Is the IB diploma worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

Nope. That is not true. There is no time for actual critical thinking, analysis and writing. "Get it done get it done." time management.

[Anonymous]

Do UK schools accept ACT/SAT in lieu of AP or IB, or do you need both? Do you need to report everything your student ever took, such as SAT, ACT and all APs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

Nope. That is not true. There is no time for actual critical thinking, analysis and writing. "Get it done get it done." time management.

There are only 24 hours in a day. It is fine for there to be academic programs for students that want to invest a lot of time. And it is fine for students that want to invest their time in other pursuits then such a heavy academic load to do so. The IB is a good fit for some students but not all students.

[Anonymous]

For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

Nope. That is not true. There is no time for actual critical thinking, analysis and writing. "Get it done get it done." time management.

Not necessarily, some schools make it unnecessarily rigorous, others easily manageable but there are places implementing it right to balance the rigor and the high school experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Background: High school that offers both IBDP and many AP courses. I have 2 kids that graduated with IB diplomas.

College acceptances do not vary among the students. IB does not give an edge if you are already taking a rigorous courseload.

It may differ by school, but I agree with the teacher above. TOK is universally hated and viewed as pointless. Kids who care about education would rather take another class. And one of my kids loves philosophy/is a philosophy major. Hated TOK.

It prepares students for college writing and research better than AP courses.

My personal opinion is that it is not as good for STEM. Both my kids took HL level sciences. I thought Bio was rigorous, but by taking a 2 year bio class, students often skipped physics or doubled up on science (which can be tough given HS requirements) or took over the summer. HL physics (at least the one offered at our school) is not calc based.

This.

If you opt for diploma then you’re saddled with TOK, community activity and extended essay, when instead you could be taking real courses that align with your interests. Two years for an advanced course is too long, and I don’t think there are many students that can handle an HL/AP level class over the summer. IB HL Physics is indeed not calculus based and it’s not that useful for kids interested in engineering majors.

I’d skip IBDP to take more rigorous classes, either more HL, AP or for math DE.

I don't know what this means. IBDP requires at least 3 HL classes, many of which straddle 2 years. Also, in some schools (like my kid's), the IBDP path includes AP courses starting from 9th grade.

The IBDP really doesn't start until 11th grade.

Most FCPS IB schools only offer IB, there is no AP alternative. We are pupil placing into an AP program for our STEM driven child who is hoping to go to TJ. Many of the FCPS IB schools do not offer the HL science classes because there are not enough students interested in them. The HL classes that the diploma students take tend to be in the humanities. The idea behind IB might be great but the execution in FCPS is poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do UK schools accept ACT/SAT in lieu of AP or IB, or do you need both? Do you need to report everything your student ever took, such as SAT, ACT and all APs?

Kids attend UK univesities with AP scores all the time. European schools are well aware that the vast majority of the US schools use AP classes and not IB classes. It does not hinder kids from being accepted to European universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do UK schools accept ACT/SAT in lieu of AP or IB, or do you need both? Do you need to report everything your student ever took, such as SAT, ACT and all APs?

Kids attend UK univesities with AP scores all the time. European schools are well aware that the vast majority of the US schools use AP classes and not IB classes. It does not hinder kids from being accepted to European universities.

Sorry, I meant if you can get admitted based on ACT/SAT high score (35/36) and the kid has middling AP scores, straight 4s, but A grade in BC Calc. Would they look at the high ACT score and high BC Calc grade and overlook a 4 in BC Calc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

UVA does not just say "oh the counselor checked the Most Rigorous box, that's all we need". They look at exactly what classes the student took, and take into account which types of IB classes were taken and which ones were HL or SL. If you took the hardest classes and took them HL, they will notice this and you will be considered to have had a more rigorous education than if you took easy classes, as indeed you should. Similarly they are going to notice if you did the diploma vs merely an assortment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

My kid is an IB diploma student at WASP and the diploma did in fact prepare her very well for college. Rhetoric, reading, writing, time management.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid did full IB. Now at UVA. Classes seemed manageable until the spring of senior year. Then it got stressful, which was unfortunately timed in the context of college admissions all in. By the end of the year, taking 15+ IB exams wasn’t exactly fun. No basis of comparison to say whether the classes and whole environment were more beneficial to my kid. I think time will tell on that.

That's BS. No kid takes 15 IB exams end of senior year. Try again fool

Not that PP but my kid did 16 exams last spring:
Computer Science HL Paper 1
Computer Science HL Paper 2
Computer Science HL Paper 3
History HL Paper 1
History HL Paper 2
History HL Paper 3
German SL Paper 1
German SL Paper 2 (reading comp)
German SL Paper 2 (listening)
English Lit HL Paper 1
English Lit HL Paper 2
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 1
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 2
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 3
Chemistry SL Paper 1 (1a and 1b)
Chemistry SL Paper 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid did full IB. Now at UVA. Classes seemed manageable until the spring of senior year. Then it got stressful, which was unfortunately timed in the context of college admissions all in. By the end of the year, taking 15+ IB exams wasn’t exactly fun. No basis of comparison to say whether the classes and whole environment were more beneficial to my kid. I think time will tell on that.

That's BS. No kid takes 15 IB exams end of senior year. Try again fool

Not that PP but my kid did 16 exams last spring:
Computer Science HL Paper 1
Computer Science HL Paper 2
Computer Science HL Paper 3
History HL Paper 1
History HL Paper 2
History HL Paper 3
German SL Paper 1
German SL Paper 2 (reading comp)
German SL Paper 2 (listening)
English Lit HL Paper 1
English Lit HL Paper 2
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 1
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 2
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 3
Chemistry SL Paper 1 (1a and 1b)
Chemistry SL Paper 2

Could you explain a little bit more about these exams? Are they taking on 16 separate days? How long is each exam? What type of format?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

Many exceptional Maryland kids attend UMD for exactly the same reason many exceptional Virginia kids attend UVA: the state flagship has huge bang for the buck. They got into "more competitive" colleges that cost 2-3x as much as the state flagship and decided that wasn't worth it. Not every kid has a family that is willing or able to pay $90k+ a year for college.

You will note that 80% of the kids at UMD who submitted scores had SATs of 1400-1600 and it's very clear those kids could have gone "somewhere better".

Sneering at IB kids who go to UMD is simply ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parent of kids whose school offers both IB and many APs. They only school I've heard it matters for is UVA. It's very difficult to get in from our school if you are not full IB. The only ones I know of were wait listed first. On the other had I know kids at Ivies and top LACs (e.g., Williams) who did not do the full IB diploma.

What about William & Mary?

I'm the previous poster and no, plenty of kids from our HS (WL) go to William & Mary without the IB Diploma. It's really just UVA that it's hard to get into without IB.

Is there any shred of evidence for this? The diploma results come much later than acceptance notifications.

I doubt UVa cares about the IB diploma. By the time the IB diploma is final, UVA has already sent most of its acceptance letters. UVa fills most if its openings with ED/EA not with RD. UVa is pretty transparent with the # of students accepted at each stage of the admissions process.

They perhaps don't care if you get the diploma but they are extremely likely to know if you're IBDP. As others have said, UVA is going to be able to tell from your transcript, because they have vast experience with IB kids and they know what TOK means. Also, FCPS students at IB schools provide "student input" to their counselor who writes the recommendation letter. One of the questions on the input form is "If you are an IB Diploma candidate what is your EE about (include title if you have one)?" The counselor will probably mention it, as will the teacher who writes a separate recommendation letter if it's an IB teacher. Finally, kids can bring it to UVA's attention themselves when they submit a "student resume" that says IBDP candidate on it.

Being aware the student is an IBDP candidate and giving it a weight in admissions are two very different things. Please find me at link at UVA that indicates it.

You know full well this is an extremely stupid and dishonest request, because nobody knows how any school truly "gives weight" to anything an applicant does. It's all rumor, and that's why you have students chasing things like "starting a nonprofit". The last thing you're going to find is the school posting its magic admissions formula online.

UVA has said that they give weight to the rigor of curriculum, as many schools do. At an IB school, the IBDP is the most rigorous curriculum. It's not an accident that so many of the kids at IB schools who are admitted to UVA are IBDP kids.

Read a few posts up, someone said the counselor will check most rigorous even on an assortment of IB classes not only the diploma candidates.

UVA does not just say "oh the counselor checked the Most Rigorous box, that's all we need". They look at exactly what classes the student took, and take into account which types of IB classes were taken and which ones were HL or SL. If you took the hardest classes and took them HL, they will notice this and you will be considered to have had a more rigorous education than if you took easy classes, as indeed you should. Similarly they are going to notice if you did the diploma vs merely an assortment.

This is silly. You’re claiming the AOs will guesstimate if the student will do the diploma since the applications are read earlier in the year. And on top of it they will give more weight to academic rigor compared to the students that maybe loaded up on HL classes better aligned with their intended major, despite the high school counselor putting them in the same most rigorous category! You’re just inventing stuff up to make yourself feel better about the path your kid took.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid did full IB. Now at UVA. Classes seemed manageable until the spring of senior year. Then it got stressful, which was unfortunately timed in the context of college admissions all in. By the end of the year, taking 15+ IB exams wasn’t exactly fun. No basis of comparison to say whether the classes and whole environment were more beneficial to my kid. I think time will tell on that.

That's BS. No kid takes 15 IB exams end of senior year. Try again fool

Not that PP but my kid did 16 exams last spring:
Computer Science HL Paper 1
Computer Science HL Paper 2
Computer Science HL Paper 3
History HL Paper 1
History HL Paper 2
History HL Paper 3
German SL Paper 1
German SL Paper 2 (reading comp)
German SL Paper 2 (listening)
English Lit HL Paper 1
English Lit HL Paper 2
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 1
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 2
Mathematics Analysis HL Paper 3
Chemistry SL Paper 1 (1a and 1b)
Chemistry SL Paper 2

Could you explain a little bit more about these exams? Are they taking on 16 separate days? How long is each exam? What type of format?

Each exam is usually 90 to 120 minutes, sometimes as long as 2.5 hours. There is a morning and an afternoon session each day over the course of three weeks. Sometimes two exams per session. My kid had exams on 10 different days, with the most grueling day being two exams in the morning and two in the afternoon.