State report says 7 Virginia universities should be monitored as enrollment cliff approaches

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Unfortunately, racism isn’t antiquated.

Was closing Sweetbriar due to racism? Or was it because it was a financially failing school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

There is plenty of literature the could be helpful.

PSA. This sentence identifies you as not knowledgeable, intelligent or helpful. You don't even cite anything. You just say "literature." Anyone reading this thinks that you are trying to insult but actually just saying nothing; the fact that you don't see that means that you are not intelligent. Moreover, it is not helpful at all, and really makes you look like an ignorant know-it-all. Just so you know in case you use this phrase often.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Unfortunately, racism isn’t antiquated.

+1
And I say this as a middle aged practically translucent white lady

I see the value in HBCUs. MD has several of them - one in the DC area, in fact.

I also see the value in women’s colleges. I really liked one for my child, but she wound up going to a small coed school.

So we should just continue having the taxpayer fund schools that fewer and fewer students want to attend? Nope.
DP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

There is plenty of literature the could be helpful.

PSA. This sentence identifies you as not knowledgeable, intelligent or helpful. You don't even cite anything. You just say "literature." Anyone reading this thinks that you are trying to insult but actually just saying nothing; the fact that you don't see that means that you are not intelligent. Moreover, it is not helpful at all, and really makes you look like an ignorant know-it-all. Just so you know in case you use this phrase often.

You’re not following the literature?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Well, there goes my idea of a university just for Eskimos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Unfortunately, racism isn’t antiquated.

Was closing Sweetbriar due to racism? Or was it because it was a financially failing school?

Equinophobia. But it's not closed.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t count t these schools out yet. There’s a tiny piece of me that is happy to hear this. I have a very average kid (and not DCUM/Lake Wobegon average) and we have visited some of these and we would be thrilled to have him go to CNU or UMW - smaller schools, special attention to the students, nice facilities, and in-state tuition for this donut hole family - won’t qualify for financial aid, won’t get merit, and can’t afford to write $100k checks each year for a small private school. I keep getting afraid that as costs increase, it is getting harder for students to get into the top tiers of Virginia schools so they will be going to the next tier, leaving less room for kids like mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Unfortunately, racism isn’t antiquated.

Was closing Sweetbriar due to racism? Or was it because it was a financially failing school?

Equinophobia. But it's not closed.

Seriously, Sweet Briar is still open

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Unfortunately, racism isn’t antiquated.

Was closing Sweetbriar due to racism? Or was it because it was a financially failing school?

Equinophobia. But it's not closed.

Seriously, Sweet Briar is still open

Sweet Briar is on hospice care. Alive but terminal. After the aborted closing 10 years ago, the statement enrollment goal was to get back to 600 women. They are currently around 450 and the graduating class of 2024 was 90 women. The entering class of 2028 has 133 women. they have huge attrition because of limited class offering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Unfortunately, racism isn’t antiquated.

Was closing Sweetbriar due to racism? Or was it because it was a financially failing school?

Equinophobia. But it's not closed.

Seriously, Sweet Briar is still open

Sweet Briar is on hospice care. Alive but terminal. After the aborted closing 10 years ago, the statement enrollment goal was to get back to 600 women. They are currently around 450 and the graduating class of 2024 was 90 women. The entering class of 2028 has 133 women. they have huge attrition because of limited class offering.

450 is better than 300 a few years back

I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I am pulling for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

HBCUs seem very antiquated in 2024. Basing universities on race just seems weird these days. Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse will always be a thing, but it's still weird. I can't imagine any other race having racially exclusive colleges. It's not 1950 anymore. It's odd.

Unfortunately, racism isn’t antiquated.

Was closing Sweetbriar due to racism? Or was it because it was a financially failing school?

Sweetbriar isn’t a hbcu

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

DP. I would say it's your posts that show a lack of understanding. What the PP is saying makes perfect sense. First, why can't these students attend typical four-year universities that enroll students of all races? Secondly, plenty of students decide to take the community college route to a guaranteed admission at a four-year college - not necessarily because they "were deemed not good enough," but often because they want a cheaper route to that four-yr. degree and CC is one way to accomplish that. It has nothing to do with race and it's strange that you seem so defensive about closing unpopular and unsuccessful schools merely because they have the "HBCU" label. Every state school in VA has a vibrant black community and associated organizations.

You can’t seriously think this has nothing to do with race. Do you really not get it or are you trying to cover up the racial undertones?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

DP. I would say it's your posts that show a lack of understanding. What the PP is saying makes perfect sense. First, why can't these students attend typical four-year universities that enroll students of all races? Secondly, plenty of students decide to take the community college route to a guaranteed admission at a four-year college - not necessarily because they "were deemed not good enough," but often because they want a cheaper route to that four-yr. degree and CC is one way to accomplish that. It has nothing to do with race and it's strange that you seem so defensive about closing unpopular and unsuccessful schools merely because they have the "HBCU" label. Every state school in VA has a vibrant black community and associated organizations.

You can’t seriously think this has nothing to do with race. Do you really not get it or are you trying to cover up the racial undertones?

Assume IPEDS is right. I think it’s wrong but let’s assume it’s right and the state pays $277 million to VSU tomorrow and the money is put to good use on programs and facilities. Do you think that the enrollment decline is going to reverse itself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

DP. I would say it's your posts that show a lack of understanding. What the PP is saying makes perfect sense. First, why can't these students attend typical four-year universities that enroll students of all races? Secondly, plenty of students decide to take the community college route to a guaranteed admission at a four-year college - not necessarily because they "were deemed not good enough," but often because they want a cheaper route to that four-yr. degree and CC is one way to accomplish that. It has nothing to do with race and it's strange that you seem so defensive about closing unpopular and unsuccessful schools merely because they have the "HBCU" label. Every state school in VA has a vibrant black community and associated organizations.

You can’t seriously think this has nothing to do with race. Do you really not get it or are you trying to cover up the racial undertones?

Assume IPEDS is right. I think it’s wrong but let’s assume it’s right and the state pays $277 million to VSU tomorrow and the money is put to good use on programs and facilities. Do you think that the enrollment decline is going to reverse itself?

Yes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also from the same report....

https://wtop.com/education/2024/10/3-virginia-universities-with-some-viability-risks-study-finds/
"On Monday, Sen. Mamie Locke, D-Hampton, questioned if the risks against Virginia State have any connection to the institution not being funded to the same levels as Virginia Tech after the federal government estimated a year ago that VSU is owed over $277 million in state funding from 1987 to 2020.

Like Virginia Tech, the historically Black college in Petersburg is a land grant institution.

“It’s an HBCU and this state is known for not having funded HBCUs to the levels that they should be funded,” Locke said."


Virginia continues to underfund public schools.

Virginia State gets $18,991 per in-state FTE student in general fund appropriations (state revenues appropriated for the institution). Virginia Tech gets $9,480 per in-state FTE.

https://research.schev.edu/info/Reports.Guide-to-the-Finance-Policy-Reports

A few years of increased pupil funding doesn’t reflect the many decades of underfunding - by millions & millions of dollars.

Virginia State has been getting significantly more per FTE for many years.

You think that’s enough even though their facilities are in terrible shape compared to VT, VCU, etc.?

Virginia State has gotten more per FTE from the state than VT for many years. It is still struggling because it doesn't pull in as much money per FTE from other non state sources like net tuition and fees. Other non HBCUs in Virginia have the same issue.

No, it's not funding issue. It could have all the funding. All new facilities. And still it would struggle. Like many HBCUs it has a low graduation rate. It has a 90% acceptance rate and has pretty low admission standards. High achieving Black students are not going to select this school. They have too many other options. Even slight above average students are not selecting it. Employers are not going to seek out graduates of this school.

They shouldn't try and compete with other state school but instead focus on the program they offer that other schools don't which is Agriculture. They could modernized the curriculum ,and recruit more widely , they could attract some students. They could also partner with Tech to offer a transfer program for that degree. Or establish an animal studies degree and provide a pathway into VA tech vet school. This would attract a higher achieving more diverse student body.

It would be in a much different place today if it were funded like VT from the start.

It’s just another example of systemic racism that has long-lasting impacts to present day.

Of course, Republicans don’t want to fix it. They want to pretend like there is no problem here at all. They don’t value public education, especially for HBCUs.

DP. Well, that’s utter BS. Why should the state pour money into schools that most black people don’t want to attend? The two HBCUs in VA being discussed here are not attractive to black students, who have a wealth of other universities in-state to choose from. It’s 2024. Why are you advocating for racial segregation?

Relatedly, these HBCUs were from a time when southern states were claiming separate but equal yet everyone knew they weren’t. At the grade school and high school level, the segregated schools were not kept open - the systems merged together. Why did the same thing not happen with colleges?

You are very naive if you think K-12 schools are no longer segregated. Wow

^^stuff I never said and don’t think^^

De jure elementary and high schools were not kept open. They merged. VSU and NSU were de jure schools yet were kept open.

If you want to have a discussion about de facto schools then let’s. But I suspect that the way to end the de facto segregated schools (among which are now VSU and NSU) is just to close them. But that doesn’t seem to be popular on this thread.

Where will their students go? We cant assume they will get in, be able to afford, or feel welcome at primarily white institutions. HBCU’s exist for a reason. If you want to advocate for them to close, what are you doing to ensure their students will find a new college?

What's a primarily white institution (Liberty??) and why would they not feel welcome at non-HBCU schools in general? I'm not pro-white advocacy on anything but if people can't succeed at cookie cutter 4 year publics, perhaps they aren't cut out for schools in general. The community colleges (are they white, too?) are a great affordable option in VA with guaranteed transfer admission to 4 year publics. Given that many HBCU are not competitive at all, I'd assume the rigor wouldn't be that different. Or perhaps some of these 4 year HBCU should just rebrand as residential 2 year specialized colleges with a 4 year option.

This shows a general lack of understanding. There is plenty of literature the could be helpful. However, community college isn’t the answer because historically that is where students were sent that were deemed not good enough. Even if the intentions are good in this case, surely you can see the optics of closing HBCU’s and sending their students to community college are bad.

DP. I would say it's your posts that show a lack of understanding. What the PP is saying makes perfect sense. First, why can't these students attend typical four-year universities that enroll students of all races? Secondly, plenty of students decide to take the community college route to a guaranteed admission at a four-year college - not necessarily because they "were deemed not good enough," but often because they want a cheaper route to that four-yr. degree and CC is one way to accomplish that. It has nothing to do with race and it's strange that you seem so defensive about closing unpopular and unsuccessful schools merely because they have the "HBCU" label. Every state school in VA has a vibrant black community and associated organizations.

You can’t seriously think this has nothing to do with race. Do you really not get it or are you trying to cover up the racial undertones?

Assume IPEDS is right. I think it’s wrong but let’s assume it’s right and the state pays $277 million to VSU tomorrow and the money is put to good use on programs and facilities. Do you think that the enrollment decline is going to reverse itself?

Yes

NP. Look around this very forum. All people care about are rankings. Unless they find a way to shoot up the rankings (which they can't without being magically more selective), how?

All the declining schools in the US are in a Catch-22.