interesting discussion regarding abysmal decline of MoCo schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still the best public school system in the nation and significantly stronger than top area privates in STEM

The same poster who sent her kids to Blair and has no clue what is going on in area privates. Same post going on for years...

DP but why don't you tell us what going on in area privates in regard to STEM then?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Still the best public school system in the nation and significantly stronger than top area privates in STEM

Not even close on either statement. But they pay you to write garbage. Well done!

DP
No private school in the area can even come close to MCPS when it comes to STEM. That's a fact.
MCPS is still the best large school system in the nation.

Data from MCPS shows dramatic drops in elementary school students’ math and English test scores.

Literacy readiness dropped 35% for second graders from the 2018-2019 to 2020-2021 schools years, the data shows. Math readiness for fifth graders was down 25%.

Literacy was down for Black second graders by 38%. Hispanic second graders had a 46% drop.

Actually no. They are surpassing benchmark for literacy and are closing in on the math benchmark. They are catching up on the pandemic loss.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/09/23/montomgery-county-student-test-scores/

From WTOP, in case one cannot read it from the post. This report has been out since September but never discussed here because it doesn't fit DCUM narrative.
https://wtop.com/montgomery-county/2022/09/montgomery-co-schools-exceed-literacy-expectations-but-miss-target-for-math/

So, is there data showing that scores have improved since September? What is your point?

DP.. the point is that math instruction isn't up to par, probably because they don't give out enough HW for the kids to review. Math requires practice. They have about 30min in class to learn the material *and* do the classwork. That's not enough time. They need more math HW. Even 20min most days would help. Reading also requires practice, but kids get that practice in other classes like social studies/history, even science. They aren't getting enough math practice.

Academic data presented Thursday to the county’s board of education showed that roughly 72% of students met literacy standards, exceeding Montgomery County Public Schools’ target of 66%.

But for math, 61% of students met the county’s math standards, just short of its goal of 64%.

I think we can all agree that assigning homework is not an equitable way to educate.

So giving homework assignments is not, and can not be, the answer in Montgomery county. Period.

We should all agree that homework in elementary school is not an EFFECTIVE way to educate, but apparently we don't, so we keep getting foolish troll-ey posts like the previous one.

Why should we agree homework is not effective in elementary school? With schools adopting reform math's emphasis on conceptual understanding and no longer emphasizing learning fact tables, kids don't get sufficient practice in school learning their math facts. If kids don't learn their tables at home, either as homework or from outside work, kids won't develop fact automaticity and will suffer the rest of the way through. It's pretty hard to do Algebra if you can't add and multiply fluently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

It isn't. It's the same or better at least in terms of opportunity. What's changed is the county's demographics. This has an impact on test averages but doesn't mean your kid will do any worse than they'd do if demographics had remained the as 1990.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

It isn't. It's the same or better at least in terms of opportunity. What's changed is the county's demographics. This has an impact on test averages but doesn't mean your kid will do any worse than they'd do if demographics had remained the as 1990.

Definitely can affect you kid’s school experience. Also affects how the school system spends money. More money on ESOL staff means less money for other things (not a judgement call, just the way things work).

In ES, it has most definitely affected my kid’s experience. I have had kids at our neighborhood ES for over a decade and have watched it change. With mixed ability classrooms, the teacher HAS to spend the most time getting the kids who need extra help up to speed. The higher performing reading and Math groups simple meet less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It wouldn't be a new year in DCUM land if private shools parents and NoVa folks didn't start with their annual MCPS bash-fest.

Keep your head in the sand. One day your kid will hate you for giving them a terrible education.

So you don't have kids in MCPS, why are you posting here?

Just like they tell people when taxes go up to pay for school... EVERYONE benefits from public schools and all citizens have the right to scrutinize their performance.

Agree. My kids are in MCPS. But all of us Montgomery County residents pay taxes that support MCPS. All of us are allowed to have input as to what the school system is doing. With the enormous amount of money we spend on schools, it is reasonable to expect the school system to demonstrate good results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Grow some goddman thick skin. YES, changing demographics absolutely have affected school quality for the worse. I'm sorry you cannot handle the truth. When you import thousands of students from 3rs world countries who cannot speak a lick of English, you will absolutely being down school quality when millions of dollars and inordinate amounts of time have to be spent on remdial classes and basic English work students should have mastered a decade later. It is a brutal fact of reality. All of STEM uses English as a standard. All rigorous course material in science and mathematics must use English. It doesn't matter if you're in Japan, China, France, or the US. If you want a rigorous education in science and math, it has to be in English. The fact that we have to still teach basic English in high school and middle school is a MASSIVE drag. Even the Chinese publish top research articles in English. We shouldn't be spending millions of dollars and inordinate amounts of time teaching English in a country that uses English as the primary language for everything.

Depends on how you define "school quality" doesn't it? I define "school quality" as "quality of education for the actual students who attend the school".

There's also the issue that students who were born here weren't "imported" from anywhere, they were born here.

There have been many years when we did, in fact "import" an entire high school's worth of students, many who were unaccompanied.

Yes. MCPS is a popular destination for ‘unaccompanied minors’.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To PP, some of that comparison with other countries is unfair because other countries provide social services through other agencies that the US provides through its school so the cost of schooling looks higher.

I agree that central office needs to stop coming up with dumb initiatives for teachers and let the teachers teach.

But there is a bit National problem of teacher shortages. A good friend runs a small private school in another state. He had two young teachers quit mid year leaving him totally in the lurch, basically because they just weren’t feeling it. I have a relative who got a teaching masters but has never taught because decided she only wants remote work with a flexible schedule. It’s making life impossible for the senior teachers who have to have fill gaps with the inadequate staffing. I don’t really know what the solution is for this.

Schools in all school districts in this country are not social service agencies. That was a choice Montgomery County made.

And other school districts that decided it was better for the schools to provide the social services than for nobody to provide the social services.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/09/29/magazine/rural-homeless-students.html

The county has tons of social services.

Yes, the county does provide some social services. And other social services are provided by MCPS.

And some of those services are only accessible to families through the schools.

[Anonymous]

The rich move to MOCO for the privates and country clubs. Publics are finished nationwide among the wealthy. Covid exposed the rot. The middle class with common sense will need PODs and homeschooling. Anybody in public school that’s not in a magnet is either negligent, overwhelmed or oblivious to their surroundings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

It isn't. It's the same or better at least in terms of opportunity. What's changed is the county's demographics. This has an impact on test averages but doesn't mean your kid will do any worse than they'd do if demographics had remained the as 1990.

Definitely can affect you kid’s school experience. Also affects how the school system spends money. More money on ESOL staff means less money for other things (not a judgement call, just the way things work).

In ES, it has most definitely affected my kid’s experience. I have had kids at our neighborhood ES for over a decade and have watched it change. With mixed ability classrooms, the teacher HAS to spend the most time getting the kids who need extra help up to speed. The higher performing reading and Math groups simple meet less.

So kids that need help are getting more help?

How horrifying. We should definitely put an end to that.

[Anonymous]

Whenever are people talking about how tracking would solve all of the school's problems I have to roll my eyes. I think people only like the idea of tracking as long as their kid is at the highest track if your kid got into a lower track they'd start complaining and suing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whenever are people talking about how tracking would solve all of the school's problems I have to roll my eyes. I think people only like the idea of tracking as long as their kid is at the highest track if your kid got into a lower track they'd start complaining and suing

Those debates would happen at the margin. Overall, however, if you group kids, you decrease the range of skills in any one class, making it easier for teachers to target instruction where it's needed. Students in all of the groups benefit from targeted instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good discussion going on the local sub reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MontgomeryCountyMD/comments/102jg8a/parents_of_mcps_students_do_you_guys_have_a/

MCPS sound like an absolute disaster. Zero accountability. Zero standards. Rapid decline of quality. How long until people with money stop moving to this county to flee all of the progressivism ruining the schools and county? The only reason property values maintained value in MoCo was always because of the schools. The discussion going on now with messages from insiders is truly shocking. MoCo looks like it is in rapid decline and once the schools go, what reason will there be to stay?

It isn't. It's the same or better at least in terms of opportunity. What's changed is the county's demographics. This has an impact on test averages but doesn't mean your kid will do any worse than they'd do if demographics had remained the as 1990.

Definitely can affect you kid’s school experience. Also affects how the school system spends money. More money on ESOL staff means less money for other things (not a judgement call, just the way things work).

In ES, it has most definitely affected my kid’s experience. I have had kids at our neighborhood ES for over a decade and have watched it change. With mixed ability classrooms, the teacher HAS to spend the most time getting the kids who need extra help up to speed. The higher performing reading and Math groups simple meet less.

So kids that need help are getting more help?

How horrifying. We should definitely put an end to that.

Try again. That’s not what the post says.

The point is that the more resources are being spent in one area, the less money there is for other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever are people talking about how tracking would solve all of the school's problems I have to roll my eyes. I think people only like the idea of tracking as long as their kid is at the highest track if your kid got into a lower track they'd start complaining and suing

Those debates would happen at the margin. Overall, however, if you group kids, you decrease the range of skills in any one class, making it easier for teachers to target instruction where it's needed. Students in all of the groups benefit from targeted instruction.

+1

And if mcps would simply ditch benchmark and offer all students the enhanced reading instruction, I suspect everyone would do better.

In private school they teach reading through literature, and they also teach vocabulary and grammar. End result: well-equipped students.

Mcps demographics shifted dramatically and they pivoted to focus on test scores by dumbing down the curriculum. Big mistake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever are people talking about how tracking would solve all of the school's problems I have to roll my eyes. I think people only like the idea of tracking as long as their kid is at the highest track if your kid got into a lower track they'd start complaining and suing

Those debates would happen at the margin. Overall, however, if you group kids, you decrease the range of skills in any one class, making it easier for teachers to target instruction where it's needed. Students in all of the groups benefit from targeted instruction.

+1

And if mcps would simply ditch benchmark and offer all students the enhanced reading instruction, I suspect everyone would do better.

In private school they teach reading through literature, and they also teach vocabulary and grammar. End result: well-equipped students.

Mcps demographics shifted dramatically and they pivoted to focus on test scores by dumbing down the curriculum. Big mistake.

My friend: you clearly are new here. MCPS’ decline happened long before majority minority. The in crowd would like you to blame black and brown but the poor management is more a cause of the crappiness than little Juan from Nicaragua. Read about the Curriculum 2.0 give-away to Pearson; then about the mysterious hack of all student information: then the final 500,000 report from Hopkins that hood old fat Jack ordered to get rid of it. (Really to cover the fact that the horrible contract, signed in 2021, probably was for 10 years). What a lesson in utter incompetence/malfeasance.

[Anonymous]

*Sorry good old Jack Smith
*Signed in 2011.

When I am mad I type too fast. MCPS could still have been top had it not been for clear leadership failures - Weast, Starr, Smith and now McKnight