Is Yale losing its luster?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

.... for those wanting to join the 1% social club.

Not for those wanting to become global citizens or get the best education possible while not going bankrupt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYP will always be known as HYP. While there are plenty of other top caliber universities-Stanford, MIT etc, HYP are still the top 3 Ivies in the general public’s mind and still considered world class for many programs. No place can be top in every program.

Can anyone name a top 5 program at Yale outside of history, political science, and drama? That’s extremely weak for a school grouped with HPSM. Academically Yale is absolutely not up to par with the rest in that grouping. Outside of having a long history and a larger endowment, how is Yale better overall than say Columbia, UPENN, Duke for academic programs? HPSM on the other hand are clearly a step above the rest academically, Caltech too.

Well according to Niche they are top 5 in the following: Anthropology , sociology, architecture, art, biology, economics, English (6th), environmental science, film, foreign language, global affairs/international relations, history , math, philosophy, physics, psychology, religious studies. I’d say they’re holding their own with their peers.
Where they have not stood out in this STEM obsessed time we’re in is the hard sciences. But they’re pouring a lot of money into those departments right now. The kid I know who chose Yale over Caltech is super happy with his education and research opportunities. As to how they compare to Penn etc- who cares? These are all great schools. But they are only schools, not the promised land. What one does in the world with a degree is so much more important than the “ status” of the school and there are a million metrics for that anyway.

Niche isn’t the best for subject rankings. Yale is 100% not top 5 in math - that would be Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, CMU for undergrad, with Yale not being particularly close. It’s also not Top 5 in biology - John’s Hopkins, Harvard, MIT, Duke, and Stanford are all better for biology. Putting Yale in top 5 for physics is also a joke when you have Harvard, MIT, Caltech, Princeton, and Stanford being light years ahead. Economics is closer but Yale still isn’t as good as Harvard, Princeton, MIT, UChicago, or Stanford for econ. I would believe the history/sociology type placements, the humanities are definitely Yale’s strength.

Yes, only the sources that confirm your beliefs are acceptable.

Do you really believe Yale is a top 5 school in physics? Their contributions in physics are far behind the 5 schools I mentioned, and many other schools come before it in physics quality as well.

I don't care. I don't play this game. But the idea that some source is categorically wrong in your view, just because you disagree with the findings based on your beliefs and opinions is absurd and simple.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It just doesn’t seem to have the cachet it once had.

Yup.

There were a number of incidents back in 2014 or so suggesting it had become Wokeland.

Wow, nearly 10 years ago? How relevant. But these "woke" incidents only bother the Liberty University demographic, anyway.

You don't know how snow avalanches work do you?

Do you have a real argument?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

.... for those wanting to join the 1% social club.

Not for those wanting to become global citizens or get the best education possible while not going bankrupt.

+1 PP's really feeling it today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYP will always be known as HYP. While there are plenty of other top caliber universities-Stanford, MIT etc, HYP are still the top 3 Ivies in the general public’s mind and still considered world class for many programs. No place can be top in every program.

Can anyone name a top 5 program at Yale outside of history, political science, and drama? That’s extremely weak for a school grouped with HPSM. Academically Yale is absolutely not up to par with the rest in that grouping. Outside of having a long history and a larger endowment, how is Yale better overall than say Columbia, UPENN, Duke for academic programs? HPSM on the other hand are clearly a step above the rest academically, Caltech too.

Well according to Niche they are top 5 in the following: Anthropology , sociology, architecture, art, biology, economics, English (6th), environmental science, film, foreign language, global affairs/international relations, history , math, philosophy, physics, psychology, religious studies. I’d say they’re holding their own with their peers.
Where they have not stood out in this STEM obsessed time we’re in is the hard sciences. But they’re pouring a lot of money into those departments right now. The kid I know who chose Yale over Caltech is super happy with his education and research opportunities. As to how they compare to Penn etc- who cares? These are all great schools. But they are only schools, not the promised land. What one does in the world with a degree is so much more important than the “ status” of the school and there are a million metrics for that anyway.

Niche isn’t the best for subject rankings. Yale is 100% not top 5 in math - that would be Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, CMU for undergrad, with Yale not being particularly close. It’s also not Top 5 in biology - John’s Hopkins, Harvard, MIT, Duke, and Stanford are all better for biology. Putting Yale in top 5 for physics is also a joke when you have Harvard, MIT, Caltech, Princeton, and Stanford being light years ahead. Economics is closer but Yale still isn’t as good as Harvard, Princeton, MIT, UChicago, or Stanford for econ. I would believe the history/sociology type placements, the humanities are definitely Yale’s strength.

Yes, only the sources that confirm your beliefs are acceptable.

Do you really believe Yale is a top 5 school in physics? Their contributions in physics are far behind the 5 schools I mentioned, and many other schools come before it in physics quality as well.

I don't care. I don't play this game. But the idea that some source is categorically wrong in your view, just because you disagree with the findings based on your beliefs and opinions is absurd and simple.

Not the PP that you are responding. I did not do any research on this, but PP's assessment on power houses on math, physics, biology, and economics seem spot on for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:HYP will always be known as HYP. While there are plenty of other top caliber universities-Stanford, MIT etc, HYP are still the top 3 Ivies in the general public’s mind and still considered world class for many programs. No place can be top in every program.

Can anyone name a top 5 program at Yale outside of history, political science, and drama? That’s extremely weak for a school grouped with HPSM. Academically Yale is absolutely not up to par with the rest in that grouping. Outside of having a long history and a larger endowment, how is Yale better overall than say Columbia, UPENN, Duke for academic programs? HPSM on the other hand are clearly a step above the rest academically, Caltech too.

Well according to Niche they are top 5 in the following: Anthropology , sociology, architecture, art, biology, economics, English (6th), environmental science, film, foreign language, global affairs/international relations, history , math, philosophy, physics, psychology, religious studies. I’d say they’re holding their own with their peers.
Where they have not stood out in this STEM obsessed time we’re in is the hard sciences. But they’re pouring a lot of money into those departments right now. The kid I know who chose Yale over Caltech is super happy with his education and research opportunities. As to how they compare to Penn etc- who cares? These are all great schools. But they are only schools, not the promised land. What one does in the world with a degree is so much more important than the “ status” of the school and there are a million metrics for that anyway.

Niche isn’t the best for subject rankings. Yale is 100% not top 5 in math - that would be Princeton, Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, CMU for undergrad, with Yale not being particularly close. It’s also not Top 5 in biology - John’s Hopkins, Harvard, MIT, Duke, and Stanford are all better for biology. Putting Yale in top 5 for physics is also a joke when you have Harvard, MIT, Caltech, Princeton, and Stanford being light years ahead. Economics is closer but Yale still isn’t as good as Harvard, Princeton, MIT, UChicago, or Stanford for econ. I would believe the history/sociology type placements, the humanities are definitely Yale’s strength.

Yes, only the sources that confirm your beliefs are acceptable.

Do you really believe Yale is a top 5 school in physics? Their contributions in physics are far behind the 5 schools I mentioned, and many other schools come before it in physics quality as well.

I don't care. I don't play this game. But the idea that some source is categorically wrong in your view, just because you disagree with the findings based on your beliefs and opinions is absurd and simple.

So if the source says Yale is top 5 in physics, but it isn't top 5 in physics which you're admitting, then somehow you still think the source is good? The same source that says Yale is top 5 in math when it very clearly isn't? Now reread what you're saying and respond again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

The main thing is that Yale has fallen behind in STEM. Most kids choosing Yale over any combination of HPSM are humanities kids, which is great but the difference is that HPSM are exceptional in essentially all fields (believe it or not MIT has top economics, psychology, sociology, and political science programs). And if we're doing anecdotes, I know 2 kids who turned down Yale for Duke (same $$ at both), what does that mean then? Anecdotes can't be used to make the point.

[Anonymous]

My totally unscientific knowledge based on kids from my HS getting into different Ivies and people I've since met:

Harvard - The most overtly intellectual kids; also the ones with the highest opinions of themselves

Yale - The most flamboyant kids; also very opinionated and sure of themselves

Princeton - The best "all around kids"; super bright but not as overly intellectual as the Harvard or Yale kids

Columbia - The most diverse group of kids ethnically; proud of themselves for having navigated NYC as undergraduates

Penn - The most pre-professional of any Ivy kids and to a person will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead

Brown - Some really smart kids who marched to the beat of a different drummer (i.e., Harvard-quality intellect, but not Harvard-strength arrogance)

Dartmouth - Not even close to the other Ivies in terms of the smarts of the students, but intensely loyal to their alma mater

Cornell - Almost everyone I knew who went there was a grounded, hardworking engineer-to-be

[Anonymous]

^ Meant "overtly" rather than "overly"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My totally unscientific knowledge based on kids from my HS getting into different Ivies and people I've since met:

Harvard - The most overtly intellectual kids; also the ones with the highest opinions of themselves

Yale - The most flamboyant kids; also very opinionated and sure of themselves

Princeton - The best "all around kids"; super bright but not as overly intellectual as the Harvard or Yale kids

Columbia - The most diverse group of kids ethnically; proud of themselves for having navigated NYC as undergraduates

Penn - The most pre-professional of any Ivy kids and to a person will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead

Brown - Some really smart kids who marched to the beat of a different drummer (i.e., Harvard-quality intellect, but not Harvard-strength arrogance)

Dartmouth - Not even close to the other Ivies in terms of the smarts of the students, but intensely loyal to their alma mater

Cornell - Almost everyone I knew who went there was a grounded, hardworking engineer-to-be

Dartmouth had a special model where half the board of trustees were voted by alumni. Then a few people not endorsed by the administration were elected for alumni seats, and the administration changed the structure. There was a lawsuit by the alumni, but the lawsuit was dropped after they made sure their people were elected to head the alumni group, an easy task since they have access to the directory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

The main thing is that Yale has fallen behind in STEM. Most kids choosing Yale over any combination of HPSM are humanities kids, which is great but the difference is that HPSM are exceptional in essentially all fields (believe it or not MIT has top economics, psychology, sociology, and political science programs). And if we're doing anecdotes, I know 2 kids who turned down Yale for Duke (same $$ at both), what does that mean then? Anecdotes can't be used to make the point.

You’re debating whether a university has lost its luster. This is hardly some kind of rigorous inquiry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

The main thing is that Yale has fallen behind in STEM. Most kids choosing Yale over any combination of HPSM are humanities kids, which is great but the difference is that HPSM are exceptional in essentially all fields (believe it or not MIT has top economics, psychology, sociology, and political science programs). And if we're doing anecdotes, I know 2 kids who turned down Yale for Duke (same $$ at both), what does that mean then? Anecdotes can't be used to make the point.

Not a big surprise there. Wokes take over, bye bye math, science and facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

Poor choice, as Yale has really fallen off in terms of reputation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My totally unscientific knowledge based on kids from my HS getting into different Ivies and people I've since met:

Harvard - The most overtly intellectual kids; also the ones with the highest opinions of themselves

Yale - The most flamboyant kids; also very opinionated and sure of themselves

Princeton - The best "all around kids"; super bright but not as overly intellectual as the Harvard or Yale kids

Columbia - The most diverse group of kids ethnically; proud of themselves for having navigated NYC as undergraduates

Penn - The most pre-professional of any Ivy kids and to a person will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead

Brown - Some really smart kids who marched to the beat of a different drummer (i.e., Harvard-quality intellect, but not Harvard-strength arrogance)

Dartmouth - Not even close to the other Ivies in terms of the smarts of the students, but intensely loyal to their alma mater

Cornell - Almost everyone I knew who went there was a grounded, hardworking engineer-to-be

My take:

Harvard - NOT the most overtly intellectual kids. Agree they are the ones with the highest opinions of themselves. Not necessarily the best of the best.

Yale - The most intellectual kids. Well rounded. Not flamboyant. Great global citizens.

Princeton - Preppy and athletic. More conservative. Not as intellectual as Yale kids.

Columbia - They want the Big Apple. Got it. Wish they were located near NYU (with the benefits of being an Ivy).

Penn - Agree they are the most pre-professional of any Ivy kids. Disagree they will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead. They tend to be the most balanced between study and social life. Very smart and social students. Philly is under rated.

Brown - Agree many kids here march to the beat of a different drummer. Yale is also an accepting place for those kinds of students.

Dartmouth - Disagree with your assertion these kids are nowhere near as smart as other Ivy students. Agree they are intensely loyal to their alma mater. Isolated but pretty environment. Harsh weather for some. Wish I was near an urban core for variety.

Cornell - Harsh weather for some. Isolated but pretty environment. Harsh weather for some. Not everyone I know from there is grounded and hardworking. Wish I was near an urban core for variety.