Rant about Deal and their religious field trip

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Men also frequently wear a head covering in mosques so they could have everyone wear one.

All the students could be asked to cover arms, legs, and heads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

The school is not requiring any student to cover their head while visiting the mosque.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’ll tell you this much, OP: all this does is teach your kid to hate. Not good.

OP here. Honest question. Why does it teach my kids to hate?

Your unwillingness even to tolerate a dress code so that your kid can learn about a mosque strictly as an academic subject sends a message of intolerance, inflexibility, and hate.

Her kid can learn about the academic subject in class. I hope you stretched before that massive reach you just made.

Not a massive reach. She’s basically saying she refuses to let her kid enter a mosque. It’s hate, pure and simple.

OP here. Nah, I don't hate muslims, catholics, jews, buddhists, mormons, scientologists, or any other person following any religion. And I wouldn't dare visiting a temple of any denomination and not follow their rules. That's why I have no interest in visiting any religious site. What I don't like is a public school "forcing" religious rules on my kids. And if you don't think the school is forcing them, I'd argue that the school is in a position of power. You might argue they might opt out but kids that age usually want to do whatever the other kids their age do.

NP. OP, it does appear to me that you’re acting out of intolerance and, frankly, selfishness. This world needs more love, more understanding, and more support for other cultures and belief systems. Requesting that your child follow the norms of another culture is part of showing respect for that culture. The school isn’t “forcing them.” As you already stated, you can opt out. This seems like an unusual fight to pick. Instead of arguing that the school is somehow using its power to abuse you, what if you reframe your thinking to seeing this as an opportunity for education and an opportunity to show respect to another culture?

How is tolerating the subjugation of girls and women an acceptable form of “respect”? If anything, as a child I would learn to hate religion and be intolerant of such ignorance and misogyny. But evidently it’s completely cool to DCUM that the girls will be forced to cover up and exhibit their virtue while the boys are not required.

As a man, when I visit a synagogue as a visitor or tourist, I manage to cover my head without ever being subjugated or hating Judaism. When I visit a mosque as a visitor or tourist, I wear loose fitting clothing and long pants and sleeves without being subjugated or hating Islam.

There is a difference between choosing to go as a tourist and going as part of a school sponsored trip. If the dress code is different for boys and girls and distributed in writing, OP should complain to the principal and DCPS and state that their child will both attend and adhere to the dress code for boys and that you will be happy to file a civil rights complaint if the school has a problem with it.

You sound like book banner. Don't stick your head in the sand and pretend there are no viewpoints in the world that don't comply with your views.

Islam, Christianity, Judaism and mamy other religions exist in the world whether you have knowledge of them or not. Don't be ignorant. Bring educated does not mean you agree with every viewpoint or artwork or religion or author, etc. That you study.

Public schools don't get to apply discriminatory dress codes or requirements. If the school feels head coverings are necessary for girls, they can either mandate them for boys too or find another field trip.

DP. Field trips to mosques make the news periodically and they all require girls to cover their heads. Can you point to any successful lawsuits against that or is your sense of what schools "get to" do based purely on what you think they ought to do, rather than the law?

I guess the ACLU doesn't know what they're talking about? You should request that they update their site

"Dress codes can’t be explicitly discriminatory.
That means that while dress codes may specify types of attire that are acceptable, these requirements may not differ based on students’ gender, race, religion, or other protected characteristics. Under federal laws protecting against discrimination in education – including Title IX, Title VI, and the U.S. Constitution’s equal protection guarantee, public schools cannot enforce a dress code based on gender- or race-based stereotypes about appropriate dress or appearance. For example, a public school cannot require girls, and only girls, to wear skirts or dresses, or require boys, but not girls, to wear short hair. This also goes for special events and occasions – such as prom, graduation, or yearbook photos. For example, while a public school can require “formal attire” to be worn at special events, it may not require that girls, and only girls, wear gowns – or that boys, and only boys, wear a suit."

https://www.aclu.org/news/womens-rights/4-things-public-schools-can-and-cant-do-dress-codes#:~:text=Under%20federal%20laws%20protecting%20against,about%20appropriate%20dress%20or%20appearance.

It's a school-sponsored event. It has a dress code. That dress code is discriminatory. That's illegal.

That's it. The fact that the event is optional is irrelevant. The fact that it's at a house of worship is a red herring.

If it's illegal, I'm sure you can find me a court saying that, since these kinds of trips have been happening for years all over the country.

If you'd bothered to click on the provided link you'd have seen the cite to the relevant federal laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

This is a condition for entering the mosque. Parents should not have to arrange childcare to opt-out.

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

The school is not requiring any student to cover their head while visiting the mosque.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:My kids are in 6th grade at Deal. They are studying religion in their geography class and, as part of the class, the school is organizing a field trip to a mosque, a church, and a synagogue. We are atheist but we understand that learning about religions is part of understanding the world. However, they are asking girls to cover their head/hair when entering the mosque; which I don't like. I mean, I 100% understand that the mosque requires that of women and I respect their requirement. It's their right. As is my right to never enter a mosque (and why I also try to avoid synagogues and churches as much as possible). But now the school is forcing me to tell my kid that I am not signing the consent form for them to go on the field trip. And I have to deal with my kids telling me that they will feel excluded. I guess it is a small price to pay for living in a religious society. I was naive in thinking that a public school wouldn't do this to families...I'm pissed off...End of rant.

Contact ACLU.

That hair requirement is clearly discriminatory.

Clearly you didn’t go to law school.

Disagree. I'm a lawyer too. As ppl are saying, the problem is not the mosque and its rules, which it is clearly free to have. The problem is the public school and the gender-disaparate rules.

+1 from another lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

State actor my ass. There’s no state action involved if the kids can opt out with no penalty. Did you go to a real law school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

Lawyers sure love to argue about nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

No, to be honest, I don’t. I would want my daughter to show respect to those whose house she enters. It’s the right thing to do.

It seems as if students can CHOOSE to wear a scarf on this trip. So what, exactly, is the problem?

[Anonymous]

Man the lengths some of you will go to excuse intolerance is absolutely absurd. I don't care what is the legal answer I just know I'd have no interest talking to anyone who is trying to federally loophole their way out of a very reasonable field trip. Get a life

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

Lawyers sure love to argue about nothing.

HA literally just posted this in a more long winded way. +1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

Also disappointing that you failed to notice the school has made no such official requirement.

It’s in the original post. But I get it you see Islam as primitive and WOC as being less than and less deserving of rights. Consider reading more Islamic feminists when not trolling DCUM.

And it was disproven in subsequent posts. Try reading the thread before you comment. Is this the depth of understanding you usually bring to your “reading?”

It was actually not disproven - in fact a woman wrote about being required by the mosque to wear a head covering. That is a common practice in misjads. Again, if families want to do make their daughters wear a headscarf- that’s on their conscience. But this is a school trip - during school hours. The school should provide an in-school option for parents who want to opt out of this misogynistic practice and/or demonstrate political consciousness and solidarity with the women and girls in Iran.

Please read this post one more time when you are not so heated and angry. No, this won’t weigh on the conscience of most people, who will see this as an opportunity to learn about a different culture. No, most people will not worry about the “misogynistic practice” because they will appreciate that there are American Muslims who choose to wear a head covering because they want to, not because they have to.

I’m fascinated by this distorted “tolerance.” We are called to support others. Is another woman’s head covering here in the US really such an affront to you? If so, that’s unfortunate.

NP. I don’t think anyone on this thread has a problem with women CHOOSING to wear a headscarf. We have a problem with a public school forcing that choice on girls to participate in a school field trip.

Do you really not see the difference?

Lawyers sure love to argue about nothing.

HA literally just posted this in a more long winded way. +1

Ha ha, yea. That’s why I’m a recovering lawyer!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hard pass. Ask to see if there is an in-school option. Having had family members forcibly veiled (even though not mandated by the Quran) I cannot condone forcing children to veil during school (state actor). Adults make their own choices in a democratic society. Children should not be forced. It is always disappointing when Western feminists fail their ideals. Being Liberal does not mean supporting illiberal ideals or holding of the patriarchy.

State actor my ass. There’s no state action involved if the kids can opt out with no penalty. Did you go to a real law school?

Kids can opt out of prom without penalty, but schools can't discriminate in how they put prom on.