Word of caution for aspiring CS majors

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Get a liberal arts degree (economics and something soft) from the highest ranked school you can.

Recruiting for finance, consulting, and corporate /strategy roles are much much easier if you are in English and economics major coming from Rice or Vanderbilt or Emory compared to CS at Purdue…..

Ask around people!!!

This. College is not trade school, despite the pervasive and lingering lower middle class belief to the contrary.

This is 2024, not 1954, despite how some elite people want to think it is. College is no longer about a liberal art education, and then get some job because you have a degree. That's 1954 thinking. This is not how it works today, in 2024.

As thé decades pass, the liberal arts majors will have a better understanding of the world and how it works that the person who is not interested in anything that isn’t tech or tech-related. The non liberal arts major won’t even realize what they can’t understand because of their lack of knowledge of history, arts, and humanities. Old age will be difficult for them because they just. won’t. get. it.

That's your imagination.
The employers who actually pay don't agree with your imagination.
The employers who pay are the ones matter.

You are entitled to your view as I am to mine.

Note my spouse and I both graduated with humanities majors from a T10 university.

Our combined annual income averages between $4.5-6million a year.
We are definitely not alone.

That much in income and you're on DCUM?

Yeah....right. And I'm Elon Musk.

You’d be surprised….and I’m not even in DC!

Why do people who don’t live in the dmv go on DCUM?

Better question, how many posters are in the DMV? I'll guess 1 in 4, tops.

I think it's more like 3 in 4. Maybe this thread is skewed, but not the overall site. But it's not 75% non-DMV considering how many posts you will get to any thread about whether the Big3 schools are doing better or worse with college admissions.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Again the data doesn't agree with your imagination.

Harvard english major 4 year out median salary = $49,675
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?166027-Harvard-University&fos_code=2301&fos_credential=3

I have no doubt the average pay is lower. Many English majors want to go into lower paying fields like journalism, teaching, etc. But I guarantee you that English majors from Harvard who want to do into finance, tech, or consulting can do so pretty easily. I know plenty of kids from T20 schools who did.

This is absolutely not true when you look at the backgrounds of people working in finance, tech and consulting. It is dominated by quantitative majors, and it is absolutely not "easy" for a Harvard English major to get one of these jobs.

More accurately, a Harvard English major may have a 15% of getting one of those jobs while a UMD English Major probably has a less than 1% of getting such a job. Almost always even that English major had to take some real classes that proved their quantitative abilities (and likely a parent forced them to take so they may have a shot at a job).

Completely agree on taking quantitative classes. My daughter, a humanities major, got four offers from a combination of MBB consulting firms and investment banks. Although she was not a STEM major, she was careful to demonstrate interest and STEM skills by taking math, financial accounting, computer science, and business classes. It worked. She did go to a top school though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:what about electrical or mechanical engineering?

If the kid played with Erector sets and assembled radios for fun: Sure.

If the kid has no interests and is just trying to make money, the answer is accounting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Very soon the CS degree will be considered obsolete

+100

The real math as symbolic logic CS-type degree will always be relevant. The “I have no interest in CS, but I love money” CS degree was obsolete from the start.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get a liberal arts degree (economics and something soft) from the highest ranked school you can.

Recruiting for finance, consulting, and corporate /strategy roles are much much easier if you are in English and economics major coming from Rice or Vanderbilt or Emory compared to CS at Purdue…..

Ask around people!!!

This. College is not trade school, despite the pervasive and lingering lower middle class belief to the contrary.

This is 2024, not 1954, despite how some elite people want to think it is. College is no longer about a liberal art education, and then get some job because you have a degree. That's 1954 thinking. This is not how it works today, in 2024.

As thé decades pass, the liberal arts majors will have a better understanding of the world and how it works that the person who is not interested in anything that isn’t tech or tech-related. The non liberal arts major won’t even realize what they can’t understand because of their lack of knowledge of history, arts, and humanities. Old age will be difficult for them because they just. won’t. get. it.

This is pure unadulterated nonsense.

STEM majors have 30% or more of their course work in history, arts and humanities in college. It is the humanities majors who end up having a very narrow education.

How many courses do you need in history, arts and humanities? Do you need to major in history to understand world history?

Agree 100%. Furthermore you can get a fine understanding of history arts and humanities just by doing your own reading without taking any college courses in them at all. The same approach would not work with STEM.

[Anonymous]

The issue is tech companies in general are doing layoffs. So that's going to affect the job market at both entry level and more experienced levels.

I know 3 friends in large tech companies that have been laid off in the last 6 months.

More examples:
https://www.siliconvalley.com/2024/04/19/bay-area-economy-tech-job-cut-layoff-sap-checkr-employ-meta-google/

[Anonymous]

You do not need a degree in CS to work in IT.

That’s why the market is saturated. Get a degree in finance so you can have a background in financial applications. Get a degree in English and do technical writing.

Get a degree in math and be an analyst or SME.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

I am a CIO and lead AI at my company. There is not a single job that has been "gobbled up by AI" in my company, no less the CS jobs. That is absurb. AI is nascent. Right now many tech firms are not on a hiring spree. Its not the "end of CS", it a cycle just like any others and kids with no experience are going to have to hustle to get jobs - or may have to wait. Your new-grad CS is a lot of work generally, the ROI takes a while to kick in. My own kid is a CS major (still in school) and I can't think of a better major - you will not find ANY major out there being courted by 10 firms right now. Its the hiring climate. You think you will fare better as a history or english major? You wont. The best advice for any major is try to get internships - that is insurance policy. Every year my kid gets an invite to return to his prior internship and it gives him real breathing room to pursue something with a different company because he knows he has a plan b. If you kid has never gotten in the door anywhere, that is going to be a little rougher getting that first job. Work your connections.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CS + business = best results.

I got a BBA, then went back to school to study CS. That's when my salary sky rocketed.

I would advise do a Business degree with a CS minor, or vice versa.

That’s basically Information Systems or Info Science. They are also less competitive to get in to. Checks the same education box as CS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You do not need a degree in CS to work in IT.

That’s why the market is saturated. Get a degree in finance so you can have a background in financial applications. Get a degree in English and do technical writing.

Get a degree in math and be an analyst or SME.

Not really. Majority of the IT jobs will have simple education requirement. BS in CS or Information Systems. Sometimes in Math. I work in large IT firm and the only times we’ll even consider interviewing someone with non tech degree is if they have years and years of experience. A degree in English will not help you in any way to become a technical writer. You would need to have deep technical knowledge of systems architecture, software design, information security, etc etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That's why my kid is double majoring with math. Hoping for options...just in case.

My kid is also a double major in math and CS, but only because they love math. I don't think a math major in and of itself is lucrative.

+1

Being a math major is not lucrative. Very true.

Going into actuarial science is or using math In analysis and logic in IT is lucrative. Just having a degree is better than no degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just returned from a college reunion, and my friends' kids who majored in CS and graduated last year and this year are all un- or under-employed. It seems pretty obvious to me that low-level CS jobs are the first to be gobbled up by AI. If you go to a top school, it truly does not matter what you major in. Most of those kids who want top jobs in tech, finance, consulting will get them. Majoring in something skill-based is more important if you attend even a slightly lower-ranked school. This is why people work so hard to secure spots in the Ivy-plus schools.

Most low level IT jobs have been offshored for a while. But, yea, most grads from T20 CS schools will be ok. Maybe not the $150K starting salary with $80K bonus, ok, but they will get something decent that pays more than most humanities majors.

CS majors are not applying for low level IT jobs. CS is not IT.

So, what are CS majors doing? What kind of jobs are CS majors getting?

I’d love to know.

One of my brilliant friend's brilliant CS major kid didn't get any offer from any company a CS kid wants to work for. He'll be working at American Airlines. Two years ago, kids of his caliber were trying to decide between several top offers.

[Anonymous]

If you've two out of five from ability, connections, dedication, hustling, timing, you'll br fine no matter what you major in and from where.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do not need a degree in CS to work in IT.

That’s why the market is saturated. Get a degree in finance so you can have a background in financial applications. Get a degree in English and do technical writing.

Get a degree in math and be an analyst or SME.

Not really. Majority of the IT jobs will have simple education requirement. BS in CS or Information Systems. Sometimes in Math. I work in large IT firm and the only times we’ll even consider interviewing someone with non tech degree is if they have years and years of experience. A degree in English will not help you in any way to become a technical writer. You would need to have deep technical knowledge of systems architecture, software design, information security, etc etc.

That’s not true. A tech writer does not necessarily have to have deep technical knowledge of systems architecture, software design, information security. There are tech writers doing user documentation and online help, etc.