Is the IB diploma worth it?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

UVA does not just say "oh the counselor checked the Most Rigorous box, that's all we need". They look at exactly what classes the student took, and take into account which types of IB classes were taken and which ones were HL or SL. If you took the hardest classes and took them HL, they will notice this and you will be considered to have had a more rigorous education than if you took easy classes, as indeed you should. Similarly they are going to notice if you did the diploma vs merely an assortment.

This is silly. You’re claiming the AOs will guesstimate if the student will do the diploma since the applications are read earlier in the year. And on top of it they will give more weight to academic rigor compared to the students that maybe loaded up on HL classes better aligned with their intended major, despite the high school counselor putting them in the same most rigorous category! You’re just inventing stuff up to make yourself feel better about the path your kid took.

You're just an idiot if you think UVA is guessing. The student will tell them, the school counselor will tell them, and perhaps the teacher recommendation will tell them that the kid is IB diploma. Also they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what an IB diploma curriculum looks like. And Deanj on the UVA admissions blog states many times that they don't like to see kids "specializing" in courses they are excited about or that align with their supposed college major, so no, they will not give "more weight" to those courses. They want to see strong performance in the core classes and they will notice if you took the most challenging HL courses even if they don't "align" with your major.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

Many exceptional Maryland kids attend UMD for exactly the same reason many exceptional Virginia kids attend UVA: the state flagship has huge bang for the buck. They got into "more competitive" colleges that cost 2-3x as much as the state flagship and decided that wasn't worth it. Not every kid has a family that is willing or able to pay $90k+ a year for college.

You will note that 80% of the kids at UMD who submitted scores had SATs of 1400-1600 and it's very clear those kids could have gone "somewhere better".

Sneering at IB kids who go to UMD is simply ignorant.

They are good kids, but not exceptional, which means that are an exception in their cohort, like one or maybe two kids in their cohort. You don’t go to UMD, a top 50-100 school, and be exceptional at the same time. An SAT score of 1400 in the test optional era, is not that impressive.

I get the cost argument, but also if they are that poor there’s financial aid available, so the cost would be partly adjusted down from $90k/year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

Nope. That is not true. There is no time for actual critical thinking, analysis and writing. "Get it done get it done." time management.

What?! My kid’s writing dramatically improved with IB. Additionally, kid started college with a year of college credits and no intro gen ed classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

This. The worst is when promising kids sacrifice their interest for the IB diploma and for a high gpa. Like when a kid enters high school in Algebra 2, works hard to do AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C, AP Computer Computer Science, before the IBDP years, then taps out and takes the easy way out with IB HL Math, IB HL Physics and IB Computer Science. Because they want to keep their goa ant 4.0 are led to believe the IB Diploma is worth something as a stamp of being well rounded, and a seal for “critical thinking, analysis and writing” total bs.

Of course despite the 4.0, and the many doubled up advanced classes (AP and IB) they won’t do better than UMD, because the upper tier colleges want to see the student challenged themselves in high school, and didn’t just grade grub easy As.

If you sacrifice your interest and passion for the IBDP, then no, the diploma is not worth it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

Ok, excuse me, IB Diploma candidates. The kids doing full IB vs the others doing partial or AP. It is well known at WL that if you want to go to UVA you need to do full IB. That's the only school that weighs it so heavily. The school counselors will tell you this.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

UVA does not just say "oh the counselor checked the Most Rigorous box, that's all we need". They look at exactly what classes the student took, and take into account which types of IB classes were taken and which ones were HL or SL. If you took the hardest classes and took them HL, they will notice this and you will be considered to have had a more rigorous education than if you took easy classes, as indeed you should. Similarly they are going to notice if you did the diploma vs merely an assortment.

This is silly. You’re claiming the AOs will guesstimate if the student will do the diploma since the applications are read earlier in the year. And on top of it they will give more weight to academic rigor compared to the students that maybe loaded up on HL classes better aligned with their intended major, despite the high school counselor putting them in the same most rigorous category! You’re just inventing stuff up to make yourself feel better about the path your kid took.

You're just an idiot if you think UVA is guessing. The student will tell them, the school counselor will tell them, and perhaps the teacher recommendation will tell them that the kid is IB diploma. Also they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what an IB diploma curriculum looks like. And Deanj on the UVA admissions blog states many times that they don't like to see kids "specializing" in courses they are excited about or that align with their supposed college major, so no, they will not give "more weight" to those courses. They want to see strong performance in the core classes and they will notice if you took the most challenging HL courses even if they don't "align" with your major.

You’re coping hard.

This is what UVA states on their admission site

Does UVA prefer AP, IB, Cambridge or dual enrolled curricula?
We do not have a preference for one type of course. We suggest that students take advantage of advanced course options at their high school, regardless of the type of curriculum available.

Nothing about needing to take the diploma, or what courses you need to take. Some parents read these statements with an eye at getting confirmation their kid will have an advantage.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

Ok, excuse me, IB Diploma candidates. The kids doing full IB vs the others doing partial or AP. It is well known at WL that if you want to go to UVA you need to do full IB. That's the only school that weighs it so heavily. The school counselors will tell you this.

It’s not that well known if I’ve never heard of it. UVA states clearly on their website that they don’t favor IB over AP. Yet, you claim there’s this well known knowledge among high schools counselors that UVA does in fact favor full IB diploma, before students even take the diploma exams How delusional are you?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

We’re at a HS with a full IBDP, DE>AA Degree, and a large slate of AP classes. About the only ones who get into UVA are from IB. UVA knows our school’s track record and seniors who apply are assumed to be capable of completing the full program. Underclassmen without the chops are counseled out (even half-way through their junior year; to be fair, I only know of one such case now in our six yrs there). Sadly, though, there’s little aspiration (or success) at T10 or Ivies, much less abroad. It’s just not a thing for our alum.

Made up, UVA doesn’t give preference to IB vs AP, and the actual OP question was about the diploma. Which doesn’t matter.

UVA absolutely gives preference to IB vs AP. They assume kids who are taking full IB will do the diploma so while the diploma isn't conferred until after admission decisions, it is taken into account. Ask counselors at any NOVA schools that offer a full slate of AP courses alongside IB and they will tell you UVA wants full IB.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

We’re at a HS with a full IBDP, DE>AA Degree, and a large slate of AP classes. About the only ones who get into UVA are from IB. UVA knows our school’s track record and seniors who apply are assumed to be capable of completing the full program. Underclassmen without the chops are counseled out (even half-way through their junior year; to be fair, I only know of one such case now in our six yrs there). Sadly, though, there’s little aspiration (or success) at T10 or Ivies, much less abroad. It’s just not a thing for our alum.

Made up, UVA doesn’t give preference to IB vs AP, and the actual OP question was about the diploma. Which doesn’t matter.

UVA absolutely gives preference to IB vs AP. They assume kids who are taking full IB will do the diploma so while the diploma isn't conferred until after admission decisions, it is taken into account. Ask counselors at any NOVA schools that offer a full slate of AP courses alongside IB and they will tell you UVA wants full IB.

So UVA is straight up lying on their admissions website? Gtfoh.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

We’re at a HS with a full IBDP, DE>AA Degree, and a large slate of AP classes. About the only ones who get into UVA are from IB. UVA knows our school’s track record and seniors who apply are assumed to be capable of completing the full program. Underclassmen without the chops are counseled out (even half-way through their junior year; to be fair, I only know of one such case now in our six yrs there). Sadly, though, there’s little aspiration (or success) at T10 or Ivies, much less abroad. It’s just not a thing for our alum.

Made up, UVA doesn’t give preference to IB vs AP, and the actual OP question was about the diploma. Which doesn’t matter.

UVA absolutely gives preference to IB vs AP. They assume kids who are taking full IB will do the diploma so while the diploma isn't conferred until after admission decisions, it is taken into account. Ask counselors at any NOVA schools that offer a full slate of AP courses alongside IB and they will tell you UVA wants full IB.

So UVA is straight up lying on their admissions website? Gtfoh.

Whatever, have your kid do AP, apply to UVA and get rejected.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

We’re at a HS with a full IBDP, DE>AA Degree, and a large slate of AP classes. About the only ones who get into UVA are from IB. UVA knows our school’s track record and seniors who apply are assumed to be capable of completing the full program. Underclassmen without the chops are counseled out (even half-way through their junior year; to be fair, I only know of one such case now in our six yrs there). Sadly, though, there’s little aspiration (or success) at T10 or Ivies, much less abroad. It’s just not a thing for our alum.

Made up, UVA doesn’t give preference to IB vs AP, and the actual OP question was about the diploma. Which doesn’t matter.

UVA absolutely gives preference to IB vs AP. They assume kids who are taking full IB will do the diploma so while the diploma isn't conferred until after admission decisions, it is taken into account. Ask counselors at any NOVA schools that offer a full slate of AP courses alongside IB and they will tell you UVA wants full IB.

So UVA is straight up lying on their admissions website? Gtfoh.

Whatever, have your kid do AP, apply to UVA and get rejected.

Smoke whatever copium you need to feel better about the choices you made for your child. I don’t see what you expect the rest of us to play along and pretend you’re right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

This. The worst is when promising kids sacrifice their interest for the IB diploma and for a high gpa. Like when a kid enters high school in Algebra 2, works hard to do AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C, AP Computer Computer Science, before the IBDP years, then taps out and takes the easy way out with IB HL Math, IB HL Physics and IB Computer Science. Because they want to keep their goa ant 4.0 are led to believe the IB Diploma is worth something as a stamp of being well rounded, and a seal for “critical thinking, analysis and writing” total bs.

Of course despite the 4.0, and the many doubled up advanced classes (AP and IB) they won’t do better than UMD, because the upper tier colleges want to see the student challenged themselves in high school, and didn’t just grade grub easy As.

If you sacrifice your interest and passion for the IBDP, then no, the diploma is not worth it.

Um.. IBDP is not an easy "A", what are you smoking.

Also, many end up in the state flagship due to cost or they were CS majors (and yes, UMD is T20 for CS) which is notoriously difficult for college admissions.

You don't have to send your kid to IBDP if you don't want to, but it's definitely challenging, and the critical analysis and writing is much better than APs. I had different kids take different paths. It's not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

This. The worst is when promising kids sacrifice their interest for the IB diploma and for a high gpa. Like when a kid enters high school in Algebra 2, works hard to do AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C, AP Computer Computer Science, before the IBDP years, then taps out and takes the easy way out with IB HL Math, IB HL Physics and IB Computer Science. Because they want to keep their goa ant 4.0 are led to believe the IB Diploma is worth something as a stamp of being well rounded, and a seal for “critical thinking, analysis and writing” total bs.

Of course despite the 4.0, and the many doubled up advanced classes (AP and IB) they won’t do better than UMD, because the upper tier colleges want to see the student challenged themselves in high school, and didn’t just grade grub easy As.

If you sacrifice your interest and passion for the IBDP, then no, the diploma is not worth it.

Um.. IBDP is not an easy "A", what are you smoking.

Also, many end up in the state flagship due to cost or they were CS majors (and yes, UMD is T20 for CS) which is notoriously difficult for college admissions.

You don't have to send your kid to IBDP if you don't want to, but it's definitely challenging, and the critical analysis and writing is much better than APs. I had different kids take different paths. It's not the same.

It kind of is when someone takes an AP class then the IB corresponding version for IBDP, which I’ve seen happen, and it’s an example of the diploma not being worthy.

I don’t know why you think IBDP has a monopoly on critical analysis and writing, and you never said in what way. Look up what’s on the AP English exam if you’re not familiar with it, they need to write synthesis, rhetorical analysis and argument essays. There’s a lot of writing in preparation for the exam, colleges give the same credit as HL English and the course is taking only one year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

Many exceptional Maryland kids attend UMD for exactly the same reason many exceptional Virginia kids attend UVA: the state flagship has huge bang for the buck. They got into "more competitive" colleges that cost 2-3x as much as the state flagship and decided that wasn't worth it. Not every kid has a family that is willing or able to pay $90k+ a year for college.

You will note that 80% of the kids at UMD who submitted scores had SATs of 1400-1600 and it's very clear those kids could have gone "somewhere better".

Sneering at IB kids who go to UMD is simply ignorant.

They are good kids, but not exceptional, which means that are an exception in their cohort, like one or maybe two kids in their cohort. You don’t go to UMD, a top 50-100 school, and be exceptional at the same time. An SAT score of 1400 in the test optional era, is not that impressive.

Look, UMD only lists the SAT scores by 1400-1600, but anyone with a grain of common sense (ie not you) will realize that if 80% of the kids are in that group, then there are a LOT of kids who are well over 1500, which is exceptional. And yes, exceptional kids do indeed go to UMD and UVA. Your snobbery is idiotic.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

UVA does not just say "oh the counselor checked the Most Rigorous box, that's all we need". They look at exactly what classes the student took, and take into account which types of IB classes were taken and which ones were HL or SL. If you took the hardest classes and took them HL, they will notice this and you will be considered to have had a more rigorous education than if you took easy classes, as indeed you should. Similarly they are going to notice if you did the diploma vs merely an assortment.

This is silly. You’re claiming the AOs will guesstimate if the student will do the diploma since the applications are read earlier in the year. And on top of it they will give more weight to academic rigor compared to the students that maybe loaded up on HL classes better aligned with their intended major, despite the high school counselor putting them in the same most rigorous category! You’re just inventing stuff up to make yourself feel better about the path your kid took.

You're just an idiot if you think UVA is guessing. The student will tell them, the school counselor will tell them, and perhaps the teacher recommendation will tell them that the kid is IB diploma. Also they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what an IB diploma curriculum looks like. And Deanj on the UVA admissions blog states many times that they don't like to see kids "specializing" in courses they are excited about or that align with their supposed college major, so no, they will not give "more weight" to those courses. They want to see strong performance in the core classes and they will notice if you took the most challenging HL courses even if they don't "align" with your major.

You’re coping hard.

This is what UVA states on their admission site

Does UVA prefer AP, IB, Cambridge or dual enrolled curricula?
We do not have a preference for one type of course. We suggest that students take advantage of advanced course options at their high school, regardless of the type of curriculum available.

Nothing about needing to take the diploma, or what courses you need to take. Some parents read these statements with an eye at getting confirmation their kid will have an advantage.

I'm sorry you're too stupid to understand that "take advantage of advanced course options at their high school" means, in practice, doing the IB diploma at an IB school and taking the most difficult IB courses.