Is Yale losing its luster?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It used to be HYP, but think it's more Harvard, Stanford, and then maybe MIT. Then below a step, Princeton and Yale..

I agree, but Princeton hasn't gone anywhere. Largest endowment per student in the world, still has top programs in math, physics, chemistry, etc. What it lacks for in graduate school research, it makes up for in extreme undergraduate focus and probably the top undergraduate experience in the US. So I'd say HPSM all stand together.

Most Princeton kids I know wish they'd gotten into Harvard

And most Northwestern, Columbia and Emory kids wish they’d gotten into HYPSM.

Lol... one of these schools is not like the others.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Harvard and Yale will always have luster. Thats not the question. The question is how many other schools are just as good, and the answer is many.

This. What’s changing is the notion of Harvard or bust.

The reality is that this isn't new to most of the country. There was a certain class of people who would attend these schools, and then they would also admit the top students from random schools across the country. It is the latter part that lead many to believe the entire school has always been the best and the brightest. Also, even the not so smart, but privileged class of students would go on to make a lot of money and get to nod to positions of leadership, because that's how it was always done. But again, that was never about the actual education.

This is so true. Our generations (X and millennial) benefited from that brief meritocratic period so we see those schools through rose-colored glasses.

Yeah. That was the era. Sure you still had athletic recruiting, legacy and donor tips but much lower URMs and no first gen. It was totally meritocratic as a result. How do you know? It was still like 65% white.

43% of Harvard’s white admits are legacy, student athlete, or related to donors. If you really want to go that route, pure meritocracy would have these schools being 40% Asian and 60% everything else

It'd be 50% Asian, 30% Ashkenazi Jew, and 20% everything else. This is why colleges had quotas against Jews before the current quotas against Asians.

And that's why the Jews now defend quotas against Asian Ams today.

So that they can protect their 30% slots while no one else notices.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:What luster? It's another overpriced school in a bad city with questionable admission practices...unless you are rankings/prestige obsessed or can write checks for 320k it's not worth it.

Please share examples of schools:
*that are well-priced
*in a good city
*with great admission practices

UMass Boston
Catholic U with merit
University of Central Florida
UMCP (easy train to DC)
UW-Seattle if you get WA residency
Pitt with merit
CUNY schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What luster? It's another overpriced school in a bad city with questionable admission practices...unless you are rankings/prestige obsessed or can write checks for 320k it's not worth it.

Please share examples of schools:
*that are well-priced
*in a good city
*with great admission practices

UMass Boston
Catholic U with merit
University of Central Florida
UMCP (easy train to DC)
UW-Seattle if you get WA residency
Pitt with merit
CUNY schools

That's a good start.

Plus many more in Canada, the UK and the EU.

Some PPs are just lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2021/05/07/analysis-new-haven-is-experiencing-a-rise-in-homicides-violent-crime-officials-residents-split-on-solutions/

eh, what is your point? New Haven was much worse a generation ago. It's gotten so much nicer now. I'd even call it charming. Back when I went to Yale, people went there despite its location. Now I think it's a draw (or at least it is for my kid). So this doesn't really fit into the narrative of Yale losing its luster (which is too funny btw, thx for the laugh).

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think with the varsity blues scandal and the Harvard sat stats per race that were released, a lot of the general public is starting to realize that ivies don’t have the best and brightest, but a lot of “hooked” kids.

Yale has had hooked kids for a long time, like other Ivies, but it's the academic qualifications of the unhooked kids that has taken a nose dive over the past 20 years.

There was a period when the Ivies embraced the idea of a meritocracy, and the best and the brightest both gravitated towards and typically ended up at Ivies. Then Yale and its peers pivoted towards promoting diversity over merit.

Pray tell when exactly was the period when the Ivies embraced the idea of a meritocracy and the best and the brightest ended up there? Was it pre 60s when they didn't take the best and brightest Jews? Or pre 70s when they left out the best and brightest women?

Read up on the history of these schools please.

Signed,

An Ivy grad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is Yale losing its luster? Yes, at least according to this article:

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/higher-ed-gamma/yale-decline

That is a very odd article.

Yale should develop an extension program? Ok.

Criticizes the law school for not expanding to take more students but then criticizes the college for expanding to take more students? Ok.

People are always gonna criticize the top schools. The fact that there's a whole thread and articles around Yale shows that Yale had not in fact lost its luster.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think with the varsity blues scandal and the Harvard sat stats per race that were released, a lot of the general public is starting to realize that ivies don’t have the best and brightest, but a lot of “hooked” kids.

Yale has had hooked kids for a long time, like other Ivies, but it's the academic qualifications of the unhooked kids that has taken a nose dive over the past 20 years.

There was a period when the Ivies embraced the idea of a meritocracy, and the best and the brightest both gravitated towards and typically ended up at Ivies. Then Yale and its peers pivoted towards promoting diversity over merit.

You are nuts. These kids are intimidating. Half of them could probably go directly into impressive jobs tomorrow and do well.

Yes, the kids who attended 20 years go were intimidating. Definitely not so today.

LOL 20 years ago they were your peers or close to it. Now theyre just kids.

Are you kidding me? I went to Yale 20+ years ago and I don't think I would get in today. Acceptance rates are way down.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think with the varsity blues scandal and the Harvard sat stats per race that were released, a lot of the general public is starting to realize that ivies don’t have the best and brightest, but a lot of “hooked” kids.

Yale has had hooked kids for a long time, like other Ivies, but it's the academic qualifications of the unhooked kids that has taken a nose dive over the past 20 years.

There was a period when the Ivies embraced the idea of a meritocracy, and the best and the brightest both gravitated towards and typically ended up at Ivies. Then Yale and its peers pivoted towards promoting diversity over merit.

You are nuts. These kids are intimidating. Half of them could probably go directly into impressive jobs tomorrow and do well.

Yes, the kids who attended 20 years go were intimidating. Definitely not so today.

LOL 20 years ago they were your peers or close to it. Now theyre just kids.

Are you kidding me? I went to Yale 20+ years ago and I don't think I would get in today. Acceptance rates are way down.

For whites and Asians.

Way up for blacks.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My totally unscientific knowledge based on kids from my HS getting into different Ivies and people I've since met:

Harvard - The most overtly intellectual kids; also the ones with the highest opinions of themselves

Yale - The most flamboyant kids; also very opinionated and sure of themselves

Princeton - The best "all around kids"; super bright but not as overly intellectual as the Harvard or Yale kids

Columbia - The most diverse group of kids ethnically; proud of themselves for having navigated NYC as undergraduates

Penn - The most pre-professional of any Ivy kids and to a person will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead

Brown - Some really smart kids who marched to the beat of a different drummer (i.e., Harvard-quality intellect, but not Harvard-strength arrogance)

Dartmouth - Not even close to the other Ivies in terms of the smarts of the students, but intensely loyal to their alma mater

Cornell - Almost everyone I knew who went there was a grounded, hardworking engineer-to-be

My take:

Harvard - NOT the most overtly intellectual kids. Agree they are the ones with the highest opinions of themselves. Not necessarily the best of the best.

Yale - The most intellectual kids. Well rounded. Not flamboyant. Great global citizens.

Princeton - Preppy and athletic. More conservative. Not as intellectual as Yale kids.

Columbia - They want the Big Apple. Got it. Wish they were located near NYU (with the benefits of being an Ivy).

Penn - Agree they are the most pre-professional of any Ivy kids. Disagree they will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead. They tend to be the most balanced between study and social life. Very smart and social students. Philly is under rated.

Brown - Agree many kids here march to the beat of a different drummer. Yale is also an accepting place for those kinds of students.

Dartmouth - Disagree with your assertion these kids are nowhere near as smart as other Ivy students. Agree they are intensely loyal to their alma mater. Isolated but pretty environment. Harsh weather for some. Wish I was near an urban core for variety.

Cornell - Harsh weather for some. Isolated but pretty environment. Harsh weather for some. Not everyone I know from there is grounded and hardworking. Wish I was near an urban core for variety.

+ 1

-1 especially the "great global citizens" part for Yale, which makes it sound like a second-rate high school IB "programme."

Also overkill with the "harsh weather for some" line. Why isn't that also the case for Cambridge? Boston can get pretty damn cold, too.

Harsh weather in the middle of "nowhere" is not the same as harsh weather in the middle of "somewhere" (proximate to an urban core).

Yale emphasizes service more than any other Ivy league school. This is consistent with "great global citizens". Why do you hate Yale?

+ 1 on this from a Yale grad. Yalies are really into service and very passionate about their causes. It's a really inspiring community to be a part of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think with the varsity blues scandal and the Harvard sat stats per race that were released, a lot of the general public is starting to realize that ivies don’t have the best and brightest, but a lot of “hooked” kids.

Yale has had hooked kids for a long time, like other Ivies, but it's the academic qualifications of the unhooked kids that has taken a nose dive over the past 20 years.

There was a period when the Ivies embraced the idea of a meritocracy, and the best and the brightest both gravitated towards and typically ended up at Ivies. Then Yale and its peers pivoted towards promoting diversity over merit.

You are nuts. These kids are intimidating. Half of them could probably go directly into impressive jobs tomorrow and do well.

Yes, the kids who attended 20 years go were intimidating. Definitely not so today.

LOL 20 years ago they were your peers or close to it. Now theyre just kids.

Are you kidding me? I went to Yale 20+ years ago and I don't think I would get in today. Acceptance rates are way down.

Meaningless. A lot of terribly unqualified kids getting in today due to a multitude of reasons.

[Anonymous]

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Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

Yep. I chose Yale over Stanford. A friend was waitlisted at Yale and got into Harvard. Chose Yale when she got in off the waitlist. I'm sure others chose Harvard and Stanford over Yale. These schools are all excellent. It's also about the fit, which is different for each student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My totally unscientific knowledge based on kids from my HS getting into different Ivies and people I've since met:

Harvard - The most overtly intellectual kids; also the ones with the highest opinions of themselves

Yale - The most flamboyant kids; also very opinionated and sure of themselves

Princeton - The best "all around kids"; super bright but not as overly intellectual as the Harvard or Yale kids

Columbia - The most diverse group of kids ethnically; proud of themselves for having navigated NYC as undergraduates

Penn - The most pre-professional of any Ivy kids and to a person will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead

Brown - Some really smart kids who marched to the beat of a different drummer (i.e., Harvard-quality intellect, but not Harvard-strength arrogance)

Dartmouth - Not even close to the other Ivies in terms of the smarts of the students, but intensely loyal to their alma mater

Cornell - Almost everyone I knew who went there was a grounded, hardworking engineer-to-be

My take:

Harvard - NOT the most overtly intellectual kids. Agree they are the ones with the highest opinions of themselves. Not necessarily the best of the best.

Yale - The most intellectual kids. Well rounded. Not flamboyant. Great global citizens.

Princeton - Preppy and athletic. More conservative. Not as intellectual as Yale kids.

Columbia - They want the Big Apple. Got it. Wish they were located near NYU (with the benefits of being an Ivy).

Penn - Agree they are the most pre-professional of any Ivy kids. Disagree they will volunteer they wish they'd gotten into HYP instead. They tend to be the most balanced between study and social life. Very smart and social students. Philly is under rated.

Brown - Agree many kids here march to the beat of a different drummer. Yale is also an accepting place for those kinds of students.

Dartmouth - Disagree with your assertion these kids are nowhere near as smart as other Ivy students. Agree they are intensely loyal to their alma mater. Isolated but pretty environment. Harsh weather for some. Wish I was near an urban core for variety.

Cornell - Harsh weather for some. Isolated but pretty environment. Harsh weather for some. Not everyone I know from there is grounded and hardworking. Wish I was near an urban core for variety.

+ 1

-1 especially the "great global citizens" part for Yale, which makes it sound like a second-rate high school IB "programme."

Also overkill with the "harsh weather for some" line. Why isn't that also the case for Cambridge? Boston can get pretty damn cold, too.

Harsh weather in the middle of "nowhere" is not the same as harsh weather in the middle of "somewhere" (proximate to an urban core).

Yale emphasizes service more than any other Ivy league school. This is consistent with "great global citizens". Why do you hate Yale?

How does Yale emphasize service more than other Ivy League schools?

[Anonymous]

^ standard bearers of what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Most students with choice would take Harvard for alumni power, Princeton for smaller undergrad program, MIT for STEM and Stanford for silicone valley over Yale any given day.

My own kid chose between HYP (in at all) and chose Yale. Hated H because it feels like a tourist attraction. Didn’t want to live in CA. Two friends rejected H/P for Yale as well. So, not sure what evidence supports your claim that “most students with choice” would take others besides Yale. In my world, that just isn’t true.

My child was admitted to both Yale and Harvard and chose Yale over Harvard. It was a very close call. Some kids choose Yale, others Stanford or Harvard or Princeton or MIT. All incredible choices each with a different flavor. HYPSM are still the standard bearers.

Yep. I chose Yale over Stanford. A friend was waitlisted at Yale and got into Harvard. Chose Yale when she got in off the waitlist. I'm sure others chose Harvard and Stanford over Yale. These schools are all excellent. It's also about the fit, which is different for each student.

My college roommate at Princeton turned down Harvard for Princeton, and didn't apply to Yale. Yes, different fits for different students.