the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blame the proliferation of AP classes. The classes are inevitably structured to teach to the test, meaning zero books. It's a travesty.

No. It is the DEI push. Homework is being considered inequitable, which means that you must accomplish everything within your class hours.

My AP classes still do summer reading and plenty of whole books, but that's because I give homework.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

NP. Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I’ve ever read. So so good. Have re-read it several times. Never read War and Peace so I can’t comment there.

My nerdy kid read C&P for school, liked it, and W&P to while away the boredom while at summer camp in middle school. He didn't really like it, but he read it and understood it enough to have an opinion. You don't have to like all the books, but reading them matters.

Reading books matters…not any particular book. Sure, it needs to be a legit book, but if C&P isn’t your thing, then read The Hobbit (or insert one of literally thousands of books here).

Did you finish the Atlantic piece? Ivy League kids saying that their favorite book is Percy Jackson. Umm... some books are better than others.

Are they? NY Times and many literary critics almost universally praised the first book in the series published.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the proliferation of AP classes. The classes are inevitably structured to teach to the test, meaning zero books. It's a travesty.

I showed my senior the article and this was exactly her response!

Ugh. So true! I went to a rigorous prep school and my kid goes to JR. Her first AP is totally like copy the textbook, make note cards and memorize. I don’t see any regular books, essays or research (requiring books) assigned. It’s really a travesty.

Did you build an addition or renovate your home in the last decade?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

NP. Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I’ve ever read. So so good. Have re-read it several times. Never read War and Peace so I can’t comment there.

My nerdy kid read C&P for school, liked it, and W&P to while away the boredom while at summer camp in middle school. He didn't really like it, but he read it and understood it enough to have an opinion. You don't have to like all the books, but reading them matters.

Reading books matters…not any particular book. Sure, it needs to be a legit book, but if C&P isn’t your thing, then read The Hobbit (or insert one of literally thousands of books here).

Did you finish the Atlantic piece? Ivy League kids saying that their favorite book is Percy Jackson. Umm... some books are better than others.

Are they? NY Times and many literary critics almost universally praised the first book in the series published.

Percy Jackson is written for kids. Read it for fun on the beach if you want, but don't think it substitutes for books that challenge.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

NP. Crime and Punishment is one of the best books I’ve ever read. So so good. Have re-read it several times. Never read War and Peace so I can’t comment there.

My nerdy kid read C&P for school, liked it, and W&P to while away the boredom while at summer camp in middle school. He didn't really like it, but he read it and understood it enough to have an opinion. You don't have to like all the books, but reading them matters.

Reading books matters…not any particular book. Sure, it needs to be a legit book, but if C&P isn’t your thing, then read The Hobbit (or insert one of literally thousands of books here).

Did you finish the Atlantic piece? Ivy League kids saying that their favorite book is Percy Jackson. Umm... some books are better than others.

Are they? NY Times and many literary critics almost universally praised the first book in the series published.

Percy Jackson is written for kids. Read it for fun on the beach if you want, but don't think it substitutes for books that challenge.

The reviews said it’s for teens. It’s not a surprise that it would be a teenager’s favorite book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

DP. Read Crime and Punishment in high school and it still ranks as one of my all time favorites. It’s phenomenal.

I read it in high school and hated it. My friends invented some in-jokes off of it and that was the best part.

Spoiler. There's a wack job who murders an old lady and that's basically the only interesting scene in 300 pages. The rest is a bunch of dull policing and OP having recriminations and delirious sweats.

And I liked Moby Dick even though it has tons of filler. So it's not that I can't handle a bit of tedium with my great literature.

The great Russian novels should be left for college.

Not true at all. He didn't murder one lady; there is a lot of romance etc. This is what people who haven't read the book think.

I read it all. Pre-1900s romance is boooooring. I had to become middle-aged to understand how Pride & Prejudice could be romantic. C&P is an unhappy, depressing book all the way through.

No, it is actually kind of uplifting towards the end. You clearly don't remember anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DC is taking AP Language this year (11th), and the teacher had them read Outliers, by Malcolm Gladwell over the summer. DC enjoyed it and said the class discussion and spin-off wring assignments have been great! But …

At Open House / meet the teacher night, DC’s teacher said for the rest of the year the class will be reading non-fiction book EXCERPTS and articles and editorials. Is this normal for AP Lang??

Hopefully AP Lit will be different. A steady stream of actual full-length books, right? That’s what I remember from back in my day (the 90s).

AP Lang is a nonfiction course (although many districts try to shoehorn in American Lit). The essays are based on speeches or excerpts from memoirs, etc. hence your teacher's emphasis on short form. Most Lang teachers do include whole books, though. My class will read between 6-8 whole books this year. But remember that many schools are removing expectations for homework, so by definition, class time limits what they will read. I am regularly called out on AP teacher forums because I still assign summer reading.

The situation is going to get much worse than what is described in The Atlantic piece in a few years.

Yes, my dd got a 4 on AP Lang and they did not read a single book in class. This year for AP Lit they read Never Let Me Go over the summer. Not sure if more books are planned. She does read a lot on her own.

[Anonymous]

What kind of crap schools do you send your kids to? Mine has had summer reading and math assignments since 3rd grade. They always had to take quizzes on their summer reading in the first week back at school. Starting in 6th grade, they also had essays to write for summer reading to be turned in the first week of school. These were their first grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blame the proliferation of AP classes. The classes are inevitably structured to teach to the test, meaning zero books. It's a travesty.

No. It is the DEI push. Homework is being considered inequitable, which means that you must accomplish everything within your class hours.

My AP classes still do summer reading and plenty of whole books, but that's because I give homework.

This tracks. A friend teaches in a district where summer reading was deemed I equitable. I can’t follow the reasoning, but I guess it might really boil down to no money for books that might not be returned.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

+1000 (from another professor)

Whose fault is that? My child is a senior. DC has has, maybe, 6 required books over middle and HS. They don't teach note taking, typing, computer skills as part of the basic education. They are given study guides. They are given extra credit, retakes, etc. They don't use textbooks. This is what they are used to and what they expect.

This is not all on the kids.

Nope. It's on schools and parents.

Nope what?

Other than making kids read at home, these things in the PP are purely the schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/

Students at elite universities such as Columbia are showing up to campus unable to read books. They've only read excerpts their entire school career. Many also struggle to write effectively. In response, many Columbia teachers have to water down the curriculum.

My 17 year old daughter reads all the time, she goes through 6-8 books a month for pleasure. She’s a senior and has a heavy course load. Reading is what she likes to do when taking a break. You know what we never let her do? Watch TV with any regularity. And her internet access on her phone was highly controlled with time limits.

The problem isn’t schools, it’s parents unwilling to limit screen time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish you guys could see the students in my college classes that I teach. They lack the ability to take notes. They don’t read the textbook. They panic before a test and want a study guide defining exactly what is on the test. They do not want to study any information more than what is on the test. They will ask you questions the morning of the exam. They ask for extra credit. The quality of the student skill set has plummeted in the last 20 years. They are used to fill-in-the-blank guided notes from middle and high school. They are used to re-takes. And, they never see textbooks. It’s easy to ignore the soft copy textbook—why read that? —signed a professor.

These are public school students. None of that describes private school policies at all. My kid’s first study guide came IN college.

Sure, it’s always the public school kids. You sound insufferable.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kid goes to a Big3 high school in DC and has read 50+ books cover-to-cover for class during high school.

This is large part of why parents pay for top private schools.

Don't you think it's an issue that you couldn't raise kids to read a book a month without paying for private school?

How do you know my kid didn't read separately from the assigned reading at Sidwell? Because he did, and does. Sidwell was worth it, if only because I can read this Atlantic article and confidently say that it doesn't apply to my kid. That's worth quite a lot. (NP)

Public school parents don't need to spend $100s of K to make sure their kids have reading skills. You paid a lot to indulge your emotional need to avoid panicking about an Atlantic article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some on DCUM argue the kids in the top schools are the best of the best. Others argue they can't read books without getting confused.

If you read the article you would see that the kids in the top schools are reading more books than public school kids

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

War & Peace is VERY interesting, I feel sorry for you that you've never read it. It remains and I suspect always will remain one of the greatest works of literature ever crafted.

The same is true of Crime & Punishment.

If I had to be stranded on a deserted island with a single crate of books, you can bet that everything ever written by Dostoevsky and Tolstoy would be in that crate.

Honestly it makes me sad to think of you living your whole life and never learning to appreciate those two novels, or any of the other brilliant works by two of the greatest writers who ever drew breath on this planet. You must not have any real interest in humanity if you have no interest in Russian literature.

Not PP and not going to argue with you about the aforementioned books—but you sound patronizing AF. You must not have any interest in humanity if you have no interest in Russian literature?!! Holy hyperbole. One of the really cool things about reading is that it can open up people’s minds about others whose lives/values/likes/dislikes are vastly different than their own…. It might even lead them to make less sweeping generalizations about people based on, I don’t know, which books they’ve read/enjoyed.