White women try to "reclaim power" through #vanillagirl and #cleangirl beauty posts??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a white woman and I’m not upset about the article at all. I’m not sure I buy it completely but I think there are some valid kernels in there. I certainly don’t feel attacked.

Congrats. What are the valid kernels?

My problem with it is that everything valid in the piece is undermined by the stuff that is hyperbole or just blatantly false. Like, yes, there is a history of white women appropriating black culture and aesthetics for their personal gain (i.e. the Kardashians, Miley Cyrus twerking to shake her Disney image, etc.). And there is a vile history of white women using performative victimhood to provoke violence against black people (Emmett Till and all the awful stories like his, but also more recent examples like the woman in Central Park calling the cops on a black man for looking at birds). Those are valid and valuable criticisms and as a white woman, I think we need to talk about it and be accountable.

But to take those valid criticisms and apply them to young white women posting on social media about the "no make-up makeup" look or how much they enjoy wearing outfits composed of tone on tone beige items? It undermines the whole thing. Because those are not the same. And also, white women are not the only women posting on social media about natural beauty or neutral aesthetics. At all. Plus there's a huge difference between someone like Kim Kardashian or Miley Cyrus or even Amy Cooper (the Central Park lady, who worked in finance and was quite privileged) and just random young white women on social media. Those are women with real power, because they are wealthy and have access to powerful people and opportunities. That's not true of the vast majority of white women. So it just doesn't track to lump all white women in together and argue that a white woman talking about neutral lip gloss on TikTok is trying to enact "violence" on people of color. And it's such a leap that it starts to embrace a lot of misogynist tropes about white women -- that they are manipulative and power hungry, that they are shallow and selfish. Tropes that are often used to justify violence against women, actually.

The article might start out making some fair points, but when it ultimately lands on talking points that would not be out of place in a 4chan article written by incels, or an explanation by Harvey Weinstein as to why his behavior was actually justified, then maybe it's time to take a step back and ask yourself what your are doing and why.

Very well said.

There is a reason why DEI initiatives are embraced by corporations and it isn’t because they just love love love diversity.

Here is a hint: does any corporate diversity initiative in a non-union corporation ever focus on elevating the working class of all races? Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What I think is true is that the fashion pendulum is swinging away from curves and BBLs and contoured Kardashians and towards thinness and midriffs and minimal makeup. It's partly the Ozempic effect and all the newly-thin celebs and the attention they get. But also probably just the way fashion goes - there's always a blowback when something has been popular for a while. Those trends don't look fresh anymore.

What I think is wrong is that it's about white power. That might have been true if the last 20 years had actually seen white women pushed to the side. But as Steph Cao acknowledges, the fact that the trends were associated with blackness did not keep white women from adopting them. The Kardashians were emblematic of the era. So that doesn't ring true for me.

The Kardashians have been around for at least 20 years- the culture was going to move on eventually. And soon enough it will swing back again, and white girls will get criticized for appropriation again instead of white supremacy.

+1 the trends were moving away from the Kardashian drag makeup and full beat faces as early as 2018 I would say, and Covid really accelerated the change. Right now the trends are thin, “natural,” “wellness” and whatever else. In 5 years we’ll start seeing something else that’s trendy and in 7-10 years we’ll be fully past whatever phase we’re in now. Obviously people in their early 20s wouldn’t remember this, but the rest of us remember the very thin supermodels - who were big, recognizable celebrities, unlike most Runway models now - of the early to mid-90s gradually aging and going off the runways. The late 90s and early 2000s were still “thin” but the early and mid 2000s started more of a “fitness” look and women wanted visible abs and more muscles. Which was itself a throwback to the fitness/aerobics trend of the 80s. The heavy drag makeup and enhanced curvy bodies started in the early 2010s. After the current beige neutral aesthetic has run its course, maybe we’ll all start dressing in bright colors and prints for a few years and a fresh new crop of early 20s writers will be around to accuse middle age white women, who of course hold SO MUCH (cough) POWER in society, of copying off black women or something.

[Anonymous]

Clean girl is heavily influenced by Korean beauty. Minimalist beauty trends make sense as a backlash to the maximalist looks that used to be popular. And please don’t try to tell me gold hoops and lip gloss is a look unique to white women.

These people are just trying to drum up drama

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering the only current household name ballerina is black, associating balletcore with whiteness seems very silly. Anyway. I don’t think any of these aesthetic trends are uniquely white. They are probably uniquely UMC, but obviously it’s not only white people who are wealthy.

Misty Copeland is celebrated because of how incredibly unusual it is for a star ballerina to be black. Ballet is overwhelmingly associated with whiteness and thinness.

So? I could care less, as could many others. I so see performers because of their talent, not their skin color. And white people do not own ballet. What a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Clean girl is heavily influenced by Korean beauty. Minimalist beauty trends make sense as a backlash to the maximalist looks that used to be popular. And please don’t try to tell me gold hoops and lip gloss is a look unique to white women.

These people are just trying to drum up drama

Korean beauty and minimalist cannot be said in the same sentence. Have you every tried to follow their ten step skin routine, it's exhausting! Who has the time, not this white girl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Holy crap, just read the Steffi Cao essay that the piece was predicated on, and... wow.

"The white girl’s soft power is in victimhood. And without it, they are unable to afford the luxuries of committing violence under the guise of it, as they have done for decades."

I, uh, am struggling with my allyship in this moment.

If ONE essay and ONE person’s opinion is making you “struggle with your allyship,” guess what you’re not?

-White woman

Unfortunately, it's not one article. Dog-pile on the white women is all over the place right now.

Nevermind that the vast majority of us have no real power, have never "played the victim" to persecute a person of color, have never appropriated someone's look to make money, etc. etc. etc. No matter that we go to all the trainings and read all the books to learn. No matter. We are to be reviled simply for being white and women. And if you are middle-aged? You better not have an opinion about anything.

And there a lot of people out there loving this hating? Why?

Because most people are petty and small, no matter what their race, ethnicity, etc. If they feel they have been put upon, they enjoy nothing more than lashing out at someone else.

People suck.

I'm on board and can "identify" (lol) with just about everything you have said, but I can't agree that the majority of people suck. Those that do are typically poster Childs for victimhood and immature behavior they never grew out of, well, that and laziness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clean girl is heavily influenced by Korean beauty. Minimalist beauty trends make sense as a backlash to the maximalist looks that used to be popular. And please don’t try to tell me gold hoops and lip gloss is a look unique to white women.

These people are just trying to drum up drama

Korean beauty and minimalist cannot be said in the same sentence. Have you every tried to follow their ten step skin routine, it's exhausting! Who has the time, not this white girl.

Pp haha well you are fully correct with that one. I should have phrased it as an increased interest in skin health, often involving a ton of effort and products, for an end result that looks fresh and minimal in terms of makeup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clean girl is heavily influenced by Korean beauty. Minimalist beauty trends make sense as a backlash to the maximalist looks that used to be popular. And please don’t try to tell me gold hoops and lip gloss is a look unique to white women.

These people are just trying to drum up drama

Korean beauty and minimalist cannot be said in the same sentence. Have you every tried to follow their ten step skin routine, it's exhausting! Who has the time, not this white girl.

Pp haha well you are fully correct with that one. I should have phrased it as an increased interest in skin health, often involving a ton of effort and products, for an end result that looks fresh and minimal in terms of makeup.

Yes, much better stated. You almost had me believing I was a whiny baby for giving up on all their steps, love their skin, it's beautiful. But the time and effort does not go well with four kids. lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Clean girl is heavily influenced by Korean beauty. Minimalist beauty trends make sense as a backlash to the maximalist looks that used to be popular. And please don’t try to tell me gold hoops and lip gloss is a look unique to white women.

These people are just trying to drum up drama

Korean beauty and minimalist cannot be said in the same sentence. Have you every tried to follow their ten step skin routine, it's exhausting! Who has the time, not this white girl.

It's minimalist appearance with maximal work. Actually very common in the conversation around minimalism! Being a minimalist requires time and money and effort, and always has. The aesthetic is not about ease or acceptance or letting it all hang out. It's about control. Always has been, always will be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering the only current household name ballerina is black, associating balletcore with whiteness seems very silly. Anyway. I don’t think any of these aesthetic trends are uniquely white. They are probably uniquely UMC, but obviously it’s not only white people who are wealthy.

Misty Copeland is celebrated because of how incredibly unusual it is for a star ballerina to be black. Ballet is overwhelmingly associated with whiteness and thinness.

So? I could care less, as could many others. I so see performers because of their talent, not their skin color. And white people do not own ballet. What a joke.

Ha. Yup.

[Anonymous]

Just listened to this. She’s going to pull a muscle with that reach!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a woman of color and I find the article silly. What I guess I don't understand is the tremendous outrage it seems to have triggered here among white women. If you think it's dumb, that's fine, but what is it about this that makes white women so damn fragile about it all?

Being constantly told you’re a “Karen,” being constantly told you are not recognizing your privilege (never mind people having no idea what struggles you or your family have faced), being constantly told you’re a “basic B” or “have no culture,” being constantly told you’re not recognizing other people (again, when people don’t actually know who you are or what you’ve done), being told you’re not an ally, or not ally enough, or that your allyship is “performative,” being constantly told you are “fragile”…basically, you are never doing it right. Which is all fine and part of life and not a hard burden to bear, but it is never-ending.

Who exactly is this alleged to be happening to? I am a white woman and my experience of living is not in any way captured by this. I am not "constantly being told" anything like the above.

It's happening to Margorie T Greene. She is a victim reclaiming her power by speaking out.
At least that is how many in this thread view it. We the whites are being victimized by these people who love playing the victim. There is no argument here that I can agree with. The piece is just another opinion I disagree with.

ROTFLMAO.

[Anonymous]

Trends based in whiteness = nefarious advancement of white power

Trends based in other cultures = greedy cultural appropriation

The only answer is to be like me, so boring and untrendy that no one will accuse you of trying to do anything on purpose

[Anonymous]

I'm a 41 year old white woman, who is a makeup and skincare junkie, and chronically online. Everyone in this thread should take a look at the muacirclejerk and muacjdiscussion subs on reddit. There was just a great discussion about cosmetic conspiracy theories.

Here's what I believe:
- the "clean girl" aesthetic is inherently racist
- "clean beauty" is a really successful marketing gimmick to have products go bad quickly and thus sell more products
- "coastal grandmother" is inherently racist
- tiktok is literally empowering POC creators and it's great that racism in the beauty industry is being discussed
- the cosmetic industry is driven by white men capitalizing on women's insecurities
- it's interesting that from my skimming of this thread, no one has brought up the "hemline index" and the effects it can have on the cosmetics industry
- white women in the middle of the country are a legit problem and mostly have massive amounts of internalized misogyny that wreaks havoc on the country
- pale women need to stop whining about being able to find foundations light enough for them

[Anonymous]

None of the white women I know are into pseudo ballet style.
When I worked at a ballet company, a lot of the actual professionals and students wore plenty of makeup or had more eclectic and artsy style.