the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do schools not assign summer reading? My kids school gives a long list of books (prose and poetry) from which kids can choose. They have to read a certain number of books and are expected to write briefly about the reading they did over the summer. Both my kids have had some version of this every year at different schools since 4th grade. Seems like the kind of thing a parent could implement if schools aren't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

I will tell you that War and Peace is extremely interesting. I’ve read it four times.

An opinion. There is no factual answer when talking about art, literature, film or music.

I didn’t pick up on everything The first time reading it so I needed to reread it many times.

Hello undiagnosed ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parenting. Try it.

This is an indictment of our education system. If children aren’t reading entire books as part of a path to graduation, we as a society should be demanding more. I doubt these parents of students at elite universities are failing at their part in this…their kids are literally at an ivy.

Parents aren’t teachers, we all learned this in the pandemic.

If a book is assigned, and a kid didn't read it, that's on the kid and maybe the parent if the parent had a way of knowing the assignment; if the kid didn't read the books and managed to graduate with a 4.0UW? That's on the school.

Multiple posters are saying entire books are not required at their kids’ schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parenting. Try it.

This is an indictment of our education system. If children aren’t reading entire books as part of a path to graduation, we as a society should be demanding more. I doubt these parents of students at elite universities are failing at their part in this…their kids are literally at an ivy.

Parents aren’t teachers, we all learned this in the pandemic.

If a book is assigned, and a kid didn't read it, that's on the kid and maybe the parent if the parent had a way of knowing the assignment; if the kid didn't read the books and managed to graduate with a 4.0UW? That's on the school.

Multiple posters are saying entire books are not required at their kids’ schools.

Our school used to do summer reading, as in pick a book and do a report on it. Many kids just pulled summaries from the internet. It's too easy to get away with not doing things you don't like doing these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blame the proliferation of AP classes. The classes are inevitably structured to teach to the test, meaning zero books. It's a travesty.

I showed my senior the article and this was exactly her response!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 high school in DC and has read 50+ books cover-to-cover for class during high school.

This is large part of why parents pay for top private schools.

Don't you think it's an issue that you couldn't raise kids to read a book a month without paying for private school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

[Anonymous]

^^ lol for OP, I mean the protagonist wack job murderer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

Not true at all. He didn't murder one lady; there is a lot of romance etc. This is what people who haven't read the book think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

Not true at all. He didn't murder one lady; there is a lot of romance etc. This is what people who haven't read the book think.

I read it all. Pre-1900s romance is boooooring. I had to become middle-aged to understand how Pride & Prejudice could be romantic. C&P is an unhappy, depressing book all the way through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the proliferation of AP classes. The classes are inevitably structured to teach to the test, meaning zero books. It's a travesty.

I showed my senior the article and this was exactly her response!

Ugh. So true! I went to a rigorous prep school and my kid goes to JR. Her first AP is totally like copy the textbook, make note cards and memorize. I don’t see any regular books, essays or research (requiring books) assigned. It’s really a travesty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DC is taking AP Language this year (11th), and the teacher had them read Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell over the summer. DC enjoyed it and said the class discussion and spin-off wring assignments have been great! But …

At Open House / meet the teacher night, DC’s teacher said for the rest of the year the class will be reading non-fiction book EXCERPTS and articles and editorials. Is this normal for AP Lang??

Hopefully AP Lit will be different. A steady stream of actual full-length books, right? That’s what I remember from back in my day (the 90s).

AP Lang is a nonfiction course (although many districts try to shoehorn in American Lit). The essays are based on speeches or excerpts from memoirs, etc. hence your teacher's emphasis on short form. Most Lang teachers do include whole books, though. My class will read between 6-8 whole books this year. But remember that many schools are removing expectations for homework, so by definition, class time limits what they will read. I am regularly called out on AP teacher forums because I still assign summer reading.

The situation is going to get much worse than what is described in The Atlantic piece in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

Just curious...do you teach class that is purely optional for a student, or one that a student "has to take".

NP - my college kids report many/most kids in class playing games on their laptop and using ChatGPT to formulate an answer to a professor's question so they can get participation points. Pretty good school, although not an Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

NP. Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I’ve ever read. So so good. Have re-read it several times. Never read War and Peace so I can’t comment there.

My nerdy kid read C&P for school, liked it, and W&P to while away the boredom while at summer camp in middle school. He didn't really like it, but he read it and understood it enough to have an opinion. You don't have to like all the books, but reading them matters.

Reading books matters…not any particular book. Sure, it needs to be a legit book, but if C&P isn’t your thing, then read The Hobbit (or insert one of literally thousands of books here).

Did you finish the Atlantic piece? Ivy League kids saying that their favorite book is Percy Jackson. Umm... some books are better than others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 high school in DC and has read 50+ books cover-to-cover for class during high school.

This is large part of why parents pay for top private schools.

Don't you think it's an issue that you couldn't raise kids to read a book a month without paying for private school?

How do you know my kid didn't read separately from the assigned reading at Sidwell? Because he did, and does. Sidwell was worth it, if only because I can read this Atlantic article and confidently say that it doesn't apply to my kid. That's worth quite a lot. (NP)