Do students at universities form social groups based on family income levels?

[Anonymous]

At the SLAC we just visited, we were given the following stats:

Percentage of students who work an on-campus job: 80%

Percentage of students who receive financial aid (which often includes on-campus job role as part of the package): 56%

My initial read of this was that working is pretty normalized, even for a decent junk of full-pay students. I liked that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are there many other parents who can afford to pay for fancy college break trips but don't? We're planning to pay for all of DD's college-related expenses and she generally wants for nothing, but we've told her that she'll be expected to pay for any college trips with friends from money she earns herself even though we could afford to foot the bill. We're ready to be the lone mean parents, but it sure would be nice if there were one or two other kids in the same boat.

This is us. However I have loosened up some because they are doing great in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the SLAC we just visited, we were given the following stats:

Percentage of students who work an on-campus job: 80%

Percentage of students who receive financial aid (which often includes on-campus job role as part of the package): 56%

My initial read of this was that working is pretty normalized, even for a decent junk of full-pay students. I liked that.

I like that, too! Which school?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, 100%
My son is at any Ivy and reports that all NYC private school kids and boarding school kids stick together. Several of them have parents who bought houses near the Ivy
that sit mostly empty (freshman year) but that the kids use to party. Also they get local country club memberships for their 4 years and the kids all play golf together.
My kid attended a top private and has been invited to party and golf, etc but told me "They're fine but I don't want my entire social experience to revolve around them" --because apparently it's a pretty all-consuming group.

this is pretty common at most schools in T20.

In general, society is already divided. Just look at the neighborhood and zoning

+1 this is just how America works.

This is how it works everywhere.

True, the rich separate them selves everywhere. Vacation spots, hobbies, neighborhoods, clothing brands. It’s everywhere when you pay attention.

And? Go get yourself the best education you can get and make a living and a life for yourself. Some people are going to go off to their ski houses or some tropical island over winter break and so what?

The key issue is connection—this is what really matters for ambitious middle-class students. If those expensive, prestigious private schools can't provide meaningful connections, the return on investment is too low, especially for middle-class families who are likely paying close to full tuition.

This mentality is so sad. So many ambitious middle-class students succeed without anything having to do with connections. This “connections or bust” view is so myopic.

+1

[Anonymous]

Was this one of the 10 schools? We are thinking of sending our kid (they really want to go), but this is my hesitation.

Anonymous wrote:Ime yes. I was a Mc kid at a wealthy school. I drove home 12 hours for spring break. Some of the people I know chartered a private plans to fly to a tropical island. That sort of thing. It wasn’t always easy.

[Anonymous]

Why don't people already realize this? People don't become friends just because you all go to and pay admission at the same school. There are tons of cliques and by college age people are out of their elements so they gravitate to who/what they know. So that means people in the same circles of expensive private school, people from same city/town/neighborhood, same social class, etc. Who do you know? and the name game are very popular ice-breakers in college right after where are you from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For example, do wealthy students often stick together — they tend to hang out on luxury private islands and build their own exclusive networks?[/

Yes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Yes, 100%
My son is at any Ivy and reports that all NYC private school kids and boarding school kids stick together. Several of them have parents who bought houses near the Ivy
that sit mostly empty (freshman year) but that the kids use to party. Also they get local country club memberships for their 4 years and the kids all play golf together.
My kid attended a top private and has been invited to party and golf, etc but told me "They're fine but I don't want my entire social experience to revolve around them" --because apparently it's a pretty all-consuming group.

this is pretty common at most schools in T20.

In general, society is already divided. Just look at the neighborhood and zoning

+1 this is just how America works.

This is how it works everywhere.

True, the rich separate them selves everywhere. Vacation spots, hobbies, neighborhoods, clothing brands. It’s everywhere when you pay attention.

And? Go get yourself the best education you can get and make a living and a life for yourself. Some people are going to go off to their ski houses or some tropical island over winter break and so what?

The key issue is connection—this is what really matters for ambitious middle-class students. If those expensive, prestigious private schools can't provide meaningful connections, the return on investment is too low, especially for middle-class families who are likely paying close to full tuition.

This mentality is so sad. So many ambitious middle-class students succeed without anything having to do with connections. This “connections or bust” view is so myopic.

+1

Of course middle class kids can become a Bill Gates or be successful that is as old as time.

However not anymore that ship has sailed .

There will be the haves and the have nots and they will not be crossing paths .

No one on this thread read Project 2025

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It happens….some can afford concerts, spring break trips, nicer apartments and fancy dinners out. I don’t think it completely precludes larger and more diverse friend groups, but tighter cliques do form as a result of income levels.

This already acts as a natural filter in the dating pool.

It does. Which means the dating pool for rich girls is absolutely tiny. It's euro-trash and wall street nepos. Most aren't finding happiness and a good one there.

I’ve never thought of it this way but you are totally right, PP.

OP, it’s not exactly as nefarious or premeditated as your post suggests….just sort of happens naturally

[Anonymous]

I went to a HYP as a lower middle class kid (would go free today). Realized after a year or so that my crew of 4 best friends were all from roughly the same socioeconomic class. It had never explicitly come up, but somehow we gravitated to each other as people who didn’t quite fit in with the wealthy prep school/westchester county/newton public school kids. Luckily we all went to grad or professional school, which is somewhat meritocratic; none of us made the kind of connections that might help get jobs in the private sector.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don't people already realize this? People don't become friends just because you all go to and pay admission at the same school. There are tons of cliques and by college age people are out of their elements so they gravitate to who/what they know. So that means people in the same circles of expensive private school, people from same city/town/neighborhood, same social class, etc. Who do you know? and the name game are very popular ice-breakers in college right after where are you from?

I wonder if the way roommates are chosen has changed the degree of intermingling over the past few decades. When I went to school, most people accepted their random roommate assignment, and so halls or suites were truly mixed and people’s first groups friends were more economically diverse. (As time went on, they might start to gravitate more to people like themselves.)

Now it seems kids choose roommates from similar backgrounds on Instagram or whatever, so it’s assumed you’ll be surrounded by people just like you from the get go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why don't people already realize this? People don't become friends just because you all go to and pay admission at the same school. There are tons of cliques and by college age people are out of their elements so they gravitate to who/what they know. So that means people in the same circles of expensive private school, people from same city/town/neighborhood, same social class, etc. Who do you know? and the name game are very popular ice-breakers in college right after where are you from?

Kids are at different ivies, and this is not true. Many different income level kids hang out together. It is more based on interest or EC(arts groups, E-groups) than income. However these schools have 55-60% on need based aid and 75% have campus jobs(more than half are paid research with professors or paid undergrad TA jobs though: ie coveted positions that fullpays want too, for the resume building). There are many free or heavily discounted campus activities for students, not being able to pay is not the barrier it was when I was a FGLI at one of these ivies 28 yr ago). Friends from the rich private K-12 who attend SMU, W&L, Colby, even UVA mention much more class-sorting than my kids see at the ivies or their friends at JHU, Chicago see. Top schools have the least social stratification based on income. This is not the 1970s to mid80s when the ivies were 90% rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As one of the poor kids at a wealthier college: sort of. It's not that I didn't socialize with wealthy kids, but those of us who came from poorer families did know each other from the common job/money making rounds. We gave tours, did event staff work, business studies, etc.

There were also crowds I definitely couldn't afford to hang out with. My freshman year roommate would go out on Friday nights and drop a ton of money on things. So we didn't socialize much because I couldn't afford her lifestyle.

This!!

If you have to manage your own spending money and help pay for college, you are not dropping $50-100 each weekend on activities, you are finding ways to spend only $10-15 total (or less). When I was in college, my friends and I (most of us on work-study and limited $) would order pizza at the "right time on Sunday night" in hopes of getting it for free (there was a 30 min delivery guaranteed that was not possible to meet 100% of time on Sunday nights when everyone on campus was getting dinner as the dining halls were closed on Sunday night). about 40-50% of the time we got dinner for free. So I wasn't hanging with people going out Fri and Sat nights to spend $ and then out to dinner on Sunday, I simply didn't have the $

[Anonymous]

Not overtly, but depending on the school this can happen. At Duke, many of the Greek houses could approximate your wealth/status by asking what high school you attended and your family's neighborhood.

The wealthy Greenwich, Manhattan, Bay Area kids could sniff each other out easily and quickly formed social circles.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one of the poor kids at a wealthier college: sort of. It's not that I didn't socialize with wealthy kids, but those of us who came from poorer families did know each other from the common job/money making rounds. We gave tours, did event staff work, business studies, etc.

There were also crowds I definitely couldn't afford to hang out with. My freshman year roommate would go out on Friday nights and drop a ton of money on things. So we didn't socialize much because I couldn't afford her lifestyle.

This!!

If you have to manage your own spending money and help pay for college, you are not dropping $50-100 each weekend on activities, you are finding ways to spend only $10-15 total (or less). When I was in college, my friends and I (most of us on work-study and limited $) would order pizza at the "right time on Sunday night" in hopes of getting it for free (there was a 30 min delivery guaranteed that was not possible to meet 100% of time on Sunday nights when everyone on campus was getting dinner as the dining halls were closed on Sunday night). about 40-50% of the time we got dinner for free. So I wasn't hanging with people going out Fri and Sat nights to spend $ and then out to dinner on Sunday, I simply didn't have the $

At Northwestern, its sushi night/dining out on a Thursday - usually $50+/pp, then Uber to bars + drinks. Easily $75-100/night.....
Frat parties require new dresses/shopping.
Just not possible if you don't have access to a $$$$ stream.