Discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict In Schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

NP - Are you trying to say that palestinians are not marginalized? Come on. No one is defending Hamas (they are terrorists!) but you seem to think jews in israel are the only ones suffering in this conflict.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

Extra points for alliteration , but yes, you are still a mere cog in the machine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

Extra points for alliteration , but yes, you are still a mere cog in the machine.

Your hyperbole is exhausting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

I was in the West Bank but not Gaza but as far as I know - you've been to none of the 3 places.

So visiting for a few days makes you an expert and I should just defer to your opinion? got it. my bad

It makes me have more real world experience than you and it just is what it is. People are not accepting that they don't know everything from what they read in the papers. My in laws lived in Israel before it was a country, and yes, I am getting info from them about the founding that isn't exactly what I am reading in the papers here.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

Extra points for alliteration , but yes, you are still a mere cog in the machine.

Your hyperbole is exhausting.

As is your gaslighting and copious tropes. Thoughts and prayers on your inner work. Thoughts and prayers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

I was in the West Bank but not Gaza but as far as I know - you've been to none of the 3 places.

So visiting for a few days makes you an expert and I should just defer to your opinion? got it. my bad

It makes me have more real world experience than you and it just is what it is. People are not accepting that they don't know everything from what they read in the papers. My in laws lived in Israel before it was a country, and yes, I am getting info from them about the founding that isn't exactly what I am reading in the papers here.

Oh the irony.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The topic came up today in one my Middle Schooler’s 6th grade classes. I honestly wish the teacher would have just moved along - based on the talking points my kid came home with. Curious what others heard from their kids. Do teachers have free rein in discussing this or is there some kind of official dcps guideline?

When I was in 6th grade - Catholic school in Canada - we had twin Lebanese boys join us midyear. Had just moved. One morning, they saw the letters PLO on the blackboard, meaning Please Leave On. Written by a teacher to make sure a janitor didn't erase a lesson. Well, that morning those two boys went ballistic. Throwing desks. Cursing. Yelling. In fairness, one of those boys had a bullet in his leg courtesy of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

What's happening today in Gaza and Israel is an extremely charged issue. It would be great if every DCPS teacher is totally informed about the history of the region and super-empathetic. But I suspect that's not the case. Given that this is DCPS, I suspect teachers would lean pro-Hamas, Israel is an apartheid state and blah blah blah, and it'd be very intimidating for a kid to think or feel otherwise.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

Extra points for alliteration , but yes, you are still a mere cog in the machine.

Your hyperbole is exhausting.

As is your gaslighting and copious tropes. Thoughts and prayers on your inner work. Thoughts and prayers.

No one is gaslighting. Your repeated attempts to classify anyone who dares sympathize with innocent Palestinian children AS WELL as Israeli children as antisemites are laughable. As we have repeatedly told you. No one here is supporting Hamas. We view them as terrorists. We think that what they did this weekend is horrendous. We also sympathize with a million children who live in Gaza and now have no food, water, or electricity. They are ALSO suffering. You might not and that's on you. So maybe pray for discernment while you're at it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The topic came up today in one my Middle Schooler’s 6th grade classes. I honestly wish the teacher would have just moved along - based on the talking points my kid came home with. Curious what others heard from their kids. Do teachers have free rein in discussing this or is there some kind of official dcps guideline?

When I was in 6th grade - Catholic school in Canada - we had twin Lebanese boys join us midyear. Had just moved. One morning, they saw the letters PLO on the blackboard, meaning Please Leave On. Written by a teacher to make sure a janitor didn't erase a lesson. Well, that morning those two boys went ballistic. Throwing desks. Cursing. Yelling. In fairness, one of those boys had a bullet in his leg courtesy of the Palestinian Liberation Organization.

What's happening today in Gaza and Israel is an extremely charged issue. It would be great if every DCPS teacher is totally informed about the history of the region and super-empathetic. But I suspect that's not the case. Given that this is DCPS, I suspect teachers would lean pro-Hamas, Israel is an apartheid state and blah blah blah, and it'd be very intimidating for a kid to think or feel otherwise.

Thank you for saying that. It is so refreshing to be seen and heard.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

Extra points for alliteration , but yes, you are still a mere cog in the machine.

Your hyperbole is exhausting.

As is your gaslighting and copious tropes. Thoughts and prayers on your inner work. Thoughts and prayers.

No one is gaslighting. Your repeated attempts to classify anyone who dares sympathize with innocent Palestinian children AS WELL as Israeli children as antisemites are laughable. As we have repeatedly told you. No one here is supporting Hamas. We view them as terrorists. We think that what they did this weekend is horrendous. We also sympathize with a million children who live in Gaza and now have no food, water, or electricity. They are ALSO suffering. You might not and that's on you. So maybe pray for discernment while you're at it?

Pretty sure your one poster and there are at least three people calling you out for your poor behavior/lack of moral compass. In any case, thoughts and prayers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

Extra points for alliteration , but yes, you are still a mere cog in the machine.

Your hyperbole is exhausting.

As is your gaslighting and copious tropes. Thoughts and prayers on your inner work. Thoughts and prayers.

No one is gaslighting. Your repeated attempts to classify anyone who dares sympathize with innocent Palestinian children AS WELL as Israeli children as antisemites are laughable. As we have repeatedly told you. No one here is supporting Hamas. We view them as terrorists. We think that what they did this weekend is horrendous. We also sympathize with a million children who live in Gaza and now have no food, water, or electricity. They are ALSO suffering. You might not and that's on you. So maybe pray for discernment while you're at it?

Pretty sure your one poster and there are at least three people calling you out for your poor behavior/lack of moral compass. In any case, thoughts and prayers.

Well you'd be wrong again. Feel free to have Jeff check.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

I was in the West Bank but not Gaza but as far as I know - you've been to none of the 3 places.

So visiting for a few days makes you an expert and I should just defer to your opinion? got it. my bad

It makes me have more real world experience than you and it just is what it is. People are not accepting that they don't know everything from what they read in the papers. My in laws lived in Israel before it was a country, and yes, I am getting info from them about the founding that isn't exactly what I am reading in the papers here.

Oh the irony.

What did you learn in college? My liberal arts education taught me that everything is biased. I spent lots of time with history and literature and learning about how even the supposedly objective news is biased.

Case in point with the Hamas attacks. We are all looking at the same thing. One side sees it as justifying everything Israel has been doing - this is why they do it - to try to prevent these terror attacks. The other side sees the exact same thing as - this is the result of what Israel has been doing - you reap what you sow (which incidentally is what someone said to me as an American on the streets of Argentina the day after 9/11 - most people were saddened about it - but you have to know the quote discussed here - one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter - is how other countries see the US as well. They see the US as the dark side, and al queda as the underdog freedom fighter).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

Your bad faith is boundless.

Extra points for alliteration , but yes, you are still a mere cog in the machine.

Your hyperbole is exhausting.

As is your gaslighting and copious tropes. Thoughts and prayers on your inner work. Thoughts and prayers.

No one is gaslighting. Your repeated attempts to classify anyone who dares sympathize with innocent Palestinian children AS WELL as Israeli children as antisemites are laughable. As we have repeatedly told you. No one here is supporting Hamas. We view them as terrorists. We think that what they did this weekend is horrendous. We also sympathize with a million children who live in Gaza and now have no food, water, or electricity. They are ALSO suffering. You might not and that's on you. So maybe pray for discernment while you're at it?

For what it's worth, as long as you say I acknowledge the hamas charter wants to kill all jews, and that is a major problem - i am mostly ok with whatever you say after that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.