DC area law schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. For example, I just looked at Cravath's website. At least 32 current associates are from "below" Georgtown. BYU, Ohio State, Syracuse, Buffalo, etc. And there aren't a lot of Biglaw firms more prestigious and selective than Cravath.

Maybe you heard of connections and social credits.

Honestly you people are just relentless, ridiculous and clueless. There’s no way you work in Biglaw.

Cravath did not hire 32 graduates of second tier law schools with subpar credentials because of “connections and social credits.” They hired them because they excelled in their law schools and Cravath needs the bodies.

Maybe cravath hired them as laterals. Easier to be hired from non top 14 school after a few years then straight out of law school. When I was in law school. cravath didn’t even hire people not high enough in class from top 14.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, The current USNWR rankings are
Georgetown 14 (tied with others)
GW and Mason tied at 31 (with several others, including W&M)
Catholic 71 (tied)
American 104

I went to AU law when it was ranked in the top 50 and liked it, have had good jobs since graduation. But it was outrageously expensive then and seems to be so now. I can’t fathom what it has done to fall so far in the rankings.

If I had it to do all over again and wanted to be in this area, I would live in VA and go to Mason law school. Well ranked and a lot less expensive.

Yeah, what's going on at AU Law?

Likely nothing is "going on at AU Law," the rankings have never meant much beyond top 15 or so and they have shifted like crazy for many, many schools in recent history, and usually for no obvious reason. I attended Tulane when it was just inside the first tier at 40 and now it's 78. Nothing "going on" (although there were some issues when Katrina hit, that was over 20 years ago).

LOL. The "first tier" stops way short of no. 40.

Not when I went to law school it didn't. It referred to the top 50, not the top 14 like now.

When did you go to law school? Fifty years ago?

No, not 50 years ago.

When did you go to law school? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Never. You’re one of the mommies, right? Obsessing over things like this because you want your kid to go to law school? Yep. That’s what I thought.

DP
I went to law school 30 years (been practicing ever since) and I would not recommend my kid go to law school if they couldn't go to a pretty good one and top 50 ain't it.
Top 10 maybe top 20,but not top 50

I agree. I went to law school 25 years ago (at T10), and I would have the same advice for my kids.

I’m surprised that you both say this. I am also a practicing lawyer for 30 plus years, as is my spouse, as are many friends, and of course colleagues. I’ve worked in big law and in house, and know many attorneys well who have worked in both areas plus government, nonprofits, smaller firms, and left the law entirely. I’m sure your circles are similar.

But I have the opposite view as you do. The more experienced I am, the more I encounter attorneys in senior positions who have graduated from a variety of law schools. It’s a big world out there! I see the obsession with T14 schools usually at mid level associates and below (probably because they are trying to distinguish themselves). Those with more experience realize that there is a lot more to being strong in one’s field beyond where they went to law school. Many attorneys from top schools just don’t have it or haven’t yet found their niche, and conversely many great attorneys graduated from GW, American, Fordham, so on.

I do find that I can usually tell in meetings when someone is/has been a practicing attorney (regardless of the school) because they approach the matter in an analytic way. another saying that non-lawyers don’t do that or that all lawyers do, but there is a consistency.

I’d discourage my own kids from going to law school entirely, but that’s a different post

Both DH and I are lawyers and would not want either of our 3 DC to go to law school. But not going to T14 will limit where you end up. DH says that at his big law firm, they do not recruit anywhere below Georgetown. There are absolutely no grads or lawyers from non top law schools except for a few rain making partners who have a chip on their shoulder but went to a lower ranked law school and are only at the firm because of they business they bring in their particular niche. And you can tell by tier of firm, how analytical the lawyers are. DH has worked at several big law firms in the span of 30 years and has noticed quality of associates declines with reputation of firm, which is really reputation of law schools they came from.

There is not a single large firm in any major market where there are "no grads or lawyers from non stop law schools" other than rainmakers. Zero. None. Not in DC, not in NYC, not in LA, not in Chicago. Nowhere. The demand for associates in Biglaw exceeds the supply of T14 graduates, requiring that EVERY SINGLE FIRM dip a little lower.

I'm not saying that you're better off attending a T14, but you absolutely can get a job at ANY major law firm in the United States coming out of a lower ranked one. Yes, you will have to have done well, often extraordinarily well. But it can be done and IS being done.

Prove me wrong. Provide a link to a Biglaw firm without a single associate who graduated from a law school below Georgetown. I'll wait.

This is not true.

Of course it is, muffin. I know multiple Biglaw attorneys in Phoenix that went to law school at Arizona State or the University of Arizona.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here. For example, I just looked at Cravath's website. At least 32 current associates are from "below" Georgtown. BYU, Ohio State, Syracuse, Buffalo, etc. And there aren't a lot of Biglaw firms more prestigious and selective than Cravath.

Maybe you heard of connections and social credits.

Honestly you people are just relentless, ridiculous and clueless. There’s no way you work in Biglaw.

Cravath did not hire 32 graduates of second tier law schools with subpar credentials because of “connections and social credits.” They hired them because they excelled in their law schools and Cravath needs the bodies.

Maybe cravath hired them as laterals. Easier to be hired from non top 14 school after a few years then straight out of law school. When I was in law school. cravath didn’t even hire people not high enough in class from top 14.

We've been through this already. Cravath doesn't do a lot of lateral hiring. It's inconsistent with their model.

And yes, in decades past Cravath and other elite law firms hired a lot fewer grads from the non T14. That's changed for the simple reason that law firms are much bigger now than when you were in law school--but law school classes are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, The current USNWR rankings are
Georgetown 14 (tied with others)
GW and Mason tied at 31 (with several others, including W&M)
Catholic 71 (tied)
American 104

I went to AU law when it was ranked in the top 50 and liked it, have had good jobs since graduation. But it was outrageously expensive then and seems to be so now. I can’t fathom what it has done to fall so far in the rankings.

If I had it to do all over again and wanted to be in this area, I would live in VA and go to Mason law school. Well ranked and a lot less expensive.

Yeah, what's going on at AU Law?

Likely nothing is "going on at AU Law," the rankings have never meant much beyond top 15 or so and they have shifted like crazy for many, many schools in recent history, and usually for no obvious reason. I attended Tulane when it was just inside the first tier at 40 and now it's 78. Nothing "going on" (although there were some issues when Katrina hit, that was over 20 years ago).

LOL. The "first tier" stops way short of no. 40.

Not when I went to law school it didn't. It referred to the top 50, not the top 14 like now.

When did you go to law school? Fifty years ago?

No, not 50 years ago.

When did you go to law school? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Never. You’re one of the mommies, right? Obsessing over things like this because you want your kid to go to law school? Yep. That’s what I thought.

DP
I went to law school 30 years (been practicing ever since) and I would not recommend my kid go to law school if they couldn't go to a pretty good one and top 50 ain't it.
Top 10 maybe top 20,but not top 50

I agree. I went to law school 25 years ago (at T10), and I would have the same advice for my kids.

I’m surprised that you both say this. I am also a practicing lawyer for 30 plus years, as is my spouse, as are many friends, and of course colleagues. I’ve worked in big law and in house, and know many attorneys well who have worked in both areas plus government, nonprofits, smaller firms, and left the law entirely. I’m sure your circles are similar.

But I have the opposite view as you do. The more experienced I am, the more I encounter attorneys in senior positions who have graduated from a variety of law schools. It’s a big world out there! I see the obsession with T14 schools usually at mid level associates and below (probably because they are trying to distinguish themselves). Those with more experience realize that there is a lot more to being strong in one’s field beyond where they went to law school. Many attorneys from top schools just don’t have it or haven’t yet found their niche, and conversely many great attorneys graduated from GW, American, Fordham, so on.

I do find that I can usually tell in meetings when someone is/has been a practicing attorney (regardless of the school) because they approach the matter in an analytic way. another saying that non-lawyers don’t do that or that all lawyers do, but there is a consistency.

I’d discourage my own kids from going to law school entirely, but that’s a different post

Both DH and I are lawyers and would not want either of our 3 DC to go to law school. But not going to T14 will limit where you end up. DH says that at his big law firm, they do not recruit anywhere below Georgetown. There are absolutely no grads or lawyers from non top law schools except for a few rain making partners who have a chip on their shoulder but went to a lower ranked law school and are only at the firm because of they business they bring in their particular niche. And you can tell by tier of firm, how analytical the lawyers are. DH has worked at several big law firms in the span of 30 years and has noticed quality of associates declines with reputation of firm, which is really reputation of law schools they came from.

There is not a single large firm in any major market where there are "no grads or lawyers from non stop law schools" other than rainmakers. Zero. None. Not in DC, not in NYC, not in LA, not in Chicago. Nowhere. The demand for associates in Biglaw exceeds the supply of T14 graduates, requiring that EVERY SINGLE FIRM dip a little lower.

I'm not saying that you're better off attending a T14, but you absolutely can get a job at ANY major law firm in the United States coming out of a lower ranked one. Yes, you will have to have done well, often extraordinarily well. But it can be done and IS being done.

Prove me wrong. Provide a link to a Biglaw firm without a single associate who graduated from a law school below Georgetown. I'll wait.

This is not true.

Of course it is, muffin. I know multiple Biglaw attorneys in Phoenix that went to law school at Arizona State or the University of Arizona.

In fairness, Phoenix is a second tier law market that doesn't attract the same quality law grad as New York, DC, Chicago, LA, SF etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, The current USNWR rankings are
Georgetown 14 (tied with others)
GW and Mason tied at 31 (with several others, including W&M)
Catholic 71 (tied)
American 104

I went to AU law when it was ranked in the top 50 and liked it, have had good jobs since graduation. But it was outrageously expensive then and seems to be so now. I can’t fathom what it has done to fall so far in the rankings.

If I had it to do all over again and wanted to be in this area, I would live in VA and go to Mason law school. Well ranked and a lot less expensive.

Yeah, what's going on at AU Law?

Likely nothing is "going on at AU Law," the rankings have never meant much beyond top 15 or so and they have shifted like crazy for many, many schools in recent history, and usually for no obvious reason. I attended Tulane when it was just inside the first tier at 40 and now it's 78. Nothing "going on" (although there were some issues when Katrina hit, that was over 20 years ago).

LOL. The "first tier" stops way short of no. 40.

Not when I went to law school it didn't. It referred to the top 50, not the top 14 like now.

When did you go to law school? Fifty years ago?

No, not 50 years ago.

When did you go to law school? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Never. You’re one of the mommies, right? Obsessing over things like this because you want your kid to go to law school? Yep. That’s what I thought.

DP
I went to law school 30 years (been practicing ever since) and I would not recommend my kid go to law school if they couldn't go to a pretty good one and top 50 ain't it.
Top 10 maybe top 20,but not top 50

I agree. I went to law school 25 years ago (at T10), and I would have the same advice for my kids.

I’m surprised that you both say this. I am also a practicing lawyer for 30 plus years, as is my spouse, as are many friends, and of course colleagues. I’ve worked in big law and in house, and know many attorneys well who have worked in both areas plus government, nonprofits, smaller firms, and left the law entirely. I’m sure your circles are similar.

But I have the opposite view as you do. The more experienced I am, the more I encounter attorneys in senior positions who have graduated from a variety of law schools. It’s a big world out there! I see the obsession with T14 schools usually at mid level associates and below (probably because they are trying to distinguish themselves). Those with more experience realize that there is a lot more to being strong in one’s field beyond where they went to law school. Many attorneys from top schools just don’t have it or haven’t yet found their niche, and conversely many great attorneys graduated from GW, American, Fordham, so on.

I do find that I can usually tell in meetings when someone is/has been a practicing attorney (regardless of the school) because they approach the matter in an analytic way. another saying that non-lawyers don’t do that or that all lawyers do, but there is a consistency.

I’d discourage my own kids from going to law school entirely, but that’s a different post

Both DH and I are lawyers and would not want either of our 3 DC to go to law school. But not going to T14 will limit where you end up. DH says that at his big law firm, they do not recruit anywhere below Georgetown. There are absolutely no grads or lawyers from non top law schools except for a few rain making partners who have a chip on their shoulder but went to a lower ranked law school and are only at the firm because of they business they bring in their particular niche. And you can tell by tier of firm, how analytical the lawyers are. DH has worked at several big law firms in the span of 30 years and has noticed quality of associates declines with reputation of firm, which is really reputation of law schools they came from.

There is not a single large firm in any major market where there are "no grads or lawyers from non stop law schools" other than rainmakers. Zero. None. Not in DC, not in NYC, not in LA, not in Chicago. Nowhere. The demand for associates in Biglaw exceeds the supply of T14 graduates, requiring that EVERY SINGLE FIRM dip a little lower.

I'm not saying that you're better off attending a T14, but you absolutely can get a job at ANY major law firm in the United States coming out of a lower ranked one. Yes, you will have to have done well, often extraordinarily well. But it can be done and IS being done.

Prove me wrong. Provide a link to a Biglaw firm without a single associate who graduated from a law school below Georgetown. I'll wait.

This is not true.

Of course it is, muffin. I know multiple Biglaw attorneys in Phoenix that went to law school at Arizona State or the University of Arizona.

In fairness, Phoenix is a second tier law market that doesn't attract the same quality law grad as New York, DC, Chicago, LA, SF etc.

I'll gladly take a second tier market to start at $160k-$180k with a significantly lower cost of living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, The current USNWR rankings are
Georgetown 14 (tied with others)
GW and Mason tied at 31 (with several others, including W&M)
Catholic 71 (tied)
American 104

I went to AU law when it was ranked in the top 50 and liked it, have had good jobs since graduation. But it was outrageously expensive then and seems to be so now. I can’t fathom what it has done to fall so far in the rankings.

If I had it to do all over again and wanted to be in this area, I would live in VA and go to Mason law school. Well ranked and a lot less expensive.

Yeah, what's going on at AU Law?

Likely nothing is "going on at AU Law," the rankings have never meant much beyond top 15 or so and they have shifted like crazy for many, many schools in recent history, and usually for no obvious reason. I attended Tulane when it was just inside the first tier at 40 and now it's 78. Nothing "going on" (although there were some issues when Katrina hit, that was over 20 years ago).

LOL. The "first tier" stops way short of no. 40.

Not when I went to law school it didn't. It referred to the top 50, not the top 14 like now.

When did you go to law school? Fifty years ago?

No, not 50 years ago.

When did you go to law school? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Never. You’re one of the mommies, right? Obsessing over things like this because you want your kid to go to law school? Yep. That’s what I thought.

DP
I went to law school 30 years (been practicing ever since) and I would not recommend my kid go to law school if they couldn't go to a pretty good one and top 50 ain't it.
Top 10 maybe top 20,but not top 50

I agree. I went to law school 25 years ago (at T10), and I would have the same advice for my kids.

I’m surprised that you both say this. I am also a practicing lawyer for 30 plus years, as is my spouse, as are many friends, and of course colleagues. I’ve worked in big law and in house, and know many attorneys well who have worked in both areas plus government, nonprofits, smaller firms, and left the law entirely. I’m sure your circles are similar.

But I have the opposite view as you do. The more experienced I am, the more I encounter attorneys in senior positions who have graduated from a variety of law schools. It’s a big world out there! I see the obsession with T14 schools usually at mid level associates and below (probably because they are trying to distinguish themselves). Those with more experience realize that there is a lot more to being strong in one’s field beyond where they went to law school. Many attorneys from top schools just don’t have it or haven’t yet found their niche, and conversely many great attorneys graduated from GW, American, Fordham, so on.

I do find that I can usually tell in meetings when someone is/has been a practicing attorney (regardless of the school) because they approach the matter in an analytic way. another saying that non-lawyers don’t do that or that all lawyers do, but there is a consistency.

I’d discourage my own kids from going to law school entirely, but that’s a different post

Both DH and I are lawyers and would not want either of our 3 DC to go to law school. But not going to T14 will limit where you end up. DH says that at his big law firm, they do not recruit anywhere below Georgetown. There are absolutely no grads or lawyers from non top law schools except for a few rain making partners who have a chip on their shoulder but went to a lower ranked law school and are only at the firm because of they business they bring in their particular niche. And you can tell by tier of firm, how analytical the lawyers are. DH has worked at several big law firms in the span of 30 years and has noticed quality of associates declines with reputation of firm, which is really reputation of law schools they came from.

There is not a single large firm in any major market where there are "no grads or lawyers from non stop law schools" other than rainmakers. Zero. None. Not in DC, not in NYC, not in LA, not in Chicago. Nowhere. The demand for associates in Biglaw exceeds the supply of T14 graduates, requiring that EVERY SINGLE FIRM dip a little lower.

I'm not saying that you're better off attending a T14, but you absolutely can get a job at ANY major law firm in the United States coming out of a lower ranked one. Yes, you will have to have done well, often extraordinarily well. But it can be done and IS being done.

Prove me wrong. Provide a link to a Biglaw firm without a single associate who graduated from a law school below Georgetown. I'll wait.

This is not true.

Of course it is, muffin. I know multiple Biglaw attorneys in Phoenix that went to law school at Arizona State or the University of Arizona.

In fairness, Phoenix is a second tier law market that doesn't attract the same quality law grad as New York, DC, Chicago, LA, SF etc.

I'll gladly take a second tier market to start at $160k-$180k with a significantly lower cost of living.

Well, good for you but that's a different issue. The bottom line is that very few of the truly elite Biglaw firms have offices in Phoenix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Above the Law Rankings are heavily weighted by outcomes—e.g. employment after graduation—and GMU is not ranked in the top 50. It wasn’t ranked in the top 50 last year either.

Georgetown, GWU, William & Mary and Howard are all ranked both years.

https://abovethelaw.com/2025/06/2025-top-50-law-school-rankings/

No one cites Above the Law for law school rankings. No one. It’s USNWR, and top 14, that everyone talks about, where Scalia is ranked 31z https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/george-mason-university-03159

Right. GMU is ranked 31st but still does a relatively shitty job of getting its grads top jobs. That's why I cited ATL. For that metric only.

If you had bothered to google “Scalia job placement “ before shooting off your mouth, AI could have instructed you thusly:

Antonin Scalia Law School (George Mason University) boasts strong employment outcomes, with 97.5% of the Class of 2023 employed, primarily in private practice ($149,784 median salary) and the public sector ($74,672 median salary). The school excels in judicial clerkships, securing 102 for 2025-2028 terms, and leverages a strong DC-area network and focus on law


Employment and Salary Highlights
High Employment Rate: 99.4% of the Class of 2023 were employed or in graduate studies shortly after graduation, according to the NALP report.

Employment Sectors (Class of 2023): 49.1% entered the private sector, while 50.9% entered the public sector, including government and public interest.
Salaries: The median salary for the private sector was $149,784, while the median for the public sector was $74,672.
Location: Most graduates are employed in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.


Key Opportunities and Clerkships
Clerkships: Strong performance in placing graduates in federal and state courts, with 72 federal clerkships (including 31 U.S. Courts of Appeals) secured for the 2025-2028 terms.
Law & Economics Focus: The school's emphasis on the intersection of law and economics provides unique networking opportunities through the Law & Economics Center.

Networking and Recruitment: Active Fall and Spring recruiting programs are available, with opportunities to connect with top law firms and government agencies, note users on Reddit.

Career Services: The Career and Academic Services Office provides resources for job placement, including counseling and on-campus interviews.

Networking: The school connects students with employers through various, often intimate, settings.

For more detailed data, you can view the official 2023 NALP report and employment statistics on the Scalia Law School website.

That’s puffery on their own website.

No, it’s not. it’s AI from a simple google: Scalia Law jobs. You could have checked that yourself before posting.

Yea, AI generated it largely from Scalia's own website. That's how AI works. Duh.

DP Please show me how it’s wrong - I’ve taught and recruited there. Looks right to me. It has 30 students right now in federal clerkships and one on SCOTUS. Very few law schools can say that.

Ok, here's how you're wrong. According to the most recently available statistics -- its 509 employment summary for 2024 -[b]- it only has 15 grads in federal clerkship.[url] Not 30. You're including state and other court clerkships, which don't carry nearly the same prestige.

https://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/career/abaemploymentsummary2024.pdf

Wrong. Read here. 31 graduates on federal courts of appeals this year, 1 on SCOTUS, 20+ in the federal district courts, and even more on article 1 federal courts. Only 20 out of 101 with clerkships clerking at the state level. https://www.law.gmu.edu/news/2025/federal-and-state-judiciary-turn-to-scalia-law-for-talented-and-highly-qualified-law-clerks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The Above the Law Rankings are heavily weighted by outcomes—e.g. employment after graduation—and GMU is not ranked in the top 50. It wasn’t ranked in the top 50 last year either.

Georgetown, GWU, William & Mary and Howard are all ranked both years.

https://abovethelaw.com/2025/06/2025-top-50-law-school-rankings/

No one cites Above the Law for law school rankings. No one. It’s USNWR, and top 14, that everyone talks about, where Scalia is ranked 31z https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/george-mason-university-03159

Right. GMU is ranked 31st but still does a relatively shitty job of getting its grads top jobs. That's why I cited ATL. For that metric only.

If you had bothered to google “Scalia job placement “ before shooting off your mouth, AI could have instructed you thusly:

Antonin Scalia Law School (George Mason University) boasts strong employment outcomes, with 97.5% of the Class of 2023 employed, primarily in private practice ($149,784 median salary) and the public sector ($74,672 median salary). The school excels in judicial clerkships, securing 102 for 2025-2028 terms, and leverages a strong DC-area network and focus on law


Employment and Salary Highlights
High Employment Rate: 99.4% of the Class of 2023 were employed or in graduate studies shortly after graduation, according to the NALP report.

Employment Sectors (Class of 2023): 49.1% entered the private sector, while 50.9% entered the public sector, including government and public interest.
Salaries: The median salary for the private sector was $149,784, while the median for the public sector was $74,672.
Location: Most graduates are employed in the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area.


Key Opportunities and Clerkships
Clerkships: Strong performance in placing graduates in federal and state courts, with 72 federal clerkships (including 31 U.S. Courts of Appeals) secured for the 2025-2028 terms.
Law & Economics Focus: The school's emphasis on the intersection of law and economics provides unique networking opportunities through the Law & Economics Center.

Networking and Recruitment: Active Fall and Spring recruiting programs are available, with opportunities to connect with top law firms and government agencies, note users on Reddit.

Career Services: The Career and Academic Services Office provides resources for job placement, including counseling and on-campus interviews.

Networking: The school connects students with employers through various, often intimate, settings.

For more detailed data, you can view the official 2023 NALP report and employment statistics on the Scalia Law School website.

That’s puffery on their own website.

No, it’s not. it’s AI from a simple google: Scalia Law jobs. You could have checked that yourself before posting.

Yea, AI generated it largely from Scalia's own website. That's how AI works. Duh.

DP Please show me how it’s wrong - I’ve taught and recruited there. Looks right to me. It has 30 students right now in federal clerkships and one on SCOTUS. Very few law schools can say that.

Ok, here's how you're wrong. According to the most recently available statistics -- its 509 employment summary for 2024 -[b]- it only has 15 grads in federal clerkship.[url] Not 30. You're including state and other court clerkships, which don't carry nearly the same prestige.

https://www.law.gmu.edu/assets/files/career/abaemploymentsummary2024.pdf

Wrong. Read here. 31 graduates on federal courts of appeals this year, 1 on SCOTUS, 20+ in the federal district courts, and even more on article 1 federal courts. Only 20 out of 101 with clerkships clerking at the state level. https://www.law.gmu.edu/news/2025/federal-and-state-judiciary-turn-to-scalia-law-for-talented-and-highly-qualified-law-clerks

C'mon man, learn to read. Your link is to the numbers over a FOUR year period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok but you can be much lower in the class at a T14 and get a high paying biglaw job. And before anyone says there are jobs outside of biglaw, that is true. But they don’t tend to pay as well and a lot of students need to at least start at biglaw to pay off loans.

At my T10 law school, nearly the entire class got great jobs right out of school. Most in biglaw, then some in clerkships, and a few in government (by choice). Most of us had multiple biglaw offers.

As one of my former law professors would respond: "that's an excellent answer to a question that no one asked."

We all know that Biglaw goes deeper into the class in the T14 for hiring than most non-T14. That doesn't mean there aren't plenty of Biglaw jobs available to solid non-T14 grads. Take Notre Dame, for example. The 2024 graduating class had 180 students. Seventy-four went directly to Biglaw jobs, and another 31 got federal court clerkships. That's 105 out of 180.

Several other non T14s, including USC, Fordham, BC, BU and yes Howard do just as well or better.

I'll say this as gently as possible. Did you not learn how to issue spot? Analyze? We're giving advice about where to attend law school, PP. You're much better off job prospect wise going to a highly ranked law school. You will have a lot more opportunities if you are not at the top of the class. And since no one knows ahead of time how well they are going to do in law school, it's a much better bet not to bank on being top of class in a lower ranked school.

In short, you can do well coming from a lower ranked school but you have to be at the top of the class.

[Anonymous]

Here's a helpful link. Note that GWU and Howard are ranked. GMU isn't.

https://www.reddit.com/r/lawschooladmissions/comments/1of079w/t30_law_schools_by_combined_biglaw_and_federal/

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:FWIW, The current USNWR rankings are
Georgetown 14 (tied with others)
GW and Mason tied at 31 (with several others, including W&M)
Catholic 71 (tied)
American 104

I went to AU law when it was ranked in the top 50 and liked it, have had good jobs since graduation. But it was outrageously expensive then and seems to be so now. I can’t fathom what it has done to fall so far in the rankings.

If I had it to do all over again and wanted to be in this area, I would live in VA and go to Mason law school. Well ranked and a lot less expensive.

Yeah, what's going on at AU Law?

Likely nothing is "going on at AU Law," the rankings have never meant much beyond top 15 or so and they have shifted like crazy for many, many schools in recent history, and usually for no obvious reason. I attended Tulane when it was just inside the first tier at 40 and now it's 78. Nothing "going on" (although there were some issues when Katrina hit, that was over 20 years ago).

LOL. The "first tier" stops way short of no. 40.

Not when I went to law school it didn't. It referred to the top 50, not the top 14 like now.

When did you go to law school? Fifty years ago?

No, not 50 years ago.

When did you go to law school? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Never. You’re one of the mommies, right? Obsessing over things like this because you want your kid to go to law school? Yep. That’s what I thought.

DP
I went to law school 30 years (been practicing ever since) and I would not recommend my kid go to law school if they couldn't go to a pretty good one and top 50 ain't it.
Top 10 maybe top 20,but not top 50

I agree. I went to law school 25 years ago (at T10), and I would have the same advice for my kids.

I’m surprised that you both say this. I am also a practicing lawyer for 30 plus years, as is my spouse, as are many friends, and of course colleagues. I’ve worked in big law and in house, and know many attorneys well who have worked in both areas plus government, nonprofits, smaller firms, and left the law entirely. I’m sure your circles are similar.

But I have the opposite view as you do. The more experienced I am, the more I encounter attorneys in senior positions who have graduated from a variety of law schools. It’s a big world out there! I see the obsession with T14 schools usually at mid level associates and below (probably because they are trying to distinguish themselves). Those with more experience realize that there is a lot more to being strong in one’s field beyond where they went to law school. Many attorneys from top schools just don’t have it or haven’t yet found their niche, and conversely many great attorneys graduated from GW, American, Fordham, so on.

I do find that I can usually tell in meetings when someone is/has been a practicing attorney (regardless of the school) because they approach the matter in an analytic way. another saying that non-lawyers don’t do that or that all lawyers do, but there is a consistency.

I’d discourage my own kids from going to law school entirely, but that’s a different post

Both DH and I are lawyers and would not want either of our 3 DC to go to law school. But not going to T14 will limit where you end up. DH says that at his big law firm, they do not recruit anywhere below Georgetown. There are absolutely no grads or lawyers from non top law schools except for a few rain making partners who have a chip on their shoulder but went to a lower ranked law school and are only at the firm because of they business they bring in their particular niche. And you can tell by tier of firm, how analytical the lawyers are. DH has worked at several big law firms in the span of 30 years and has noticed quality of associates declines with reputation of firm, which is really reputation of law schools they came from.

There is not a single large firm in any major market where there are "no grads or lawyers from non stop law schools" other than rainmakers. Zero. None. Not in DC, not in NYC, not in LA, not in Chicago. Nowhere. The demand for associates in Biglaw exceeds the supply of T14 graduates, requiring that EVERY SINGLE FIRM dip a little lower.

I'm not saying that you're better off attending a T14, but you absolutely can get a job at ANY major law firm in the United States coming out of a lower ranked one. Yes, you will have to have done well, often extraordinarily well. But it can be done and IS being done.

Prove me wrong. Provide a link to a Biglaw firm without a single associate who graduated from a law school below Georgetown. I'll wait.

This is not true.

Of course it is, muffin. I know multiple Biglaw attorneys in Phoenix that went to law school at Arizona State or the University of Arizona.

In fairness, Phoenix is a second tier law market that doesn't attract the same quality law grad as New York, DC, Chicago, LA, SF etc.

I'll gladly take a second tier market to start at $160k-$180k with a significantly lower cost of living.

if your life goal is to practice law in Phoenix for your whole career, then you might be ok with a regional law school. If you want more options, go to a T14 if you can.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, The current USNWR rankings are
Georgetown 14 (tied with others)
GW and Mason tied at 31 (with several others, including W&M)
Catholic 71 (tied)
American 104

I went to AU law when it was ranked in the top 50 and liked it, have had good jobs since graduation. But it was outrageously expensive then and seems to be so now. I can’t fathom what it has done to fall so far in the rankings.

If I had it to do all over again and wanted to be in this area, I would live in VA and go to Mason law school. Well ranked and a lot less expensive.

Yeah, what's going on at AU Law?

Likely nothing is "going on at AU Law," the rankings have never meant much beyond top 15 or so and they have shifted like crazy for many, many schools in recent history, and usually for no obvious reason. I attended Tulane when it was just inside the first tier at 40 and now it's 78. Nothing "going on" (although there were some issues when Katrina hit, that was over 20 years ago).

LOL. The "first tier" stops way short of no. 40.

Not when I went to law school it didn't. It referred to the top 50, not the top 14 like now.

When did you go to law school? Fifty years ago?

No, not 50 years ago.

When did you go to law school? Yeah, that’s what I thought. Never. You’re one of the mommies, right? Obsessing over things like this because you want your kid to go to law school? Yep. That’s what I thought.

DP
I went to law school 30 years (been practicing ever since) and I would not recommend my kid go to law school if they couldn't go to a pretty good one and top 50 ain't it.
Top 10 maybe top 20,but not top 50

I agree. I went to law school 25 years ago (at T10), and I would have the same advice for my kids.

I’m surprised that you both say this. I am also a practicing lawyer for 30 plus years, as is my spouse, as are many friends, and of course colleagues. I’ve worked in big law and in house, and know many attorneys well who have worked in both areas plus government, nonprofits, smaller firms, and left the law entirely. I’m sure your circles are similar.

But I have the opposite view as you do. The more experienced I am, the more I encounter attorneys in senior positions who have graduated from a variety of law schools. It’s a big world out there! I see the obsession with T14 schools usually at mid level associates and below (probably because they are trying to distinguish themselves). Those with more experience realize that there is a lot more to being strong in one’s field beyond where they went to law school. Many attorneys from top schools just don’t have it or haven’t yet found their niche, and conversely many great attorneys graduated from GW, American, Fordham, so on.

I do find that I can usually tell in meetings when someone is/has been a practicing attorney (regardless of the school) because they approach the matter in an analytic way. another saying that non-lawyers don’t do that or that all lawyers do, but there is a consistency.

I’d discourage my own kids from going to law school entirely, but that’s a different post

Both DH and I are lawyers and would not want either of our 3 DC to go to law school. But not going to T14 will limit where you end up. DH says that at his big law firm, they do not recruit anywhere below Georgetown. There are absolutely no grads or lawyers from non top law schools except for a few rain making partners who have a chip on their shoulder but went to a lower ranked law school and are only at the firm because of they business they bring in their particular niche. And you can tell by tier of firm, how analytical the lawyers are. DH has worked at several big law firms in the span of 30 years and has noticed quality of associates declines with reputation of firm, which is really reputation of law schools they came from.

There is not a single large firm in any major market where there are "no grads or lawyers from non stop law schools" other than rainmakers. Zero. None. Not in DC, not in NYC, not in LA, not in Chicago. Nowhere. The demand for associates in Biglaw exceeds the supply of T14 graduates, requiring that EVERY SINGLE FIRM dip a little lower.

I'm not saying that you're better off attending a T14, but you absolutely can get a job at ANY major law firm in the United States coming out of a lower ranked one. Yes, you will have to have done well, often extraordinarily well. But it can be done and IS being done.

Prove me wrong. Provide a link to a Biglaw firm without a single associate who graduated from a law school below Georgetown. I'll wait.

This is not true.

Of course it is, muffin. I know multiple Biglaw attorneys in Phoenix that went to law school at Arizona State or the University of Arizona.

Phoenix isn't what most people think of when they reference biglaw, sweetie. I am trying to think of even one lawyer from my T5 law school who went to Phoenix. Can't think of one. Texas is the closest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Howard is second to Georgetown for big law placement. And contrary to popular belief, not all students are black.

Really? Ahead of GW? Cite?

Law school to big law rankings 2024
https://www.heyfuturelawyer.com/outcomes#table

Howard above GW. I know for a fact that many firms in DC only recruit from
Georgetown and Howard (except for IP-GW)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Howard is second to Georgetown for big law placement. And contrary to popular belief, not all students are black.

Really? Ahead of GW? Cite?

Law school to big law rankings 2024
https://www.heyfuturelawyer.com/outcomes#table

Howard above GW. I know for a fact that many firms in DC only recruit from
Georgetown and Howard (except for IP-GW)

Not a GWU booster and I have no connection to either it or Howard, but let's be reasonable here.

Howard is 23rd on that list. GWU is 27th. Not a huge difference. And GWU is three or four times bigger than Howard.

All of the big DC first recruit at GWU. Show us one that doesn't.

GMU, by the way, is 60th on the Biglaw list.