We chose not to redshirt DS without considering the long-term consequences:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

Ours was too. It has nothing to do with age, but talent and practice.

There are absolutely skills tied to development, including abstract reasoning, attention span and coordination. Being a year older does matter for nearly everything.

No, how would being a year older have helped if they aready are on the advanced track. This is your bias.

Some babies walk at 9 months. Others walk at 20 months. The age that a baby walks has no correlation at all to their odds of being a D1 track athlete.

It's the same in math. Some kids develop abstract algebraic reasoning at 13 and others at 15 yo. Neither determines if the kid will grow up to be brilliant and teach math at MIT.

My kid is on the advanced math track with Algebra in 7th, despite being 11 yo at the beginning of 7th grade. But I have no doubts that her abstract math skills are still developing and she'd find this class easier if she was a year older.

If you think she'd do better, then have her wait till 8th to do Algebra. Mine did it in 6th and it wasn't an issue. I don't think the year would make a difference. What helps is having a good teacher who uses a textbook and a good curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who sends their kid to kindergarten at 4?
sorry Op, you were an extreme outliner
no need to advise ordinary folks on this

Plenty of districts have cut-offs late enough for fall born kids to start at 4.

My kid turned 5 a few weeks into K. Whats the difference with a month? Nothing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

Ours was too. It has nothing to do with age, but talent and practice.

There are absolutely skills tied to development, including abstract reasoning, attention span and coordination. Being a year older does matter for nearly everything.

No, if your child is talented, they will be fine. Start them early with private lessons and private orchestra/music groups. That is what makes a difference.

With math, some of it is how their brain functions. If they are not math kids, they will struggle either way. If they are and ready, you let them do it.

[Anonymous]

DS’s bday is 09/29….we opted to wait another year. i’m not convinced that we needed to but one day before cutoff does not really feel like redshirting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The purpose is this post is to encourage parents of kids born between October and December to think long-term when deciding whether or not to send them to kindergarten at 4. Our son has a late November birthday, and when he was 4, all that mattered to us was that he was ready for Kindergarten. We didn't ask ourselves how he would do in high school or college. Thus, we sent him at 4, and he has ultimately been emotionally damaged because of it.

Now contrary to popular opinion, he didn't feel as bad about being the last to get his driver's license as one might expect. After all, it's a hard and fast rule in this country that if you're under 16, you're now allowed a driver's license. Thus, our son knew that his classmates weren't driving before him because of anything he had done wrong; he knew that it was just the law and there was no reason for him to blame himself. However, our son experienced other problems that I'm sure were an indirect result of his relative age. However, because these problems were an indirect result, he had a much harder time not blaming himself for them.

One such example is that he didn't make it into his high school's top orchestra until his senior year, while most of his orchestra friends made it in their junior year. Concerts were torture for him his junior year, as he had to sit in the audience watching his classmates perform some of the greatest classical pieces ever written.

Another example is that he failed Pre-Calculus his junior year, and had to retake it his senior year, meaning he graduated high school with no knowledge of Calculus. Whenever he got together with his friends to study during his senior year, he had to endure the shame of pulling out his Pre-Calculus textbook while all his friends pulled out their Calculus(and in some cases, Multivariable Calculus) textbooks.

But, most recently and most importantly, is that he failed to graduate from college in 4 years. Due to his immaturity when he entered college, he wasn't able to handle as much as most of his classmates, and the result was that he ended up falling a year behind. He should've graduated this spring, but he didn't. It's going to be another year before he graduates and he is miserable about it. These past weeks, he's had to endure his friends from high school as well as his friends from his first year at the university(including his old roommates) posting pictures of themselves in their caps and gowns on facebook. The moderator of that group, the other day, made a post saying, "Congratulations college grads!" which filled our son with shame. A parent of one of his friends from high school invited them to a college graduation party at their enormous house, to which our son had to gloomily decline. Even though he's graduating next year, the people he's going to graduate with are people he barely knows, whereas most people who graduate from college together have shared the full 4 years together, from start to finish.

I've never heard a parent say they regret redshirting, but I've heard many parents say they regret not redshirting, and now I understand why.

I'm am so sorry to take offense to this. Glad I can post without anyone knowing. My kid is one of the oldest kids in his class (started on time) and STILL won't take calculous in high school because he sucks at math. Didn't realize he should feel shame. MAYBE you projected this onto to him.

Shame? Ridiculous. The orchestra and the math results have nothing to do with a November birthday. The classes must have been filled with kids who waited a year and those that didn’t. If he had been born a few months earlier then he would have started kindergarten at 5 years old . He’d still be the same student.

My youngest has a November birthday. They have changed the cut off date to September so she’s one of the oldest. Not yet in high school I know she won’t be taking calculus because she has not interest in and puts no effort into it. Her music skills would allow her to be accepted with her class.

I graduated college in five years because I couldn’t handle six classes a semester which were required some semesters with 5 classes the remaining semesters. I felt no shame and I did what I could. Don’t blame his age on everything. He did fine.

A November birthday isn't relevant. The point people are making is its better to hold back so they can be at the top of the class for things like math and orchestra or band, but a smart, talented kid will do those regardless of age. Math and Band go by ability when you get to HS so you will have a huge range of kids in different classes, so holding back to put them at the top of the class is more about you than them. A kid who struggles in school will struggle regardless. But, struggling a year older may impact their self esteem.

My fall kid, who went "early" has always been at the top for music and math. They will hopefully graduate with linear algebra if we can make the transportation work as their school doesn't offer it. Who cares? They just happen to be good at those areas. Holding them back a year would not have made any difference. They are also short. Its all genetics. Holding back would not have made them taller.

Why are you so hostile over it?

There’s no hostility there, I don’t see where that came from. The shame he feels is unfounded.
The kid went to kindergarten right on time and is traumatized that he didn’t get into top classes that kids who might be three months older than him or six months older. It’s sad that he’s hanging on to that instead of just accepting that although he did very well he wasn’t able to get into them in the concert band until senior year and he didn’t do as well in math as he hoped. Unless there’s a learning disability the month a child was born will have little effect on his work. He had a successful high school career but he can’t appreciate it because friends did a little better in a couple of things. Let it go and focus on your successes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

Ours was too. It has nothing to do with age, but talent and practice.

There are absolutely skills tied to development, including abstract reasoning, attention span and coordination. Being a year older does matter for nearly everything.

No, if your child is talented, they will be fine. Start them early with private lessons and private orchestra/music groups. That is what makes a difference.

With math, some of it is how their brain functions. If they are not math kids, they will struggle either way. If they are and ready, you let them do it.

That's really not how it works. You don't see people training their 6 mo so they can be "talented" and walk at 9 mo. It's really the same with other development too. There are brain functions that develop at certain ages and while some kids develop early, it doesn't mean that those who aren't early with that skill aren't talented or won't actually be better at it in the long run.

What you're arguing is akin to bragging that your kid started puberty earlier so they're more talented. Or saying that putting your kid in private lessons will make them start puberty. Brain development isn't puberty, but both are development that come for kids in a mostly predictable window of time, with some kids starting earlier and some later. You can't rush it or change it with "lessons." Abstract reasoning is a brain function that develops in a developmental windows and it's not about training or lessons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you give your son a handmade excuse for every failure. It's not your fault you didn't study for your math test; mommy didn't consider how lazy you'd be 11 years ago when she shipped you to Kindy!

Going to school on time is not why he took an extra year to graduate college. Possibly being raised by parents who told him, "it's not your fault, you're 3 months younger than your BFF how can you be held to the same standard??!" is the reason, though.

Three months can make a big difference when you’re a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The purpose is this post is to encourage parents of kids born between October and December to think long-term when deciding whether or not to send them to kindergarten at 4. Our son has a late November birthday, and when he was 4, all that mattered to us was that he was ready for Kindergarten. We didn't ask ourselves how he would do in high school or college. Thus, we sent him at 4, and he has ultimately been emotionally damaged because of it.

Now contrary to popular opinion, he didn't feel as bad about being the last to get his driver's license as one might expect. After all, it's a hard and fast rule in this country that if you're under 16, you're now allowed a driver's license. Thus, our son knew that his classmates weren't driving before him because of anything he had done wrong; he knew that it was just the law and there was no reason for him to blame himself. However, our son experienced other problems that I'm sure were an indirect result of his relative age. However, because these problems were an indirect result, he had a much harder time not blaming himself for them.

One such example is that he didn't make it into his high school's top orchestra until his senior year, while most of his orchestra friends made it in their junior year. Concerts were torture for him his junior year, as he had to sit in the audience watching his classmates perform some of the greatest classical pieces ever written.

Another example is that he failed Pre-Calculus his junior year, and had to retake it his senior year, meaning he graduated high school with no knowledge of Calculus. Whenever he got together with his friends to study during his senior year, he had to endure the shame of pulling out his Pre-Calculus textbook while all his friends pulled out their Calculus(and in some cases, Multivariable Calculus) textbooks.

But, most recently and most importantly, is that he failed to graduate from college in 4 years. Due to his immaturity when he entered college, he wasn't able to handle as much as most of his classmates, and the result was that he ended up falling a year behind. He should've graduated this spring, but he didn't. It's going to be another year before he graduates and he is miserable about it. These past weeks, he's had to endure his friends from high school as well as his friends from his first year at the university(including his old roommates) posting pictures of themselves in their caps and gowns on facebook. The moderator of that group, the other day, made a post saying, "Congratulations college grads!" which filled our son with shame. A parent of one of his friends from high school invited them to a college graduation party at their enormous house, to which our son had to gloomily decline. Even though he's graduating next year, the people he's going to graduate with are people he barely knows, whereas most people who graduate from college together have shared the full 4 years together, from start to finish.

I've never heard a parent say they regret redshirting, but I've heard many parents say they regret not redshirting, and now I understand why.

I'm am so sorry to take offense to this. Glad I can post without anyone knowing. My kid is one of the oldest kids in his class (started on time) and STILL won't take calculous in high school because he sucks at math. Didn't realize he should feel shame. MAYBE you projected this onto to him.

Shame? Ridiculous. The orchestra and the math results have nothing to do with a November birthday. The classes must have been filled with kids who waited a year and those that didn’t. If he had been born a few months earlier then he would have started kindergarten at 5 years old . He’d still be the same student.

My youngest has a November birthday. They have changed the cut off date to September so she’s one of the oldest. Not yet in high school I know she won’t be taking calculus because she has not interest in and puts no effort into it. Her music skills would allow her to be accepted with her class.

I graduated college in five years because I couldn’t handle six classes a semester which were required some semesters with 5 classes the remaining semesters. I felt no shame and I did what I could. Don’t blame his age on everything. He did fine.

A November birthday isn't relevant. The point people are making is its better to hold back so they can be at the top of the class for things like math and orchestra or band, but a smart, talented kid will do those regardless of age. Math and Band go by ability when you get to HS so you will have a huge range of kids in different classes, so holding back to put them at the top of the class is more about you than them. A kid who struggles in school will struggle regardless. But, struggling a year older may impact their self esteem.

My fall kid, who went "early" has always been at the top for music and math. They will hopefully graduate with linear algebra if we can make the transportation work as their school doesn't offer it. Who cares? They just happen to be good at those areas. Holding them back a year would not have made any difference. They are also short. Its all genetics. Holding back would not have made them taller.

Why are you so hostile over it?

There’s no hostility there, I don’t see where that came from. The shame he feels is unfounded.
The kid went to kindergarten right on time and is traumatized that he didn’t get into top classes that kids who might be three months older than him or six months older. It’s sad that he’s hanging on to that instead of just accepting that although he did very well he wasn’t able to get into them in the concert band until senior year and he didn’t do as well in math as he hoped. Unless there’s a learning disability the month a child was born will have little effect on his work. He had a successful high school career but he can’t appreciate it because friends did a little better in a couple of things. Let it go and focus on your successes.

You are projecting your child, and that's not fair, as 3 months if they were super talented would not make a difference. My kid went into the top band/orchestra starting as a freshman and honestly, it sucked as a freshman. Some of the seniors who weren't good were bullies, and now that they are older, it's the same band, repeating the same music all four years. If your son were super talented, he would have gotten in Freshman or Sophmore year and it has nothing to do with age, but skill. My kid beat out many older kids. The top kids are in private lessons and outside music groups.

Math goes by test scores. In MS and HS all the classes are mixed. Freshman and sophomore year my kid was with juniors and seniors (thankfully they were nice).

Holding your kid back wouldn't have made a difference. Maybe working at home, tutoring, private lessons and groups would have if you didn't do all that.

If your child isn't majoring in music, it doesn't matter if they didn't get in till Senior year. And, it just meant that the teacher was bias (which happens a lot) or they were good kids who tried but it didn't come as naturally, which is ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you give your son a handmade excuse for every failure. It's not your fault you didn't study for your math test; mommy didn't consider how lazy you'd be 11 years ago when she shipped you to Kindy!

Going to school on time is not why he took an extra year to graduate college. Possibly being raised by parents who told him, "it's not your fault, you're 3 months younger than your BFF how can you be held to the same standard??!" is the reason, though.

Three months can make a big difference when you’re a kid.

No, a top music or math kid will be at the top regardless of a few months. Both go by ability starting in MS with mixed classes so age/grade doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who sends their kid to kindergarten at 4?
sorry Op, you were an extreme outliner
no need to advise ordinary folks on this

Plenty of districts have cut-offs late enough for fall born kids to start at 4.

My kid turned 5 a few weeks into K. Whats the difference with a month? Nothing!

In which case the month between a redshirted kid in Sept 1 who would have started at 4 and their Oct 1 on time peer is…nothing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who sends their kid to kindergarten at 4?
sorry Op, you were an extreme outliner
no need to advise ordinary folks on this

Plenty of districts have cut-offs late enough for fall born kids to start at 4.

My kid turned 5 a few weeks into K. Whats the difference with a month? Nothing!

I sent my daughter who was born in early Sept to K at 4. Nobody really argues to redshirt a July girl and the difference in birthdates could be as little as 5 or 6 weeks which is nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overly dramatic writing of OP tells me she is a big part of the problem here. And what does failing pre-Calc have to do with him being a few months younger? As a parent you should have been aware that he was headed towards failure and intervened. You sound like a huge excuse maker who likely prompted your kid to feel like a perpetual victim. Be honest, how many times have you said to your kid that you wish you had red shirted him? I bet a lot. So much so that he has adopted that as part of his victim identity.

Yes. When you make a mistake it’s important to admit it and explain and apologize to the people negatively affected by that mistake.

Your biggest mistake was prioritizing your son’s feelings. It sounds like he adopted the attitude of “I don’t have to try, because if I fail, I can just dump the blame on mommy and daddy.” This may not have been your intention, but it sounds like this is what happened.

This is why I haven’t told my son that I feel it was a mistake not to redshirt him, and probably won’t until he’s done with all his schooling. School has always been a struggle for him, and I am convinced that it was because we sent him too young. If I told him this, it might make him feel better, but it won’t help him do better. I want him to keep striving to keep up with his classmates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like you give your son a handmade excuse for every failure. It's not your fault you didn't study for your math test; mommy didn't consider how lazy you'd be 11 years ago when she shipped you to Kindy!

Going to school on time is not why he took an extra year to graduate college. Possibly being raised by parents who told him, "it's not your fault, you're 3 months younger than your BFF how can you be held to the same standard??!" is the reason, though.

Three months can make a big difference when you’re a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The overly dramatic writing of OP tells me she is a big part of the problem here. And what does failing pre-Calc have to do with him being a few months younger? As a parent you should have been aware that he was headed towards failure and intervened. You sound like a huge excuse maker who likely prompted your kid to feel like a perpetual victim. Be honest, how many times have you said to your kid that you wish you had red shirted him? I bet a lot. So much so that he has adopted that as part of his victim identity.

Yes. When you make a mistake it’s important to admit it and explain and apologize to the people negatively affected by that mistake.

Your biggest mistake was prioritizing your son’s feelings. It sounds like he adopted the attitude of “I don’t have to try, because if I fail, I can just dump the blame on mommy and daddy.” This may not have been your intention, but it sounds like this is what happened.

This is why I haven’t told my son that I feel it was a mistake not to redshirt him, and probably won’t until he’s done with all his schooling. School has always been a struggle for him, and I am convinced that it was because we sent him too young. If I told him this, it might make him feel better, but it won’t help him do better. I want him to keep striving to keep up with his classmates.

If school was a struggle, you get him evaluated to rule out any concerns and tutors. You don't just use age as an excuse and tell others to hold back too. There is a huge range of abilities and not all kids are highly academic and that's ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who sends their kid to kindergarten at 4?
sorry Op, you were an extreme outliner
no need to advise ordinary folks on this

Plenty of districts have cut-offs late enough for fall born kids to start at 4.

My kid turned 5 a few weeks into K. Whats the difference with a month? Nothing!

In which case the month between a redshirted kid in Sept 1 who would have started at 4 and their Oct 1 on time peer is…nothing!

The difference is not just a year when parent hold back their kids an entire year. Your math is off.