Do students at universities form social groups based on family income levels?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’ve been thinking a lot about what 'prestige' really means in college admissions. From what I’ve observed, many mc parents are fixated on elite private schools — likely because they want to feel part of an exclusive group, and are drawn to features like smaller student-to-teacher ratios. But when it comes to actual education quality, there’s no significant difference between top public and private schools. What really sets these elite institutions apart is the concentration of wealth, which creates the illusion of prestige. Ironically, though, middle-class students often can’t afford to participate in the exclusive networks and activities of their wealthier peers.

A so-called elite school can actually be cheaper because they are able to offer significant aid even to middle class students. That is absolutely one of the reasons they are so competitive. And then the financial burden of paying tuition exists for every college from the bottom to the top.. so people want to use that money to go to the highest quality institution they can access.

I still don't see a significant financial advantage in attending a private elite university over a state flagship. The only real difference I’ve noticed is greater access to faculty (student/teacher ratio)

If your family income is less than $250,000 per year, you are not going to get a tuition bill from Princeton University if you can get yourself in there. That is what a lot of people would call a significant financial advantage.

This is what Princeton said - https://profile.princeton.edu/numbers

About 62‑percent of undergraduates receive financial aid.
Roughly 25‑30% of undergraduates pay nothing to attend, because their aid covers all costs (tuition, room, board, etc.)

However, being eligible for financial aid and actually paying nothing are two very different things. You can qualify for aid but only receive a minimal amount—like $1,000 a year—which is negligible compared to the $70,000+ total cost. In reality, it’s likely that only about a quarter of Princeton students come from low-income families. (which means three quarters of students do pay and that amount can be much higher than paying for a state flagship)

Of course not everyone is going to get a generous award. But if you are eligible, you are going to get a kick-ass college education for a low tuition bill. Some of these schools have the ability to be more generous than the state flagship for some students.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’ve been thinking a lot about what 'prestige' really means in college admissions. From what I’ve observed, many mc parents are fixated on elite private schools — likely because they want to feel part of an exclusive group, and are drawn to features like smaller student-to-teacher ratios. But when it comes to actual education quality, there’s no significant difference between top public and private schools. What really sets these elite institutions apart is the concentration of wealth, which creates the illusion of prestige. Ironically, though, middle-class students often can’t afford to participate in the exclusive networks and activities of their wealthier peers.

A so-called elite school can actually be cheaper because they are able to offer significant aid even to middle class students. That is absolutely one of the reasons they are so competitive. And then the financial burden of paying tuition exists for every college from the bottom to the top.. so people want to use that money to go to the highest quality institution they can access.

I still don't see a significant financial advantage in attending a private elite university over a state flagship. The only real difference I’ve noticed is greater access to faculty (student/teacher ratio)

If your family income is less than $250,000 per year, you are not going to get a tuition bill from Princeton University if you can get yourself in there. That is what a lot of people would call a significant financial advantage.

That's very generous. Who cares if you don't get to hob knob with the billionaire students. For that level of support, I think you can develop some coping skills around that.

What if being poor or middle class makes you part of a "small minority on campus"? You might not gain much from the experience if you're too busy working part-time just to afford being there.

Okay sure. But if you can't figure out how to gain something from a Princeton education then I would be surprised if you manage to get yourself into Princeton.

[Anonymous]

Studies have shown that attending an elite college helps low income students move up in the world.

As for actual social groups, it really depends on the college. Colleges that charge different rates for dorms, that permit residential Greek life, and that charge students to attend activities like concerts, indirectly encourage economic stratification.

If you really are interested in attending a college that discourages economic stratification, I would look to Quaker colleges, colleges that have lottery systems by year for housing, and that have "cashless" campuses where events are free for students.

[Anonymous]

Not always, both of my kids had a variety of friends at all income levels.

It does mean the kids have to be self aware when planning activities but most kids are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been thinking a lot about what 'prestige' really means in college admissions. From what I’ve observed, many mc parents are fixated on elite private schools — likely because they want to feel part of an exclusive group, and are drawn to features like smaller student-to-teacher ratios. But when it comes to actual education quality, there’s no significant difference between top public and private schools. What really sets these elite institutions apart is the concentration of wealth, which creates the illusion of prestige. Ironically, though, middle-class students often can’t afford to participate in the exclusive networks and activities of their wealthier peers.

A so-called elite school can actually be cheaper because they are able to offer significant aid even to middle class students. That is absolutely one of the reasons they are so competitive. And then the financial burden of paying tuition exists for every college from the bottom to the top.. so people want to use that money to go to the highest quality institution they can access.

I still don't see a significant financial advantage in attending a private elite university over a state flagship. The only real difference I’ve noticed is greater access to faculty (student/teacher ratio)

If your family income is less than $250,000 per year and you have "typical family assets," you are not going to get a tuition bill from Princeton University if you can get yourself in there. That is what a lot of people would call a significant financial advantage.

Fixed it for you. I've run the net price calculator and we would be full pay at Princeton with a HHI of $150k. Not boo-hooing having assets, but this misconception drives me crazy.

I don't think most people are under this misconception. Some people with 150k HHI have significant assets available, but but many do not.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been thinking a lot about what 'prestige' really means in college admissions. From what I’ve observed, many mc parents are fixated on elite private schools — likely because they want to feel part of an exclusive group, and are drawn to features like smaller student-to-teacher ratios. But when it comes to actual education quality, there’s no significant difference between top public and private schools. What really sets these elite institutions apart is the concentration of wealth, which creates the illusion of prestige. Ironically, though, middle-class students often can’t afford to participate in the exclusive networks and activities of their wealthier peers.

A so-called elite school can actually be cheaper because they are able to offer significant aid even to middle class students. That is absolutely one of the reasons they are so competitive. And then the financial burden of paying tuition exists for every college from the bottom to the top.. so people want to use that money to go to the highest quality institution they can access.

I still don't see a significant financial advantage in attending a private elite university over a state flagship. The only real difference I’ve noticed is greater access to faculty (student/teacher ratio)

If your family income is less than $250,000 per year, you are not going to get a tuition bill from Princeton University if you can get yourself in there. That is what a lot of people would call a significant financial advantage.

That’s the thing — no one’s going to hire you just because you went to Princeton. So aside from financial aid, what are you really getting? And even then, only about a quarter of students receive full tuition coverage. The vast majority are still paying substantial amounts to attend.

That's very generous. Who cares if you don't get to hob knob with the billionaire students. For that level of support, I think you can develop some coping skills around that.

What if being poor or middle class makes you part of a "small minority on campus"? You might not gain much from the experience if you're too busy working part-time just to afford being there.

Okay sure. But if you can't figure out how to gain something from a Princeton education then I would be surprised if you manage to get yourself into Princeton.

[Anonymous]

That’s the thing — no one’s going to hire you just because you went to Princeton. So aside from financial aid, what are you really getting? And even then, only about a quarter of students receive full tuition coverage. The vast majority are still paying substantial amounts to attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 100%
My son is at any Ivy and reports that all NYC private school kids and boarding school kids stick together. Several of them have parents who bought houses near the Ivy
that sit mostly empty (freshman year) but that the kids use to party. Also they get local country club memberships for their 4 years and the kids all play golf together.
My kid attended a top private and has been invited to party and golf, etc but told me "They're fine but I don't want my entire social experience to revolve around them" --because apparently it's a pretty all-consuming group.

Please clue us in to which school...

[Anonymous]

I've started hearing people hiding their assets just so they look poor on paper

[Anonymous]

This is an eye-opening post:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1218778.page

Maybe bump it up?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, 100%
My son is at any Ivy and reports that all NYC private school kids and boarding school kids stick together. Several of them have parents who bought houses near the Ivy
that sit mostly empty (freshman year) but that the kids use to party. Also they get local country club memberships for their 4 years and the kids all play golf together.
My kid attended a top private and has been invited to party and golf, etc but told me "They're fine but I don't want my entire social experience to revolve around them" --because apparently it's a pretty all-consuming group.

this is pretty common at most schools in T20.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Studies have shown that attending an elite college helps low income students move up in the world.

As for actual social groups, it really depends on the college. Colleges that charge different rates for dorms, that permit residential Greek life, and that charge students to attend activities like concerts, indirectly encourage economic stratification.

If you really are interested in attending a college that discourages economic stratification, I would look to Quaker colleges, colleges that have lottery systems by year for housing, and that have "cashless" campuses where events are free for students.

I would have assumed those grinding families are mostly middle class not low income students. In fact, low income students in elite private are minority

[Anonymous]

Yes. It's based on what you can afford to do, mostly, not based on the kids only wanting to hang out with others of the same SES.

[Anonymous]

I went to a school with a significant NYC private school contingent and those kids just continued to stick together in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, but if all your friends are in the broad middle class you might not notice. The categories are very large. You're probably not going to socialize with the kid who has access to a private jet and helicopters. That person will include whoever their roommates are, perhaps, but most of their circle will also be composed of rich kids who understand what that life is like.

Watch the FBOs at Nashville, Ithaca, Durham, Palwaukee (north of Evanston), South Bend, and Hanover for parents' weekend or big game weekends.
That's how you know what that school is "really" like.