schools w/ no merit aid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

My reaction to the graphics is that they’re stupid because they compare low income kids to sticker tuition. We all know that’s not the beef on DCUM. The complaint is that high income people are supposed to fork over their wealth. We all know low income people are getting majorly subsidized by the DCUM set so their incomes are irrelevant.

These graphs are also just another way of showing growing income inequality and how schools have fully seized the opportunity to take from the wealthy. Due to the inequality, they know there’s more money to take, and they are taking it.

That's not what they depict. It's not about low-income kids and sticker tuition. It's about tuition relative to HHI (in all classes). High income people have always forked over their wealth; it just wasn't as much in the past (yes, including for private schools).

The point of this thread is that college tuition raises have so greatly outstripped inflation and salary growth that it's priced out many people who otherwise could have afforded full tuition in the past. Colleges are not BMWs or Maseratis or Hondas. They are institutions of higher education. It's become a real burden for most working families, whether upper middle or lower middle class, to pay for higher education. Not being able to afford a luxury car is not a burden, but for many people, not being able to afford a college that our grandparents (who made less money, adjusted for inflation) could have paid for easily is a burden.

In my generation (I'm 61yo), the cost of attendance could be covered from savings, current income, the student's summer earnings, work study, and some modest loans. E.g. the expensive private SLAC I attended cost about $8,000 when I started in 1979, and I contributed about 25% of that from my summer work. Proportionally, a student today would have to contribute $20,000 to make the same dent in the same school's costs.

Adjusted for inflation, $8,000.00 in 1979 is equal to $32,838 today in 2023. But that school now costs over $80,000/year.

See also

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Once upon a time, a summer spent scooping ice cream could pay for a year of college. Today, the average student's annual tuition is equivalent to 991 hours behind the counter.

Yeah well my grandpa drove a truck and my grandma dropped out of high school at 15 to wait tables. My mom also dropped out of high school to work at KFC to fry chicken. I worked year round to pay for a state flagship you clearly look down on. I really have no sympathy for the fact that you feel entitled to your grandparents’ private school but didn’t successfully leverage all that generational privilege to afford. Actually, I’ll be honest. I’m effing thrilled you can’t have it. I hope all your spots go to first gen kids. Now you know. It was never a meritocracy. It was always something your crusty ass relatives were hoarding while pretending they earned it.

Actually, the opposite is true: It's hoarded now. It was not hoarded by anyone a few generations ago.

It WAS hoarded (it’s always been very limited seats). It was just being accessed by people who met standards your family could meet, like the right high schools, the right extracurriculars, the right background. Now you’re mad because different people are accessing it. Deal with it.

No, Post WWII it was very accessible for everyone, including people like me, a kid from a big family who attended a public high school. (Your alternate-reality depiction of my background is hilarious!)

Including Jewish, black, and Latino kids?

For Jewish kids- definitely! Elite undergrads and Med schools were looking for and giving huge scholarships for Jewish kids post-ww2. They were the URM of the moment back then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

You just breezed past this part.

You think it's A-OK that college costs are crazy and continue to be crazy for the indefinite future? You're good with that?

I agree college costs are crazy. But in most states there are several options that cost ~$25K or less per year. Or there are plenty of good schools with merit awards that will be similarly priced. In fact, there are far more options that are "affordable" than the elite/$80K schools. So instead of lamenting you can't afford ~50 schools, find the 200+ that you can afford and find the best fit. In reality, your kid will get an education and do well in this world.

The point is. One should not have to. People who save aggressively and do everything their supposed to do. I drive a 12 yo car. Live in the same "starter" home. Etc. Etc. I'm no spendthrift. At what we have saved, we should be able to afford just about anything but costs have skyrocketed. The rich have choices. The poor get aid. The middle gets nothing but what's left over.

The middle has choices. You are acting as if your kid can't go to college. They can attend a good 4 year college for without debt. If you really want the elite college and think it's so essential to your kid's future then you have the choice to take parent loans and go into greater debt (I'm not suggesting that as a good idea, because I'm not caught up in the "must attend an elite university" mentality). There are plenty of great schools that give merit, in fact I'd argue might be better than the T20 schools. Besides which, 95% of people applying wont even gain admission to these universities, so even for the rich, many, many, many of them do not get into any of the T20-40 schools. Yet those people "did everything they were supposed to"---sent their kids to elite private schools K-12 (or 9-12), spent $10K on college counselor, $10K on SAT tutoring, get that 1500+ SAT and 4.0+W GPA and still end up at a 50-120 ranked school---it happens for many. Everyone has choices. The poor may get aide, but they may struggle to adjust to life at a college where everyone has more money (including the middle class kids who attend)----they may not be able to travel home for breaks except xmas when dorms actually close, they may struggle with buying books and socializing as they have no spending money. The middle have so much more about life that is way better overall than the "poor"---I think most "poor kids" would jump for the opportunity to have grown up in a middle class household.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

You just breezed past this part.

You think it's A-OK that college costs are crazy and continue to be crazy for the indefinite future? You're good with that?

I agree college costs are crazy. But in most states there are several options that cost ~$25K or less per year. Or there are plenty of good schools with merit awards that will be similarly priced. In fact, there are far more options that are "affordable" than the elite/$80K schools. So instead of lamenting you can't afford ~50 schools, find the 200+ that you can afford and find the best fit. In reality, your kid will get an education and do well in this world.

The point is. One should not have to. People who save aggressively and do everything their supposed to do. I drive a 12 yo car. Live in the same "starter" home. Etc. Etc. I'm no spendthrift. At what we have saved, we should be able to afford just about anything but costs have skyrocketed. The rich have choices. The poor get aid. The middle gets nothing but what's left over.

My guess is that most middle class families would not trade their situations with the poor in order to get aid. That just wouldn't happen.

And the reverse: most poor families would jump at the opportunity to trade situations with the middle class rather than have to experience all they have over their life as a kid 0-22. Yes, someone will likely always have it "better than you", unless you are Gates's or Bezo's kids. But it's our job as parents to help our kids appreciate what they have and to set them up so they are not constantly dispappointed over the perception of what they don't have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

OP here. I guess I should have been smart enough not to acquire nearly $150K in medical bills due to cancer, as well?

Why don't you just stop with the speculation about what I should have done. We did all we could. And we saved a lot, notwithstanding that.

I never said my child did not have other options and wasn't considering other options. As I said, I grew up dirt poor and went to a non-elite school. I simply lamented HAVING to cross off schools -which are a perfect fit for her- solely based on finances. Especially when we saved aggressively for it. It sounds like people in the middle (too much money, but not enough) just can't go to these schools.

But, OP, pretty much everyone has to cross off certain schools that are a great fit, due to finances. Why did you think you’d be different? Why are you so angry? I’m sorry about your cancer but that should’ve been even more reason for you guys to realize that elite and expensive schools may not be possible. Or did you really live in a dream world where you thought the Wellesleys of the world needed to hand out merit aid to UMC kids?

Man, you people really are truly awful people. But, that is typical for here. Ugly, ugly people.

How is the post you’re responding to ugly? It’s honest, but not ugly. Maybe a bit condescending at the end, but not wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

You just breezed past this part.

You think it's A-OK that college costs are crazy and continue to be crazy for the indefinite future? You're good with that?

I agree college costs are crazy. But in most states there are several options that cost ~$25K or less per year. Or there are plenty of good schools with merit awards that will be similarly priced. In fact, there are far more options that are "affordable" than the elite/$80K schools. So instead of lamenting you can't afford ~50 schools, find the 200+ that you can afford and find the best fit. In reality, your kid will get an education and do well in this world.

The point is. One should not have to. People who save aggressively and do everything their supposed to do. I drive a 12 yo car. Live in the same "starter" home. Etc. Etc. I'm no spendthrift. At what we have saved, we should be able to afford just about anything but costs have skyrocketed. The rich have choices. The poor get aid. The middle gets nothing but what's left over.

My guess is that most middle class families would not trade their situations with the poor in order to get aid. That just wouldn't happen.

And the poor get a lot less aid than you think. Yes, if they are high achievers who can get into T25-type schools they will likely get it covered 100%. But outside that tier they are not. And, the schools that might give good merit aid to your middle class student who can pay $30-$40k may turn down a poor student with a high EFC because while they can bring the cost down to $30-$40k, they can't bring it down to what that student can afford.

I volunteer with low income students to help them with college apps. Most of the students in our program end up going to NVCC aiming to transfer to UVA or VT or they go to GMU because they can live at home.

Ding ding ding! Totally this. So hard to get admitted to a "meets need" school. I have one DC at a "meets need" and, having grown up working class, I can tell that many of his friends probably have a high EFC and are a mix of white and POC students. Most of them do not come home for any breaks other than winter and spring. The other DC is also at a meets need school, slightly more selective, and nearly all of DC's friends are from solid MC/UMC families. There are definitely FGLI students at the latter's school but do not seem as plentiful.

I was that LMC/working class kid at an elite school. I only went home at xmas break because that's all we could afford (900 miles from home). I had to work constantly on every break I had and during the school year, all while double majoring in two very time intensive/difficult majors (completing 6.5 years worth of courses in 5 years). I still had to take out loans. While half my friends went skiing or to Mexico or Europe over breaks, I was working 40+hour weeks. I was that kid who had to debate--do I really need to purchase the textbook or not as I didn't have enough money. I would have given anything to come from a home where I had more $$ growing up and parents who went to college who knew how to support me when I wanted to attend college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wellesley actually offers generous financial aid even to wealthier households. Have you run the NPC for that school? They use the CSS and take more into account than FAFSA.

Not for us. We now make too much. But, that was not always the case and that is not considered. We have no generational money. No parent support. We had loans of our own. We now make a very comfortable salary but that is a recent development and one that does not allow us to pay $70-80K / year without basically directing all of our income to school (at least for 2 of the years) and travel expenses getting to /from.

We were in a similar situation a few years ago. Kid ended up getting recruited to a target school (meaning his stats were towards the top) and getting some merit. We are able to fund it with a combination of 529 (had $130 saved at his high school grad) and making up the rest as we go. Did he get to go NESCAC like he wanted? Nope, but close enough and more affordable (although $58k a year is still a pinch)

OP- jumping off of the quoted post…why can’t you take some of your new income and cash flow some of her college education? You’re in a good position of knowing how to live at a lower income. The new higher income should be considered gravy when it comes to your DD’s education. Go for a safety, get some merit, and cash flow what you have to. Win-win

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wellesley actually offers generous financial aid even to wealthier households. Have you run the NPC for that school? They use the CSS and take more into account than FAFSA.

OP says they won't qualify for financial aid. You can predict that using the NPC and FAFSA estimations. Financial aid is determined by the FAFSA. OP needs merit aid. The top schools no longer offer merit aid because they don't have to - if you drop down to second and third tier schools and can offer something the school wants to trade for (high ACT score, etc.), then you might get an ACT offer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wellesley actually offers generous financial aid even to wealthier households. Have you run the NPC for that school? They use the CSS and take more into account than FAFSA.

OP says they won't qualify for financial aid. You can predict that using the NPC and FAFSA estimations. Financial aid is determined by the FAFSA. OP needs merit aid. The top schools no longer offer merit aid because they don't have to - if you drop down to second and third tier schools and can offer something the school wants to trade for (high ACT score, etc.), then you might get an ACT offer.

Some top tier schools do offer significant merit, such as USC and W &L, but they are not the NE SLAC op is searching for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

You just breezed past this part.

You think it's A-OK that college costs are crazy and continue to be crazy for the indefinite future? You're good with that?

I agree college costs are crazy. But in most states there are several options that cost ~$25K or less per year. Or there are plenty of good schools with merit awards that will be similarly priced. In fact, there are far more options that are "affordable" than the elite/$80K schools. So instead of lamenting you can't afford ~50 schools, find the 200+ that you can afford and find the best fit. In reality, your kid will get an education and do well in this world.

The point is. One should not have to. People who save aggressively and do everything their supposed to do. I drive a 12 yo car. Live in the same "starter" home. Etc. Etc. I'm no spendthrift. At what we have saved, we should be able to afford just about anything but costs have skyrocketed. The rich have choices. The poor get aid. The middle gets nothing but what's left over.

When I was applying this was also true of the *actual* middle class. I think you’re actually wealthy, because the true middle class never expected to be able to pay for an elite school from savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

My reaction to the graphics is that they’re stupid because they compare low income kids to sticker tuition. We all know that’s not the beef on DCUM. The complaint is that high income people are supposed to fork over their wealth. We all know low income people are getting majorly subsidized by the DCUM set so their incomes are irrelevant.

These graphs are also just another way of showing growing income inequality and how schools have fully seized the opportunity to take from the wealthy. Due to the inequality, they know there’s more money to take, and they are taking it.

That's not what they depict. It's not about low-income kids and sticker tuition. It's about tuition relative to HHI (in all classes). High income people have always forked over their wealth; it just wasn't as much in the past (yes, including for private schools).

The point of this thread is that college tuition raises have so greatly outstripped inflation and salary growth that it's priced out many people who otherwise could have afforded full tuition in the past. Colleges are not BMWs or Maseratis or Hondas. They are institutions of higher education. It's become a real burden for most working families, whether upper middle or lower middle class, to pay for higher education. Not being able to afford a luxury car is not a burden, but for many people, not being able to afford a college that our grandparents (who made less money, adjusted for inflation) could have paid for easily is a burden.

In my generation (I'm 61yo), the cost of attendance could be covered from savings, current income, the student's summer earnings, work study, and some modest loans. E.g. the expensive private SLAC I attended cost about $8,000 when I started in 1979, and I contributed about 25% of that from my summer work. Proportionally, a student today would have to contribute $20,000 to make the same dent in the same school's costs.

Adjusted for inflation, $8,000.00 in 1979 is equal to $32,838 today in 2023. But that school now costs over $80,000/year.

See also

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Once upon a time, a summer spent scooping ice cream could pay for a year of college. Today, the average student's annual tuition is equivalent to 991 hours behind the counter.

Yeah well my grandpa drove a truck and my grandma dropped out of high school at 15 to wait tables. My mom also dropped out of high school to work at KFC to fry chicken. I worked year round to pay for a state flagship you clearly look down on. I really have no sympathy for the fact that you feel entitled to your grandparents’ private school but didn’t successfully leverage all that generational privilege to afford. Actually, I’ll be honest. I’m effing thrilled you can’t have it. I hope all your spots go to first gen kids. Now you know. It was never a meritocracy. It was always something your crusty ass relatives were hoarding while pretending they earned it.

Actually, the opposite is true: It's hoarded now. It was not hoarded by anyone a few generations ago.

It WAS hoarded (it’s always been very limited seats). It was just being accessed by people who met standards your family could meet, like the right high schools, the right extracurriculars, the right background. Now you’re mad because different people are accessing it. Deal with it.

No, Post WWII it was very accessible for everyone, including people like me, a kid from a big family who attended a public high school. (Your alternate-reality depiction of my background is hilarious!)

Including Jewish, black, and Latino kids?

For Jewish kids- definitely! Elite undergrads and Med schools were looking for and giving huge scholarships for Jewish kids post-ww2. They were the URM of the moment back then.

Uh, no. They were being quota capped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

I'm not the PP, but basically yes. College costs are crazy and, being a former FAFSA kid, I'm kinda shocked that OP, who also claims to have been on FA in college, didn't realize that the costs were outpacing inflation and wasn't setting expectations accordingly with their DCs. The number of parents who get to their kids' junior or senior years and have absolutely no idea on how financing college works is stunning.

OP, you have enough money set aside that your DC can land a merit scholarship, attend a great school, and graduate debt free. That would be so great for your kid and an opportunity neither you nor your husband were able to have. Rather than focusing on what probably cannot happen, lean in to the fabulous opportunities your DC can have that many kids are not able to experience.

GL to your DC!

You just breezed past this part.

You think it's A-OK that college costs are crazy and continue to be crazy for the indefinite future? You're good with that?

I agree college costs are crazy. But in most states there are several options that cost ~$25K or less per year. Or there are plenty of good schools with merit awards that will be similarly priced. In fact, there are far more options that are "affordable" than the elite/$80K schools. So instead of lamenting you can't afford ~50 schools, find the 200+ that you can afford and find the best fit. In reality, your kid will get an education and do well in this world.

The point is. One should not have to. People who save aggressively and do everything their supposed to do. I drive a 12 yo car. Live in the same "starter" home. Etc. Etc. I'm no spendthrift. At what we have saved, we should be able to afford just about anything but costs have skyrocketed. The rich have choices. The poor get aid. The middle gets nothing but what's left over.

The entitlement is amazing and the fact that you don’t see it after poster after poster points it out is even more amazing. You did not save enough money for the elite school. I can’t afford to fly first class even though our HHI is objectively high because there are other things I want more. There are all kinds of things I would like that are nicer that I cannot afford. We all make choices between wants and needs. Isn’t it wonderful we have all the opportunities and choices. You can choose to find a way to pay for Wellesley with the fine UMC income you have. You can also choose not to because it costs too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

My reaction to the graphics is that they’re stupid because they compare low income kids to sticker tuition. We all know that’s not the beef on DCUM. The complaint is that high income people are supposed to fork over their wealth. We all know low income people are getting majorly subsidized by the DCUM set so their incomes are irrelevant.

These graphs are also just another way of showing growing income inequality and how schools have fully seized the opportunity to take from the wealthy. Due to the inequality, they know there’s more money to take, and they are taking it.

That's not what they depict. It's not about low-income kids and sticker tuition. It's about tuition relative to HHI (in all classes). High income people have always forked over their wealth; it just wasn't as much in the past (yes, including for private schools).

The point of this thread is that college tuition raises have so greatly outstripped inflation and salary growth that it's priced out many people who otherwise could have afforded full tuition in the past. Colleges are not BMWs or Maseratis or Hondas. They are institutions of higher education. It's become a real burden for most working families, whether upper middle or lower middle class, to pay for higher education. Not being able to afford a luxury car is not a burden, but for many people, not being able to afford a college that our grandparents (who made less money, adjusted for inflation) could have paid for easily is a burden.

In my generation (I'm 61yo), the cost of attendance could be covered from savings, current income, the student's summer earnings, work study, and some modest loans. E.g. the expensive private SLAC I attended cost about $8,000 when I started in 1979, and I contributed about 25% of that from my summer work. Proportionally, a student today would have to contribute $20,000 to make the same dent in the same school's costs.

Adjusted for inflation, $8,000.00 in 1979 is equal to $32,838 today in 2023. But that school now costs over $80,000/year.

See also

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Once upon a time, a summer spent scooping ice cream could pay for a year of college. Today, the average student's annual tuition is equivalent to 991 hours behind the counter.

Yeah well my grandpa drove a truck and my grandma dropped out of high school at 15 to wait tables. My mom also dropped out of high school to work at KFC to fry chicken. I worked year round to pay for a state flagship you clearly look down on. I really have no sympathy for the fact that you feel entitled to your grandparents’ private school but didn’t successfully leverage all that generational privilege to afford. Actually, I’ll be honest. I’m effing thrilled you can’t have it. I hope all your spots go to first gen kids. Now you know. It was never a meritocracy. It was always something your crusty ass relatives were hoarding while pretending they earned it.

Actually, the opposite is true: It's hoarded now. It was not hoarded by anyone a few generations ago.

It WAS hoarded (it’s always been very limited seats). It was just being accessed by people who met standards your family could meet, like the right high schools, the right extracurriculars, the right background. Now you’re mad because different people are accessing it. Deal with it.

No, Post WWII it was very accessible for everyone, including people like me, a kid from a big family who attended a public high school. (Your alternate-reality depiction of my background is hilarious!)

Including Jewish, black, and Latino kids?

For Jewish kids- definitely! Elite undergrads and Med schools were looking for and giving huge scholarships for Jewish kids post-ww2. They were the URM of the moment back then.

Hmmm, my FIL and his brother along with some classmates were some of the first Jews in any sizeable number to attend their elite undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wellesley actually offers generous financial aid even to wealthier households. Have you run the NPC for that school? They use the CSS and take more into account than FAFSA.

Not for us. We now make too much. But, that was not always the case and that is not considered. We have no generational money. No parent support. We had loans of our own. We now make a very comfortable salary but that is a recent development and one that does not allow us to pay $70-80K / year without basically directing all of our income to school (at least for 2 of the years) and travel expenses getting to /from.

We were in a similar situation a few years ago. Kid ended up getting recruited to a target school (meaning his stats were towards the top) and getting some merit. We are able to fund it with a combination of 529 (had $130 saved at his high school grad) and making up the rest as we go. Did he get to go NESCAC like he wanted? Nope, but close enough and more affordable (although $58k a year is still a pinch)

OP- jumping off of the quoted post…why can’t you take some of your new income and cash flow some of her college education? You’re in a good position of knowing how to live at a lower income. The new higher income should be considered gravy when it comes to your DD’s education. Go for a safety, get some merit, and cash flow what you have to. Win-win

They did cash flow and use "their new income". However, they made a choice to attend the target school instead of the NESCAC and save a bit of money ($20-22K/year). Smart choice IMO. They already stretched as much as they saw fit and their kid is at a good university getting an education. Unless you have the $$$ saved, I'd argue it is NOT really worth it to go into debt for an elite university. But if you choose to, then do it without complaining. It's your choice, but was not your only good choice. Anyone who can get into an elite university could choose to go elsewhere and get merit. They might do that to save money for grad school---which is a very smart choice IMO.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

My reaction to the graphics is that they’re stupid because they compare low income kids to sticker tuition. We all know that’s not the beef on DCUM. The complaint is that high income people are supposed to fork over their wealth. We all know low income people are getting majorly subsidized by the DCUM set so their incomes are irrelevant.

These graphs are also just another way of showing growing income inequality and how schools have fully seized the opportunity to take from the wealthy. Due to the inequality, they know there’s more money to take, and they are taking it.

That's not what they depict. It's not about low-income kids and sticker tuition. It's about tuition relative to HHI (in all classes). High income people have always forked over their wealth; it just wasn't as much in the past (yes, including for private schools).

The point of this thread is that college tuition raises have so greatly outstripped inflation and salary growth that it's priced out many people who otherwise could have afforded full tuition in the past. Colleges are not BMWs or Maseratis or Hondas. They are institutions of higher education. It's become a real burden for most working families, whether upper middle or lower middle class, to pay for higher education. Not being able to afford a luxury car is not a burden, but for many people, not being able to afford a college that our grandparents (who made less money, adjusted for inflation) could have paid for easily is a burden.

In my generation (I'm 61yo), the cost of attendance could be covered from savings, current income, the student's summer earnings, work study, and some modest loans. E.g. the expensive private SLAC I attended cost about $8,000 when I started in 1979, and I contributed about 25% of that from my summer work. Proportionally, a student today would have to contribute $20,000 to make the same dent in the same school's costs.

Adjusted for inflation, $8,000.00 in 1979 is equal to $32,838 today in 2023. But that school now costs over $80,000/year.

See also

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Once upon a time, a summer spent scooping ice cream could pay for a year of college. Today, the average student's annual tuition is equivalent to 991 hours behind the counter.

Yeah well my grandpa drove a truck and my grandma dropped out of high school at 15 to wait tables. My mom also dropped out of high school to work at KFC to fry chicken. I worked year round to pay for a state flagship you clearly look down on. I really have no sympathy for the fact that you feel entitled to your grandparents’ private school but didn’t successfully leverage all that generational privilege to afford. Actually, I’ll be honest. I’m effing thrilled you can’t have it. I hope all your spots go to first gen kids. Now you know. It was never a meritocracy. It was always something your crusty ass relatives were hoarding while pretending they earned it.

Actually, the opposite is true: It's hoarded now. It was not hoarded by anyone a few generations ago.

It WAS hoarded (it’s always been very limited seats). It was just being accessed by people who met standards your family could meet, like the right high schools, the right extracurriculars, the right background. Now you’re mad because different people are accessing it. Deal with it.

No, Post WWII it was very accessible for everyone, including people like me, a kid from a big family who attended a public high school. (Your alternate-reality depiction of my background is hilarious!)

Including Jewish, black, and Latino kids?

For Jewish kids- definitely! Elite undergrads and Med schools were looking for and giving huge scholarships for Jewish kids post-ww2. They were the URM of the moment back then.

Hmmm, my FIL and his brother along with some classmates were some of the first Jews in any sizeable number to attend their elite undergrad.

And this was nearly two decades after WWII.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short: we will not get any financial aid. We make too much for help but don't make enough to go full pay at a private in a way that leaves any wiggle room.

We are just starting this process, and child is an athlete that is in the midst of recruiting (only D3 at this point b/c of NCAA limits- and FTR I don't care if DC plays a sport or not but she does). I'm looking at the finances of the various schools and was shocked to learn that some of the schools she's been talking to give NO MERIT aid. DC has excellent grades, community service, ECs, and athletics.

I get she's one of many like man others . . . and I know at DC there are no athletic scholarships. But, how are people affording places like Wellesley? Their website and what I'm finding says they give ZERO aid on the basis that, essentially, "everyone there is special."

Yes, she can look elsewhere. And she is. But it is so sad to have to shut down a possibility that would, honestly, be such a perfect fit for her in every way. With room and board, etc. the cost per year is nearly $80K!!!! Two years would eat up more than our 529 has in it. Super bummed to have to limit her.

They are either poor enough to get a lot of aid, rich enough to not need it, or had parents putting away a lot of money from conception.

Well it is no shock that top schools would cost ~$80K/year when my kid would enter college. So we did plan for that and sock away as much as we could from an early age, as we knew we wouldn't qualify for any FA. Had we not been able to do that, our kid would have had to search out more affordable schools.

Congratulations on making enough money to save 320k per kid?

No, it's congratulation on planning. Anyone smart enough to save $160K should be smart enough to know that college will be up to $80K/year in 2022. SO if attending those "Top schools" is important you plan accordingly.
Had we not been able to save enough, I would have set the mindset with my kids that while you can apply to T40 schools, we might not be able to afford them. So, you need to have a balanced list of college choices. To me, the most important part is finding great schools that are affordable to YOU. And there are many, many, many choices available for everyone. The OP has ~$40K/year saved for DD. There are literally hundreds of amazing options that will allow DD to graduate debt free. If only the OP would change their mindset and focus on what's available instead of complaining.

Similarly, I don't buy a house/car/vacation that I can't afford. I live within my means, or deal with the consequences. I don't expect others to compensate me for my lack of planning. OP could likely now cash flow another $10K+/year if they wanted to, based on their statements. So if the Top college is that important, they can do that and take parent loans and pay them off now that they have a higher income. (not saying I'd recommend that, as I actually think that's a bad idea----no school is worth going into debt for). But there are options. Smartest option (IMO) is to find a great school list that is affordable....and many many exist, just not T20 schools.

This is such an uber-American, "personal responsibility" thought pattern. So when college costs $200K/year in the future, anyone who didn't "plan" should just be shut out? How about when it gets to a million dollars a year? Are we all good with it only being for the children of Elon Musk and the like and if we can't do it, well then the fault is somehow our own?

It has not always been like this. Private schools have always been more expensive than public, but not to the degree they are now.



Instead of pointing fingers at people for "lack of planning" by saving $300K+ / child, why aren't we demanding to know why the costs are so outrageously impossible for even wealthy people to handle?

You are NOT SHUT OUT. You are simply shut out of the “luxury” product version of college. You feel entitled to a Louis Vuitton degree for your kid on your Coach budget. I’m sorry that you’ve bought into the idea that admissions are the ultimate arbiter of your kids’ merit but there are plenty of affordable options including community college.

That is your reaction to these graphics?

My reaction to the graphics is that they’re stupid because they compare low income kids to sticker tuition. We all know that’s not the beef on DCUM. The complaint is that high income people are supposed to fork over their wealth. We all know low income people are getting majorly subsidized by the DCUM set so their incomes are irrelevant.

These graphs are also just another way of showing growing income inequality and how schools have fully seized the opportunity to take from the wealthy. Due to the inequality, they know there’s more money to take, and they are taking it.

That's not what they depict. It's not about low-income kids and sticker tuition. It's about tuition relative to HHI (in all classes). High income people have always forked over their wealth; it just wasn't as much in the past (yes, including for private schools).

The point of this thread is that college tuition raises have so greatly outstripped inflation and salary growth that it's priced out many people who otherwise could have afforded full tuition in the past. Colleges are not BMWs or Maseratis or Hondas. They are institutions of higher education. It's become a real burden for most working families, whether upper middle or lower middle class, to pay for higher education. Not being able to afford a luxury car is not a burden, but for many people, not being able to afford a college that our grandparents (who made less money, adjusted for inflation) could have paid for easily is a burden.

In my generation (I'm 61yo), the cost of attendance could be covered from savings, current income, the student's summer earnings, work study, and some modest loans. E.g. the expensive private SLAC I attended cost about $8,000 when I started in 1979, and I contributed about 25% of that from my summer work. Proportionally, a student today would have to contribute $20,000 to make the same dent in the same school's costs.

Adjusted for inflation, $8,000.00 in 1979 is equal to $32,838 today in 2023. But that school now costs over $80,000/year.

See also

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2014/04/the-myth-of-working-your-way-through-college/359735/

Once upon a time, a summer spent scooping ice cream could pay for a year of college. Today, the average student's annual tuition is equivalent to 991 hours behind the counter.

Yeah well my grandpa drove a truck and my grandma dropped out of high school at 15 to wait tables. My mom also dropped out of high school to work at KFC to fry chicken. I worked year round to pay for a state flagship you clearly look down on. I really have no sympathy for the fact that you feel entitled to your grandparents’ private school but didn’t successfully leverage all that generational privilege to afford. Actually, I’ll be honest. I’m effing thrilled you can’t have it. I hope all your spots go to first gen kids. Now you know. It was never a meritocracy. It was always something your crusty ass relatives were hoarding while pretending they earned it.

Actually, the opposite is true: It's hoarded now. It was not hoarded by anyone a few generations ago.

It WAS hoarded (it’s always been very limited seats). It was just being accessed by people who met standards your family could meet, like the right high schools, the right extracurriculars, the right background. Now you’re mad because different people are accessing it. Deal with it.

No, Post WWII it was very accessible for everyone, including people like me, a kid from a big family who attended a public high school. (Your alternate-reality depiction of my background is hilarious!)

Including Jewish, black, and Latino kids?

For Jewish kids- definitely! Elite undergrads and Med schools were looking for and giving huge scholarships for Jewish kids post-ww2. They were the URM of the moment back then.

Hmmm, my FIL and his brother along with some classmates were some of the first Jews in any sizeable number to attend their elite undergrad.

And this was nearly two decades after WWII.

Yeah PP is ignorant. Jews were capped/frozen out of elite institutions for decades after the war.