We chose not to redshirt DS without considering the long-term consequences:

[Anonymous]

My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The purpose is this post is to encourage parents of kids born between October and December to think long-term when deciding whether or not to send them to kindergarten at 4. Our son has a late November birthday, and when he was 4, all that mattered to us was that he was ready for Kindergarten. We didn't ask ourselves how he would do in high school or college. Thus, we sent him at 4, and he has ultimately been emotionally damaged because of it.

Now contrary to popular opinion, he didn't feel as bad about being the last to get his driver's license as one might expect. After all, it's a hard and fast rule in this country that if you're under 16, you're now allowed a driver's license. Thus, our son knew that his classmates weren't driving before him because of anything he had done wrong; he knew that it was just the law and there was no reason for him to blame himself. However, our son experienced other problems that I'm sure were an indirect result of his relative age. However, because these problems were an indirect result, he had a much harder time not blaming himself for them.

One such example is that he didn't make it into his high school's top orchestra until his senior year, while most of his orchestra friends made it in their junior year. Concerts were torture for him his junior year, as he had to sit in the audience watching his classmates perform some of the greatest classical pieces ever written.

Another example is that he failed Pre-Calculus his junior year, and had to retake it his senior year, meaning he graduated high school with no knowledge of Calculus. Whenever he got together with his friends to study during his senior year, he had to endure the shame of pulling out his Pre-Calculus textbook while all his friends pulled out their Calculus(and in some cases, Multivariable Calculus) textbooks.

But, most recently and most importantly, is that he failed to graduate from college in 4 years. Due to his immaturity when he entered college, he wasn't able to handle as much as most of his classmates, and the result was that he ended up falling a year behind. He should've graduated this spring, but he didn't. It's going to be another year before he graduates and he is miserable about it. These past weeks, he's had to endure his friends from high school as well as his friends from his first year at the university(including his old roommates) posting pictures of themselves in their caps and gowns on facebook. The moderator of that group, the other day, made a post saying, "Congratulations college grads!" which filled our son with shame. A parent of one of his friends from high school invited them to a college graduation party at their enormous house, to which our son had to gloomily decline. Even though he's graduating next year, the people he's going to graduate with are people he barely knows, whereas most people who graduate from college together have shared the full 4 years together, from start to finish.

I've never heard a parent say they regret redshirting, but I've heard many parents say they regret not redshirting, and now I understand why.

I'm am so sorry to take offense to this. Glad I can post without anyone knowing. My kid is one of the oldest kids in his class (started on time) and STILL won't take calculous in high school because he sucks at math. Didn't realize he should feel shame. MAYBE you projected this onto to him.

Shame? Ridiculous. The orchestra and the math results have nothing to do with a November birthday. The classes must have been filled with kids who waited a year and those that didn’t. If he had been born a few months earlier then he would have started kindergarten at 5 years old . He’d still be the same student.

My youngest has a November birthday. They have changed the cut off date to September so she’s one of the oldest. Not yet in high school I know she won’t be taking calculus because she has not interest in and puts no effort into it. Her music skills would allow her to be accepted with her class.

I graduated college in five years because I couldn’t handle six classes a semester which were required some semesters with 5 classes the remaining semesters. I felt no shame and I did what I could. Don’t blame his age on everything. He did fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

Ours was too. It has nothing to do with age, but talent and practice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The purpose is this post is to encourage parents of kids born between October and December to think long-term when deciding whether or not to send them to kindergarten at 4. Our son has a late November birthday, and when he was 4, all that mattered to us was that he was ready for Kindergarten. We didn't ask ourselves how he would do in high school or college. Thus, we sent him at 4, and he has ultimately been emotionally damaged because of it.

Now contrary to popular opinion, he didn't feel as bad about being the last to get his driver's license as one might expect. After all, it's a hard and fast rule in this country that if you're under 16, you're now allowed a driver's license. Thus, our son knew that his classmates weren't driving before him because of anything he had done wrong; he knew that it was just the law and there was no reason for him to blame himself. However, our son experienced other problems that I'm sure were an indirect result of his relative age. However, because these problems were an indirect result, he had a much harder time not blaming himself for them.

One such example is that he didn't make it into his high school's top orchestra until his senior year, while most of his orchestra friends made it in their junior year. Concerts were torture for him his junior year, as he had to sit in the audience watching his classmates perform some of the greatest classical pieces ever written.

Another example is that he failed Pre-Calculus his junior year, and had to retake it his senior year, meaning he graduated high school with no knowledge of Calculus. Whenever he got together with his friends to study during his senior year, he had to endure the shame of pulling out his Pre-Calculus textbook while all his friends pulled out their Calculus(and in some cases, Multivariable Calculus) textbooks.

But, most recently and most importantly, is that he failed to graduate from college in 4 years. Due to his immaturity when he entered college, he wasn't able to handle as much as most of his classmates, and the result was that he ended up falling a year behind. He should've graduated this spring, but he didn't. It's going to be another year before he graduates and he is miserable about it. These past weeks, he's had to endure his friends from high school as well as his friends from his first year at the university(including his old roommates) posting pictures of themselves in their caps and gowns on facebook. The moderator of that group, the other day, made a post saying, "Congratulations college grads!" which filled our son with shame. A parent of one of his friends from high school invited them to a college graduation party at their enormous house, to which our son had to gloomily decline. Even though he's graduating next year, the people he's going to graduate with are people he barely knows, whereas most people who graduate from college together have shared the full 4 years together, from start to finish.

I've never heard a parent say they regret redshirting, but I've heard many parents say they regret not redshirting, and now I understand why.

I'm am so sorry to take offense to this. Glad I can post without anyone knowing. My kid is one of the oldest kids in his class (started on time) and STILL won't take calculous in high school because he sucks at math. Didn't realize he should feel shame. MAYBE you projected this onto to him.

Shame? Ridiculous. The orchestra and the math results have nothing to do with a November birthday. The classes must have been filled with kids who waited a year and those that didn’t. If he had been born a few months earlier then he would have started kindergarten at 5 years old . He’d still be the same student.

My youngest has a November birthday. They have changed the cut off date to September so she’s one of the oldest. Not yet in high school I know she won’t be taking calculus because she has not interest in and puts no effort into it. Her music skills would allow her to be accepted with her class.

I graduated college in five years because I couldn’t handle six classes a semester which were required some semesters with 5 classes the remaining semesters. I felt no shame and I did what I could. Don’t blame his age on everything. He did fine.

A November birthday isn't relevant. The point people are making is its better to hold back so they can be at the top of the class for things like math and orchestra or band, but a smart, talented kid will do those regardless of age. Math and Band go by ability when you get to HS so you will have a huge range of kids in different classes, so holding back to put them at the top of the class is more about you than them. A kid who struggles in school will struggle regardless. But, struggling a year older may impact their self esteem.

My fall kid, who went "early" has always been at the top for music and math. They will hopefully graduate with linear algebra if we can make the transportation work as their school doesn't offer it. Who cares? They just happen to be good at those areas. Holding them back a year would not have made any difference. They are also short. Its all genetics. Holding back would not have made them taller.

Why are you so hostile over it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

Ours was too. It has nothing to do with age, but talent and practice.

There are absolutely skills tied to development, including abstract reasoning, attention span and coordination. Being a year older does matter for nearly everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's better to be the oldest, but not for any of the reasons you mentioned. My parents have been cut off by my brother for not redshirting him. I have a March birthday, so I was already on the older end by default. My brother, however, has a December birthday, and our parents sent him to Kindergarten when he was 4. He was fine academically, but socially, he suffered greatly. Anytime our parents need help with something, it's all on me because my brother always refuses to help, his reasoning always being something along the lines of, "Why should I care about their needs? They evidently didn't care about my needs when they sent me off to Kindergarten so young."

I skipped kindergarten, started first grade when I was five, and didn't grow up to be a soft little chud like your brother.

It's not that your kids will necessarily resent you if you make them the youngest. It's that they won't resent you if you make them the oldest.

Are people really this neurotic? I’m a summer birthday and I skipped a grade. I graduated HS a month before I turned 17. I had a great time.

Math must not be your strong suit. They may resent you held them back, especially if they did well in school. I couldn't imagine holding my kid back whose already on the most advanced track.

Kids who are ready to go should go, how is there any argument over this? Kids who are immature for their age and can’t sit still should hold back a year.

There really aren’t advanced tracks this young. Some kids can read grades ahead or they go to a math school but that’s not school is. They will blend in the class and if they keep up their advanced work they’ll take advanced classes soon enough.

All kids are immature. They should not be mature at age 5. They go to K to learn those things. And, this is why those play based preschools aren't great as they don't prepare the kids nor do the parents. We did an academic preschool and it prepared the kids, and one of mine had SN and very delayed. We started at a play based and I could see the older ones not prepared and switched.

Holding back a smart kid makes less sense, as they can thrive academically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

Ours was too. It has nothing to do with age, but talent and practice.

There are absolutely skills tied to development, including abstract reasoning, attention span and coordination. Being a year older does matter for nearly everything.

No, how would being a year older have helped if they aready are on the advanced track. This is your bias.

[Anonymous]

Who sends their kid to kindergarten at 4?
sorry Op, you were an extreme outliner
no need to advise ordinary folks on this

[Anonymous]

Our kid was the opposite. Youngest in the class and learned to compete for every little thing. Was in grade school classes with redshirted students two years older. Our kid was a true 5, 6, 7. That was our fault, it's the school district's for allowing parents to game the system. Our kid got dinged for not being able to comport like classmates two years old -- duh. We played the long game. Now this kid is in the honors college. I don't think we can stereotype either way. It comes down to each kid. Our kid thrived on being told they couldn't compete with the kids one or two years older. Our kid said, "oh yeah, watch me."

[Anonymous]

That **wasn't** our fault, it's the school district's for allowing parents to game the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son has a September bday; we did not redshirt. He is the top band as a freshman.

Ours was too. It has nothing to do with age, but talent and practice.

There are absolutely skills tied to development, including abstract reasoning, attention span and coordination. Being a year older does matter for nearly everything.

No, how would being a year older have helped if they aready are on the advanced track. This is your bias.

Some babies walk at 9 months. Others walk at 20 months. The age that a baby walks has no correlation at all to their odds of being a D1 track athlete.

It's the same in math. Some kids develop abstract algebraic reasoning at 13 and others at 15 yo. Neither determines if the kid will grow up to be brilliant and teach math at MIT.

My kid is on the advanced math track with Algebra in 7th, despite being 11 yo at the beginning of 7th grade. But I have no doubts that her abstract math skills are still developing and she'd find this class easier if she was a year older.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that it's better to be the oldest, but not for any of the reasons you mentioned. My parents have been cut off by my brother for not redshirting him. I have a March birthday, so I was already on the older end by default. My brother, however, has a December birthday, and our parents sent him to Kindergarten when he was 4. He was fine academically, but socially, he suffered greatly. Anytime our parents need help with something, it's all on me because my brother always refuses to help, his reasoning always being something along the lines of, "Why should I care about their needs? They evidently didn't care about my needs when they sent me off to Kindergarten so young."

I skipped kindergarten, started first grade when I was five, and didn't grow up to be a soft little chud like your brother.

It's not that your kids will necessarily resent you if you make them the youngest. It's that they won't resent you if you make them the oldest.

Are people really this neurotic? I’m a summer birthday and I skipped a grade. I graduated HS a month before I turned 17. I had a great time.

It sounds like you’re on the autism spectrum, which would explain why you were smart enough to skip a grade. However, it would also mean you were too socially isolated for things like being the last to drive bother you so much.

I wasn’t socially isolated at all. Quite the opposite. Maybe that’s why I wasn’t bothered.

[Anonymous]

It depends. Our DS was youngest in class, went to T20 school, had great internships, and now is making lots of $$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who sends their kid to kindergarten at 4?
sorry Op, you were an extreme outliner
no need to advise ordinary folks on this

Plenty of districts have cut-offs late enough for fall born kids to start at 4.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The purpose is this post is to encourage parents of kids born between October and December to think long-term when deciding whether or not to send them to kindergarten at 4. Our son has a late November birthday, and when he was 4, all that mattered to us was that he was ready for Kindergarten. We didn't ask ourselves how he would do in high school or college. Thus, we sent him at 4, and he has ultimately been emotionally damaged because of it.

Now contrary to popular opinion, he didn't feel as bad about being the last to get his driver's license as one might expect. After all, it's a hard and fast rule in this country that if you're under 16, you're now allowed a driver's license. Thus, our son knew that his classmates weren't driving before him because of anything he had done wrong; he knew that it was just the law and there was no reason for him to blame himself. However, our son experienced other problems that I'm sure were an indirect result of his relative age. However, because these problems were an indirect result, he had a much harder time not blaming himself for them.

One such example is that he didn't make it into his high school's top orchestra until his senior year, while most of his orchestra friends made it in their junior year. Concerts were torture for him his junior year, as he had to sit in the audience watching his classmates perform some of the greatest classical pieces ever written.

Another example is that he failed Pre-Calculus his junior year, and had to retake it his senior year, meaning he graduated high school with no knowledge of Calculus. Whenever he got together with his friends to study during his senior year, he had to endure the shame of pulling out his Pre-Calculus textbook while all his friends pulled out their Calculus(and in some cases, Multivariable Calculus) textbooks.

But, most recently and most importantly, is that he failed to graduate from college in 4 years. Due to his immaturity when he entered college, he wasn't able to handle as much as most of his classmates, and the result was that he ended up falling a year behind. He should've graduated this spring, but he didn't. It's going to be another year before he graduates and he is miserable about it. These past weeks, he's had to endure his friends from high school as well as his friends from his first year at the university(including his old roommates) posting pictures of themselves in their caps and gowns on facebook. The moderator of that group, the other day, made a post saying, "Congratulations college grads!" which filled our son with shame. A parent of one of his friends from high school invited them to a college graduation party at their enormous house, to which our son had to gloomily decline. Even though he's graduating next year, the people he's going to graduate with are people he barely knows, whereas most people who graduate from college together have shared the full 4 years together, from start to finish.

I've never heard a parent say they regret redshirting, but I've heard many parents say they regret not redshirting, and now I understand why.

I'm am so sorry to take offense to this. Glad I can post without anyone knowing. My kid is one of the oldest kids in his class (started on time) and STILL won't take calculous in high school because he sucks at math. Didn't realize he should feel shame. MAYBE you projected this onto to him.

Shame? Ridiculous. The orchestra and the math results have nothing to do with a November birthday. The classes must have been filled with kids who waited a year and those that didn’t. If he had been born a few months earlier then he would have started kindergarten at 5 years old . He’d still be the same student.

My youngest has a November birthday. They have changed the cut off date to September so she’s one of the oldest. Not yet in high school I know she won’t be taking calculus because she has not interest in and puts no effort into it. Her music skills would allow her to be accepted with her class.

I graduated college in five years because I couldn’t handle six classes a semester which were required some semesters with 5 classes the remaining semesters. I felt no shame and I did what I could. Don’t blame his age on everything. He did fine.

A November birthday isn't relevant. The point people are making is its better to hold back so they can be at the top of the class for things like math and orchestra or band, but a smart, talented kid will do those regardless of age. Math and Band go by ability when you get to HS so you will have a huge range of kids in different classes, so holding back to put them at the top of the class is more about you than them. A kid who struggles in school will struggle regardless. But, struggling a year older may impact their self esteem.

My fall kid, who went "early" has always been at the top for music and math. They will hopefully graduate with linear algebra if we can make the transportation work as their school doesn't offer it. Who cares? They just happen to be good at those areas. Holding them back a year would not have made any difference. They are also short. Its all genetics. Holding back would not have made them taller.

Why are you so hostile over it?

The examples of band and math are so weird...it makes me think this really has to be a troll. I understand the discussions about sports, but math ability is really not a maturity thing.

I have a late December birthday, and I started on time when the cut off was 12/31. My best friend was more than a year older than me (early December birthday), and it really never hurt me socially to get my license my junior year. I had plenty of friends who could drive.

I'm not a prodigy, but I was extremely advanced in math (have a STEM PhD now). I was already driving the teachers at my Montessori crazy asking for more and more advanced math, so I think holding me back would have been worse.

DH also has a December birthday (a few weeks older than me), and he's excellent at math. We met in grad school. He started K when he was 5, and we ended up with basically the same outcome. I think it just depends on the kid.