APS Current cell phones reality

[Anonymous]

I’m surprised there are 10 pages of postings on this. Other than kids who need apps to control their medical equipment, what exactly is the need for a child to have a phone accessible at all times? Put it away, and keep it away.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:This reminds me of the post on AEM right now about dress code. What the hell is going on? Parents want their kids to be able to wear whatever they want to school and have their cell phones in class. This is freaking crazy.

Funny. I actually would like to know why it’s fine to ban cell phones but it’s not okay to ban sports bras as a shirt.

I’d like to ban them both. We don’t need cell phones nor to see anyone’s underwear in a classroom. But I just can’t believe that as parents we can’t agree on that. It should nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with what is best for our kids. Insane.

If your child’s phone is harming them, you should definitely take it away! But you don’t want to hear them complain to you about it.

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I like dress codes in school. I am all for a cell phone ban. FWIW, I also parent my child, but a lot of people don’t. I want schools to be able to focus on teaching and learning.

Me too. We could start with enforcing the current rules before making new ones.

They actually are rules we have. But look at the reaction when we take steps toward enforcing. A reaction I don’t understand. If your kid is so good and not on the phone- what exactly is the problem??

+1 the whole problem is that we haven’t had a PIP. So these have been the rules but teachers can’t enforce when parents push back. Like they are here.

Maybe PP’s kid are perfect but lots aren’t.

+1 the PIP lays down the rules so teachers have back up when they enforce. They’re not new or a total ban.

they will be a total ban in the pouch schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

DP but no, my kids have NEVER complained about other kids' phone use. Does not bother them at all. They DID complain about the new rules and relayed teachers' complaints too! Sounds like a lot of wasted time is being spent on these new rules.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

Yes it feels like a punishment to take away the device my child uses to organize his life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

DP but no, my kids have NEVER complained about other kids' phone use. Does not bother them at all. They DID complain about the new rules and relayed teachers' complaints too! Sounds like a lot of wasted time is being spent on these new rules.

Oh if YOUR kids are fine….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

Yes it feels like a punishment to take away the device my child uses to organize his life.

So without her phone she will forget what class to go to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

My kid has a Pinwheel phone. She hasn't gotten around it yet, but it's very limited.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

My kid has a Pinwheel phone. She hasn't gotten around it yet, but it's very limited.

For a high schooler?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

My kid has a Pinwheel phone. She hasn't gotten around it yet, but it's very limited.

For a high schooler?

If my HS ever got in trouble for phone use, that would be their new phone!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

DP here. The screentime/downtime function on any Apple phone. You can't get around it without the password, which I change regularly. On top of that, I regularly check their actual screentime and apps used because if they managed to correctly guess the password (in under 5 tries without locking the phone, not likely) then I would see what apps they used when and for how long.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

My kid has a Pinwheel phone. She hasn't gotten around it yet, but it's very limited.

For a high schooler?

It has texting, Spotify, Google maps, Google calendar, Google pay, Google translate, Gmail, a calculator, a weather app and Canvas. That's a pretty good list. You can add other apps, but it certainly has many of the basics covered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

DP here. The screentime/downtime function on any Apple phone. You can't get around it without the password, which I change regularly. On top of that, I regularly check their actual screentime and apps used because if they managed to correctly guess the password (in under 5 tries without locking the phone, not likely) then I would see what apps they used when and for how long.

Sounds like your kid is following your rules, which is great but heads up to other parents that kids can delete an app re-download it and it will be taken off of screen time controls. And it makes it look like they had no screen time on that app.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

DP here. The screentime/downtime function on any Apple phone. You can't get around it without the password, which I change regularly. On top of that, I regularly check their actual screentime and apps used because if they managed to correctly guess the password (in under 5 tries without locking the phone, not likely) then I would see what apps they used when and for how long.

Sounds like your kid is following your rules, which is great but heads up to other parents that kids can delete an app re-download it and it will be taken off of screen time controls. And it makes it look like they had no screen time on that app.

It would have to be an app they already had though, because any new app downloaded is automatically downloaded to every device in the family. So I would notice if Instagram or Tiktok suddenly appeared. And my kids are also well aware that any shenanigans like this would result in swift and total removal of their devices, and not just for a week or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Its fascinating to me how angry the pro-phone group is. They are claiming everyone who wants phones out of schools are MAGA or whatever.

First off, we are a very liberal family, and we are 100% with no phones in school.

I still haven't heard why kids need their phones in school, just screeds about how its punishment not to have them or why we can't police our own kids.

That's the thing. We can police our own kids, mine are very mindful of the phone (i screentime them and see their usage during the day) -- but half the kids in the school are checked out on their phone, and it makes it so you have to go on your phone or you look like some weirdo trying to make friends IRL. How quaint. Its a culture now where everyone is ignoring each other and on their phones, to do otherwise flirts with social catastrophe.

If we are letting kids have phones all day in school, why not let them have Nintendos, DVD players, lego sets, or whatever. Everything has a time and place, and school is for focused learning -- and the attention stealing of a phone, which has been shown to be more enthralling then using a laptop, needs to be halted.

One thing of note, all the top private schools have been banning phones to a much larger degree, often all day long. And they have a much easier time monitoring in class violations because of much smaller classes and the real threat of expulsion -- and yet they still do widespread bans. They know their students performance will drop if they let them become 'zombies' and that is their top priority.

I also think it’s funny how no phones is now being considered some MAGA. I always associate no phones/low tech with the liberal , granola type parents

Granola, parent here, and I’m still trying to understand why people are so adamant having phones in school? Every time I ask, I just get insulted rather than an answer

They are very anxious about not being able to reach their child 24/7 at a moments notice. Various other reasons are given but it comes down to parental anxiety.

I am anti-ban and don't talk or text with my children during the day. The real parental anxiety is that you haven't taught your kids how to use their phone responsibly, yet somehow you give it to them anyway...

And your reason for them needing cell phones...?

I see no reason for them not to have their phones. Their grades and social skills are excellent and its not been an issue for years. There is no reason to take their phones away because other kids can't handle it. It feels punitive to them and that they are not trusted when they have done nothing wrong. Punish the kids breaking the (already existing) rules about phone use at school.

So your reason is that your kids deserve to have their phones? But why? They can learn to live without for a few hours a day.

This. If the policy "feels like a punishment" it sounds to me like they have been using their phone a lot at school, regardless of what they are telling you. Even if they are the absolute perfect phone user, they would still benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules. This is a collective problem that needs a collective solution. She can text you and her friends and update TikTok after school.

She doesn’t have tik tok and she doesn’t break the rules, not now or when the new policy comes into place. It’s just sad and makes the good kids feel invisible. I guess you can’t relate.

My kid doesn't use their phone at school because I have it heavily locked down with a parental control app (kid w/ ADHD needs it for after-school communication) but I recognize it's not about individual parenting decisions or any one child's ability or inability to follow the rules as they've previously been implemented (i.e. highly variable).

I notice you completely ignored the PP comment about how even the rule-followers "benefit from a school culture where all the kids are freed from the phones and can interact without them and their classes don't have to be derailed by teachers constantly looking for/having conflict with classmates over breaking the rules." Doesn't it frustrate your rule-follower that she has to see kids not following the rules, that teachers and classmates are distracted by it? Locking them down helps everyone. You still haven't answered why this policy is seen as so punishing to a kid who isn't already using their phone too much at school.

What app are you using? I have not found one that the kids can’t get around.

DP here. The screentime/downtime function on any Apple phone. You can't get around it without the password, which I change regularly. On top of that, I regularly check their actual screentime and apps used because if they managed to correctly guess the password (in under 5 tries without locking the phone, not likely) then I would see what apps they used when and for how long.

Sounds like your kid is following your rules, which is great but heads up to other parents that kids can delete an app re-download it and it will be taken off of screen time controls. And it makes it look like they had no screen time on that app.

Which is why screentime allows you to prevent app install or deletion. This is a solved problem.

Now they can get around downtime if you have guided access enabled, but they have to commit to that one app.