911 in some of the questionable scenarios outlined here. Beating a dog is a crime in progress. Others have stated that folks in a smoking overheated car may need help. You never know. 9 out of 10 times, the call might be overkill. But my point is that it is MUCH better to call when in doubt, because you could save someone's life.

So back the fuck off with your "your dad's story" is one in a million stories and your bizarre (and off base) critique of my arguing skills. I didn't share my dad's story to impress some fuckwit like you with my "rhetorical skill." My point, since you're too goddamn stupid to read it, is that the woman calling 911 "frivolously" in your mind would have saved my dad from major problems that nearly cost him his life. What the fuck is wrong with you that you don't get that? And what about that is not relevant to this thread? I'm giving you an example (another way to look at anecdote, and since I don't claim my dad is a population, simply an instance, I don't think you know what anecdotal evidence means anyway) of why it's important to call whenever in question. Please, go away. You are truly, truly terrible and nobody has to make anything up about you to see that.
[/quote

Actually, I am not angry but bemused by the crap you spew. And I refuse to lower myself to your level by calling you names and cursing at you. Heck, I haven't even had to willfully misrepresent your point of view.

But can you ever respond without making crap up to try to win your point? The woman didn't say the man was beating his dog. The connotation of "beating" is far more serious than "hitting." And even then, the MoCo pamphlet cited earlier clearly says not to call about endangered animals. Really, each subsequent post in which you become more and more angry and hysterical, indicates that you lack the ability to think logically. Winning on the merits is far more satisfying than browbeating and name calling in an attempt to shout others into submission. You should try being a little more dispassionate. Your blood pressure would thank you.

Again, I am very sorry about your dad. But also again, the co-workers who did NOTHING are really far more to blame, especially since your father had apparently been behaving oddly all day. By the end of the day, most of the damage was already done. The earlier the medical intervention the better, as you probablyknow. I do hope he makes a full recovery for your family's sake.

[Anonymous]

"
Again, I am very sorry about your dad. But also again, the co-workers who did NOTHING are really far more to blame, especially since your father had apparently been behaving oddly all day. By the end of the day, most of the damage was already done. The earlier the medical intervention the better, as you probablyknow. I do hope he makes a full recovery for your family's sake. "

Wow. You are not very sorry about my dad nor do you have any authority to guess whether or not my father's damage happened at hour 10 of the brain bleed or hour 21. Are you KIDDING me with that? You think it's okay to try and imply that you can possibly know when a man's injuries occurred by diagnosing a partial story that you've heard over the internet and reassure me that those who saw him between 7am and 3 PM could have helped him, but from 4PM to 10PM, most of the damage had already to blame? Holy crap, you think you can decide, via remote, who is MORE TO BLAME for not helping my father? Holy shit!

You are a very strange and sad person on the internet who sees this as a game of one-up-manship and not a discussion of life and death of someone close to a poster sharing an honest story. I'm going to stop engaging with you in the hopes that you will go away. Do some self-reflecting, lady. You're not nice or correct.

[Anonymous]

PP you are batshit crazy. Time to disengage. And seek therapy.

[Anonymous]

I hope you do stop engaging with me. You had posted before about how earlier intervention might have prevented some of your father's more devastating injuries. I agreed with you, and you attacked me for that? I hate saying this, because it sounds so condescending, but I sincerely hope you are seeing a competent therapist to deal with your anger.

My father had an aneuryism. My mother had a stroke. In both cases, early intervention may have saved their lives. I am not diagnosing when your father's damage occurred, but stating the obvious that early intervention is better.

I can tell that you are devastated by your father's condition. Again, I hope he makes a full recovery. It took my mother many months to recover from her stroke, and it is a hard road for all of you to have to travel. Good luck to you, your mom, and especially your father.

[Anonymous]

PP: "calling 911 for a hangnail" - that is my former neighbors! Talk about a waste of resources. But, they were not big on common sense and were often witnessed doing weird things. A damn shame.

If there is a health concern, obviously call 911!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:anyone read the Post today, Petula Dvorak's piece on this issue? Those two employees must be getting harrassed to no end.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/whats-scarier-the-slaying-or-the-bystanders-who-heard-and-did-nothing/2011/10/31/gIQA9y2tZM_story.html

Here is the link to Dvorak's op-ed. Nothing really new there, it echos many of the same sentiments in this thread (including the public comments on the article).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP you are batshit crazy. Time to disengage. And seek therapy.

The PP may need therapy; plenty of people can benefit from therapy--but I don't think she's "batshit crazy" at all. She's been trying to explain why she thinks it's important to call 911 when we see a situation that we think might result in harm to someone. To give an example, she related a very personal story about her dad and how his outcome might have been different if someone had made the call. The callousness of some people posting here is appalling, as is their purposeful trivializing of what's been said. Nonetheless, I'm grateful that it's not the majority. To me, calling to report incidents on the interstate that could result in accidents at high speeds or caring enough to call when we see someone who needs help is not a waste of resources. We need more people in this world to show concern for one another. It's sad to see those who are so jaded and cynical that they rationalize their coldness.

[Anonymous]

Once, my sister and I were driving to our dad's house 4 hours away when our car broke down on the side of the interstate. We started walking to the next exit to call AAA (pre-cell phone days!). A state trooper saw us and pulled over to help. He told us that any car stopped or any person walking on the side of a busy road or highway is an emergency and warrants a 911 call, because of the potential danger to the walkers and to other drivers. So there you have it straight from law enforcement: anyone on the side of a busy highway is worth a call to 911, whether they look mentally ill or completely sane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP you are batshit crazy. Time to disengage. And seek therapy.

The PP may need therapy; plenty of people can benefit from therapy--but I don't think she's "batshit crazy" at all. She's been trying to explain why she thinks it's important to call 911 when we see a situation that we think might result in harm to someone. To give an example, she related a very personal story about her dad and how his outcome might have been different if someone had made the call. The callousness of some people posting here is appalling, as is their purposeful trivializing of what's been said. Nonetheless, I'm grateful that it's not the majority. To me, calling to report incidents on the interstate that could result in accidents at high speeds or caring enough to call when we see someone who needs help is not a waste of resources. We need more people in this world to show concern for one another. It's sad to see those who are so jaded and cynical that they rationalize their coldness.

I agree that there are too many people who don't show concerns for one another. However, the pp really does seem unhinged. She is taking fairly innocuous comments and blowing them way out of proportion. That's just whack.