Discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict In Schools

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

I was in the West Bank but not Gaza but as far as I know - you've been to none of the 3 places.

So visiting for a few days makes you an expert and I should just defer to your opinion? got it. my bad

It makes me have more real world experience than you and it just is what it is. People are not accepting that they don't know everything from what they read in the papers. My in laws lived in Israel before it was a country, and yes, I am getting info from them about the founding that isn't exactly what I am reading in the papers here.

Oh the irony.

What did you learn in college? My liberal arts education taught me that everything is biased. I spent lots of time with history and literature and learning about how even the supposedly objective news is biased.

Case in point with the Hamas attacks. We are all looking at the same thing. One side sees it as justifying everything Israel has been doing - this is why they do it - to try to prevent these terror attacks. The other side sees the exact same thing as - this is the result of what Israel has been doing - you reap what you sow (which incidentally is what someone said to me as an American on the streets of Argentina the day after 9/11 - most people were saddened about it - but you have to know the quote discussed here - one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter - is how other countries see the US as well. They see the US as the dark side, and al queda as the underdog freedom fighter).

Point me to the post in this thread that called Hamas freedom fighters. No one did. I certainly didn't.

The ONLY point that I have been trying to make is that there are innocent children on both sides who are suffering terribly as the result of what their parents, governments, etc have been doing for the past 70 years. I am not sure why so many of you have a hard time just saying a child, is a child is a child. No child should suffer. No child's suffering is more horrendous than the other. No child's suffering is justified.

A DCPS teacher said that.

I’m the PP whose child told them their teacher said that. I want to make clear that I can not verify that the teacher was referring to Hamas specifically or just generally referring to what terrorism is. The discussion evolved into a general one about the conflict and terrorism.

All I do know for sure is that my Jewish child was confused and hysterical about the whole discussion once they got home. We have family in Israel. The takeaway my child got from the whole discussion was NOT that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Even though full stop that’s what Hamas is. President Biden said it in his address. I showed my child the Presidents speech. There should be no confusion. No equivocation by teachers. The only thing that needed to be said yesterday (if anything at all) by a teacher is that Hamas committed a terrorist act against Jewish Israelis. Yesterday was not the time for a nuanced discussion on the intricacies of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

It baffles me that you think you should be able to own the entire conversation when Palestinian children are literally being blown to pieces in Gaza at this very moment.

It baffles me that you think we shouldn’t be able to talk about Jewish babies being literally beheaded without mentioning Palestinian children in the exact same breath.

Nobody is saying you need to speak a single word on Palestinian children. People are saying that expressing their own sadness regarding the treatment of the Palestinian people doesn’t make them antisemites.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

I was in the West Bank but not Gaza but as far as I know - you've been to none of the 3 places.

So visiting for a few days makes you an expert and I should just defer to your opinion? got it. my bad

It makes me have more real world experience than you and it just is what it is. People are not accepting that they don't know everything from what they read in the papers. My in laws lived in Israel before it was a country, and yes, I am getting info from them about the founding that isn't exactly what I am reading in the papers here.

Oh the irony.

What did you learn in college? My liberal arts education taught me that everything is biased. I spent lots of time with history and literature and learning about how even the supposedly objective news is biased.

Case in point with the Hamas attacks. We are all looking at the same thing. One side sees it as justifying everything Israel has been doing - this is why they do it - to try to prevent these terror attacks. The other side sees the exact same thing as - this is the result of what Israel has been doing - you reap what you sow (which incidentally is what someone said to me as an American on the streets of Argentina the day after 9/11 - most people were saddened about it - but you have to know the quote discussed here - one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter - is how other countries see the US as well. They see the US as the dark side, and al queda as the underdog freedom fighter).

Point me to the post in this thread that called Hamas freedom fighters. No one did. I certainly didn't.

The ONLY point that I have been trying to make is that there are innocent children on both sides who are suffering terribly as the result of what their parents, governments, etc have been doing for the past 70 years. I am not sure why so many of you have a hard time just saying a child, is a child is a child. No child should suffer. No child's suffering is more horrendous than the other. No child's suffering is justified.

A DCPS teacher said that.

I’m the PP whose child told them their teacher said that. I want to make clear that I can not verify that the teacher was referring to Hamas specifically or just generally referring to what terrorism is. The discussion evolved into a general one about the conflict and terrorism.

All I do know for sure is that my Jewish child was confused and hysterical about the whole discussion once they got home. We have family in Israel. The takeaway my child got from the whole discussion was NOT that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Even though full stop that’s what Hamas is. President Biden said it in his address. I showed my child the Presidents speech. There should be no confusion. No equivocation by teachers. The only thing that needed to be said yesterday (if anything at all) by a teacher is that Hamas committed a terrorist act against Jewish Israelis. Yesterday was not the time for a nuanced discussion on the intricacies of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

So the teacher talked about terrorism though? It seems weird to talk about it and not apply. I'm sorry your child was upset. We all come at discussions with our own filters, so it's possible that others heard something different. The facts are, however, that two people can view the same act in very different ways. So, in that sense the teacher was correct if it was a general discussion. Demented people rationalize gun violence all the time.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

But the context of these attacks is not simply anti-semitism but Israeli government policies!

This is different than an unprovoked attack on a synagogue in the US. It is completely wrapped up in governmental affairs!

You are ignorant AF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

It baffles me that you think you should be able to own the entire conversation when Palestinian children are literally being blown to pieces in Gaza at this very moment.

It baffles me that you think we shouldn’t be able to talk about Jewish babies being literally beheaded without mentioning Palestinian children in the exact same breath.

Nobody is saying you need to speak a single word on Palestinian children. People are saying that expressing their own sadness regarding the treatment of the Palestinian people doesn’t make them antisemites.

Nutty. You are literally saying cannot discussing Jewish trauma without Palestinian trauma is unacceptable. Really gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

It baffles me that you think you should be able to own the entire conversation when Palestinian children are literally being blown to pieces in Gaza at this very moment.

It baffles me that you think we shouldn’t be able to talk about Jewish babies being literally beheaded without mentioning Palestinian children in the exact same breath.

Nobody is saying you need to speak a single word on Palestinian children. People are saying that expressing their own sadness regarding the treatment of the Palestinian people doesn’t make them antisemites.

Nutty. You are literally saying cannot discussing Jewish trauma without Palestinian trauma is unacceptable. Really gross.

What??? You really have a comprehension problem. Not the PP btw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

Jews are subject matter experts in anti-Semitism in a way that you are not, and many DCPS teachers are not. In the same way that Black Americans are subject matter experts on anti-Black racism, etc.

How does that prevent us or the teachers from discussing current events? Or are Jews the only ones allowed to do that?

It doesn’t. But the overt and covert antisemitism in DCPS sure does send a message to Jewish kids.

Is this really an issue in DCPS? Like really? Give me examples.

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2021/12/21/1066251823/parents-and-lawmakers-demand-answers-after-third-graders-made-to-reenact-holocaust

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

It baffles me that you think you should be able to own the entire conversation when Palestinian children are literally being blown to pieces in Gaza at this very moment.

It baffles me that you think we shouldn’t be able to talk about Jewish babies being literally beheaded without mentioning Palestinian children in the exact same breath.

Nobody is saying you need to speak a single word on Palestinian children. People are saying that expressing their own sadness regarding the treatment of the Palestinian people doesn’t make them antisemites.

this topic is about what DCPS teachers should say to Jewish children the day after a major anti-semitic terror attack.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

Jews are subject matter experts in anti-Semitism in a way that you are not, and many DCPS teachers are not. In the same way that Black Americans are subject matter experts on anti-Black racism, etc.

How does that prevent us or the teachers from discussing current events? Or are Jews the only ones allowed to do that?

It doesn’t. But the overt and covert antisemitism in DCPS sure does send a message to Jewish kids.

Is this really an issue in DCPS? Like really? Give me examples.

https://www.npr.org/local/305/2021/12/21/1066251823/parents-and-lawmakers-demand-answers-after-third-graders-made-to-reenact-holocaust

While clearly horrible, I don't view this as something that is widespread or condoned by DCPS. It made national news, and she was fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

But the context of these attacks is not simply anti-semitism but Israeli government policies!

This is different than an unprovoked attack on a synagogue in the US. It is completely wrapped up in governmental affairs!

OK, are you saying that beheading babies, raping women, annd taking hostages are acts of a government? Because I see those as terrorist acts, not part of governmental military action.

Providing “context” to heinous acts of terrorism sounds a whole heck of a lot like justification to me.

But if you must have context, Hamas makes no secret of wanting to kill not only Israeli, but Jews. All of them. Or is that not the context you meant?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-semitic. It's not true.

where did ANYONE say anything about an “official statement of support for Israel”?!!

A 'discussion' where even mentioning the existence of Palestinian civilians is deemed an anti-semitic attack is not a discussion. The only thing that would fit the bill of "only discuss Jewish pain or you're a bigot" is a statement of support. Like I said: if that's what people want be honest about it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

It baffles me that you think you should be able to own the entire conversation when Palestinian children are literally being blown to pieces in Gaza at this very moment.

It baffles me that you think we shouldn’t be able to talk about Jewish babies being literally beheaded without mentioning Palestinian children in the exact same breath.

Nobody is saying you need to speak a single word on Palestinian children. People are saying that expressing their own sadness regarding the treatment of the Palestinian people doesn’t make them antisemites.

Nobody is saying that. Express your sadness. It is sad. Unless, of course, you just so happen to feel the need to chime in to express that sadness whenever anyone talks about the feelings of Jewish children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-Semitic. It's not true.

And that's the point, I think, we can't have the discussion in DCPS because of people like you - who believe that Jewish children should be made to feel responsible for the charred and sexually assaulted bodies of their cousins. That they are not entitled to feel sad or scared, because it triggers people like you. We don't do this for other people, we don't say to Egyptians - you should feel bad for not lifting the blockade. Or to the French or Italians or Americans who bombed heavily and indiscriminately all over the world all the time. And because of your, charitably, subconscious bias. You can't see it. And you have to both sides and what about and cannot allow any space to be safe for Jews ever. And that's why DCPS is not the right forum - antisemitism is the world's oldest bigotry for a reason, and you are just one cog in the machine.

😭 this is well said. Any discussion of antisemitism or Jewish pain is immediately followed by BUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT. My college Facebook group posted a hope for the safety and comfort of endangered alumni in Israel. The second comment on it was “FREE PALESTINE”. wtaf.

Which is not to say that we shouldn’t take Palestinian children’s pain just as seriously. But we should allow that its own space, instead of instantly inserting it into the discussions of Jewish pain and trauma.

It baffles me that you think you should be able to own the entire conversation when Palestinian children are literally being blown to pieces in Gaza at this very moment.

It baffles me that you think we shouldn’t be able to talk about Jewish babies being literally beheaded without mentioning Palestinian children in the exact same breath.

Nobody is saying you need to speak a single word on Palestinian children. People are saying that expressing their own sadness regarding the treatment of the Palestinian people doesn’t make them antisemites.

Nobody is saying that. Express your sadness. It is sad. Unless, of course, you just so happen to feel the need to chime in to express that sadness whenever anyone talks about the feelings of Jewish children.

It's the same war happening in real-time. Why do you think we should separate the two?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

Well that shows your heart not mine. If you think that only Jewish kids are suffering and this should somehow only be discussed in the context of the events of this weekend you are heartless.

I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever talk about Palestinian kids. I am saying that immediately derailing all conversations about the suffering of Jewish kids shows your heart.

But you kind of are saying that. There are a million kids living in terrible conditions in Gaza even before the siege. We can't just ignore that.

OK, but then you also can't ignore that there was a two state solution proposed in 47/48 that the international community and Israel accepted, and then Israel was attacked on the day it was founded, and everything else that is happening today stems from that and self protection. You know we have a border crisis in the US. If the people coming in from the Mexican border were many terrorists trying to kill us, no one would be cool with just allowing that to happen here, either.

Oh my. So everything Israel has done with 1948 has been to protect itself?

Yes. You may think it is excessive, but yes. You don't really know what is excessive if you've never been there or never lived in a country bordered by people whose government charter is to kill you.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/honest-voice-israel

And this is why you can't have an honest conversation.

Read the article I linked and let's have an honest conversation. I think you're being dishonest by minimizing the violence towards Israelis.

I think you are being very dishonest about saying that everything Israel has done has been done in defense and is therefore justified.

Have you been there?

No, but I'm capable of being informed without having to go to Israel.

Then you can't really know what it's like. You don't have the lived experience. And it's ok to say that. You can't be an armchair expert.

Oh please. You don't either. You're comfy sitting in your chair somewhere in DC lecturing me on the suffering of Jews a world away.

I did survive the siege of Sarajevo so I bet you I know a little more about conflict than you ever will. And no, I'm not Muslim (or Jewish for that matter). As a result of that experience, I'm very much an atheist. Not that religion has anything to do with the bloodshed in the middle east.

I've at least been to the area we are discussing, and I learned a lot from my visit there, even being married to an Israeli. There is no substitute for experience. Without it, you only know what you read about third hand.

Did you go to Gaza while you were there too? Because if not, you only saw part of the picture.

I was in the West Bank but not Gaza but as far as I know - you've been to none of the 3 places.

So visiting for a few days makes you an expert and I should just defer to your opinion? got it. my bad

It makes me have more real world experience than you and it just is what it is. People are not accepting that they don't know everything from what they read in the papers. My in laws lived in Israel before it was a country, and yes, I am getting info from them about the founding that isn't exactly what I am reading in the papers here.

Oh the irony.

What did you learn in college? My liberal arts education taught me that everything is biased. I spent lots of time with history and literature and learning about how even the supposedly objective news is biased.

Case in point with the Hamas attacks. We are all looking at the same thing. One side sees it as justifying everything Israel has been doing - this is why they do it - to try to prevent these terror attacks. The other side sees the exact same thing as - this is the result of what Israel has been doing - you reap what you sow (which incidentally is what someone said to me as an American on the streets of Argentina the day after 9/11 - most people were saddened about it - but you have to know the quote discussed here - one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter - is how other countries see the US as well. They see the US as the dark side, and al queda as the underdog freedom fighter).

Point me to the post in this thread that called Hamas freedom fighters. No one did. I certainly didn't.

The ONLY point that I have been trying to make is that there are innocent children on both sides who are suffering terribly as the result of what their parents, governments, etc have been doing for the past 70 years. I am not sure why so many of you have a hard time just saying a child, is a child is a child. No child should suffer. No child's suffering is more horrendous than the other. No child's suffering is justified.

A DCPS teacher said that.

I’m the PP whose child told them their teacher said that. I want to make clear that I can not verify that the teacher was referring to Hamas specifically or just generally referring to what terrorism is. The discussion evolved into a general one about the conflict and terrorism.

All I do know for sure is that my Jewish child was confused and hysterical about the whole discussion once they got home. We have family in Israel. The takeaway my child got from the whole discussion was NOT that Hamas is a terrorist organization. Even though full stop that’s what Hamas is. President Biden said it in his address. I showed my child the Presidents speech. There should be no confusion. No equivocation by teachers. The only thing that needed to be said yesterday (if anything at all) by a teacher is that Hamas committed a terrorist act against Jewish Israelis. Yesterday was not the time for a nuanced discussion on the intricacies of the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

So the teacher talked about terrorism though? It seems weird to talk about it and not apply. I'm sorry your child was upset. We all come at discussions with our own filters, so it's possible that others heard something different. The facts are, however, that two people can view the same act in very different ways. So, in that sense the teacher was correct if it was a general discussion. Demented people rationalize gun violence all the time.

Yes it is totally possible other people heard something different. But I’m not sure why this had to morph into a general discussion on terrorism and the conflict to begin with. Unless that was the planned lesson of the day - which is was not. It’s like all these other “yes, buts” we’ve been hearing.

Our children are constantly told in dcps to “hold space” for various marginalized groups and people. Why is it that we could not hold space to the innocent Jews killed yesterday. And yes - they were not just targeted because they’re Israeli. This was not a political attack. They were targeted by Hamas because they were Jews. And if you think the Hamas brand of anti-semitism isn’t connected to what you see here in the states - you are delusional.

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Anonymous wrote:There’s a ton of antisemitism in DCPS so I actually did not want my (Jewish) child to discuss it at all. I just mentioned it to him briefly. We’ll see what he brings back from school.

Palestinians =\= Hamas

Jews =\= Israel

Some people being fed up with Israel does not make them antisemitic.

I was going to post something similar. People continuously conflating a country/politics with religion (this applies to many places) is wrong. Issues are more complex than that.

And YOU are the one conflating it here. If this topic is to be addressed in school at all (and I hope it is not) it should be from the starting point of “a horrible anti-semitic attack happened in Israel and we know that some Jewish students may be feeling sad and scared.” YOU are the one who immediately wants to skip this part and go straight to lecturing kids about politics.

Are jewish kids in America actually feeling “scared”?

Are Palestinian kids here also feeling "scared"?

There are a lot of Jewish kids in DCPS - not many or any Palestinian kids. And the fact that you can apparently not countenance providing ANY institutional support to Jewish kids just proves my point.

So support for innocent Palestinian kids (in the US or Gaza) equals anti-semitism? got it

On Tuesday, refusing to talk about the anti-semitic nature of the attacks or both-siding it is anti-semitic. Yes.

Really, really not. But keep sticking your head in the sand.

You’re not even willing to say the Hamas attacks were antisemitic?

Of course I am!!!! I have been saying all along. And it's ALSO barbering to treat Palestinians the way they have been treated for 70 years. Both can be true at the same time.

both can be true. but the way to address in school what Jewish kids might be feeling immediately after a high-profile and terrifying antisemitic attack is NOT “oh but let’s talk about Israel.” that’s the point here. how to address the upset and fear that Jewish kids might be feeling that day in the classroom. to act like this fear doesn’t exist (as one PP thinks!) or is unworthy to be addressed is absolutely antisemitic.

Oh spare me. If this were a completely isolated incident not provoked by 70 years of turmoil for which Israel bears the brunt of responsibility, I think you might be right. But you can't treat people like animals for 70 years and expect them to just take it.

NO, I do not support the slaughter and rape of innocent people on either side but it's NOT antisemitic to condemn Israel for what they have done. I can condemn Hamas and DO. CAn you do the same?

If you can’t countenance even for a second the need to emotionally support Jewish kids then you’re just proving the point.

I can. I do. Can you do the same for Palestinian kids?

NP. I can, but I don’t feel the need to immediately change the conversation to Palestinian kids whenever supporting Jewish kids is mentioned.

DP. The conversation is about the conflict. The conflict started with a barbaric attack (support Jewish kids!) and has moved on to a declaration of war, cutting off water/food/electricity/medical supplies, and a stated intent to blaze through Gaza (support Palestinian kids??). The idea that in your head talking about kids on one side is right and proper and talking about kids on the other is whataboutism is the whole problem. There are a million kids in Gaza. It's not changing the conversation to acknowledge them, it's participating in the conversation.

If your intent in doing so is because you don’t think it’s allowable to talk about anti-semitism or if you think the Hamas attacks were justified - then yes that is a problem.

In NO other context at DCPS do we refuse to allow a marginalized group its own space.

Of course the Hamas attacks were not justified, and there's not a single word in my post that would lead you to the conclusion that I think otherwise.

But I genuinely don't understand what this bolded sentence means. The topic of the thread is "discussing the recent Israeli-Palestinian Conflict in Schools" - is it your position that that entire discussion somehow belongs to Jewish American students and only to them? Even though the conflict is described as -Palestinian, any mention of Palestinian civilians is a usurpation of space where they should not be represented? Because that makes no sense to me unless you just truly think that only people on one side of the equation are worthy of any consideration. That exact framing is what people are pushing back against, and no that resistance is not anti-semitic.

No amount of calling me anti-semitic is going to make me think that some kids are okay to kill without even a mention. Just like no amount of straw-manning is going to suddenly create a world where I'm pro-Hamas or have ever said that the attacks on Jewish civilians were just or acceptable.

My entire point is that the first day back to school after a huge antisemitic terror attack, yes, you need to make space to make it entirely about Jewish kids, at least for a day. The message one PP’s kid got that “one man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is entirely wrong.

That teacher was both wrong, stupid, and very unprofessional.

But the idea that it was the first day back to school after a terror attack ignores it was *also* the first day back to school after the crackdown on Gaza and declaration of war. Both things happened over the weekend. Giving the day to Jewish students doesn't make sense unless you're going to give the next day to Palestinian students (somehow I doubt it). It's either a discussion of the conflict, in which case both sides have to be discussed, or it's just a statement of support for Israel.

You can certainly say "I don't want a discussion, I want an official statement of support for Israel and nothing else" and that's clearly a lot of people's position in this thread. But you cannot say "a discussion of the conflict that includes the fact that Palestinian civilians are going to suffer as well" is anti-semitic. It's not true.

where did ANYONE say anything about an “official statement of support for Israel”?!!

A 'discussion' where even mentioning the existence of Palestinian civilians is deemed an anti-semitic attack is not a discussion. The only thing that would fit the bill of "only discuss Jewish pain or you're a bigot" is a statement of support. Like I said: if that's what people want be honest about it.

wow ok.

curious if you think you also have to discuss black crime rates when you discuss police brutality?