WaPo: Suicidal students are pressured to withdraw from Yale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale seems insensitive. However, they have a huge liability if the student stays. What if they have a complete breakdown and shoot up a classroom? Then you would all blame Yale.

If only there were options between expulsion and doing nothing.

They should call it a medical leave, should behave humanely, should have excellent care on campus and provide support for return if it’s possible but the fact is kids who have attempted suicide absolutely need a leave. I said this earlier but imagine if an employer had an employee attempt suicide in the workplace and the person came back after the weekend with no break and no further evaluation for ability to safely return-it would not be safe or appropriate for the employee and it would not be safe and fair to coworkers.

There’s no way an employer would prevent an employee from returning. That’s a lawsuit waiting to happen. The Yale situation was like firing an employee for a suicide attempt, which would be an unwinnable lawsuit for the employer.

Yale actually handled it well by hospitalizing her and recognizing the problem. The parents didn't. This is not an employer situation and two very different issues.

Yale didn’t hospitalize her. They were informed after the attempt, and then all they did was pressure her to leave voluntarily so that they didn’t need to refund her tuition over an involuntary (and probably illegal) expulsion.

That's probably not why they wanted her to withdraw. Come on. Why jump to that conclusion?

Clearly yale’s behavior leaves a lot (!) to be desired but do you genuinely think kids who attempt suicide are less likely to attempt an again (and possibly succeed) if they go straight from their 48 hrs admission straight back to the same setting with no certainty if follow up or anyone even knowing? Part of being discharged from the hospital after a suicide attempt is the medical staff feeling confident there is appropriate safe follow up such that they are less likely to simply re-attempt. That *never* involves-“don’t tell anyone including the people I live with and simply return to my routine on Sunday after an earnest attempt to kill myself friday!”

If would he better for them to stay in an environment with friends, reduce their classes to 2 or even 1, join a support group and do weekly therapy.

That way they stay involved in moving forward in a positive way, but learn to slowly manage mental health, engaging with community, etc.

It’s actually explained in the link yo how BU handles it or the guide to returning to school after taking a break.

I don't know what BU charges but I don't know how anyone could actually afford this financially. Leave of absence, as another PP stated, would be better. Reducing course load might not be realistic financially. Plus, no one wants to take more than four years to graduate at a place like Yale. It's perceived as failure. Not saying it should be, but that's how it is.

I went to BU. I can tell you its a huge school and no one would even know you exist so that's probably why they don't care if they are more liberal about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

DP but I’ll also add that treating suicidality (which many people use to refer to depression with suicidal ideation) is very different than treating in the immediate aftermath of a suicide attempt. A history of an attempt is a much, much bigger risk factor than a history of suicidal ideation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

DP but I’ll also add that treating suicidality (which many people use to refer to depression with suicidal ideation) is very different than treating in the immediate aftermath of a suicide attempt. A history of an attempt is a much, much bigger risk factor than a history of suicidal ideation.

Exactly, but in some of these situations, there was an attempt. So, with that poster, weekly therapy, medication and other things might have been the proper treatment, but a 72 hour hold and released given how serious it can be, isn't enough for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a Yale grad of more than 20 years ago and absolutely cannot believe that this backwards awful policy and culture is still in place today. This is exactly how stuff went down in the 90s minus FaceTime and stuff. I remember both freshman counselors (like RAs), residential college deans, and peers urging classmates who were desperately struggling with their mental health to NOT leave school no matter how acute their situation because they would probably not be readmitted. It was a well-known fact and absolutely deterred desperate people from getting the help they needed.

I had an acquaintance who went to the ER and was admitted and inpatient at Yale New Haven and on suicide watch. We visited him. He did his coursework from a literal padded room and went right back to his dorm room days later because it was that or have to unenroll during senior year. He would do his coursework and then lay in bed for 20 hours. His parents’ and the deans’ workaround to having him lose his chance to graduate was to have his friends and acquaintances sit with him 24 hours/day on a rotating schedule. I haven’t thought about it in years and it was insane that we all went along with it. Who puts 20 year olds on a suicide watch in a dorm and thinks that’s a solution?!

Every school has problems with high achievers, competition, and pressure. But Yale is distinctly messed up in how it manages it. The issue is and always has been the school’s completely ancient, backwards way of distinguishing mental health leave from medical leave and the shame it attaches to the former.

I hope your friend is doing okay now. What an awful experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

DP but I’ll also add that treating suicidality (which many people use to refer to depression with suicidal ideation) is very different than treating in the immediate aftermath of a suicide attempt. A history of an attempt is a much, much bigger risk factor than a history of suicidal ideation.

Exactly, but in some of these situations, there was an attempt. So, with that poster, weekly therapy, medication and other things might have been the proper treatment, but a 72 hour hold and released given how serious it can be, isn't enough for many.

I agree--for some students, a withdrawal from school so they can attend intensive treatment is necessary for their mental health issues. But the best way to determine a withdrawal is in concern with the student, their doctors, and their parents. Some students depend on the school for health insurance, so being sent home means they lose their access to treatment at all. For some students losing the consistency of classes and the social interactions with classmates could be devastating and perhaps a shorter leave or accommodations might be more beneficial. When students have a role in deciding whether to take leave and how much to take, rather than being exiled as these students describe, they will feel more positive and hopeful about returning and that can only be a good thing for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

DP but I’ll also add that treating suicidality (which many people use to refer to depression with suicidal ideation) is very different than treating in the immediate aftermath of a suicide attempt. A history of an attempt is a much, much bigger risk factor than a history of suicidal ideation.

Exactly, but in some of these situations, there was an attempt. So, with that poster, weekly therapy, medication and other things might have been the proper treatment, but a 72 hour hold and released given how serious it can be, isn't enough for many.

I agree--for some students, a withdrawal from school so they can attend intensive treatment is necessary for their mental health issues. But the best way to determine a withdrawal is in concern with the student, their doctors, and their parents. Some students depend on the school for health insurance, so being sent home means they lose their access to treatment at all. For some students losing the consistency of classes and the social interactions with classmates could be devastating and perhaps a shorter leave or accommodations might be more beneficial. When students have a role in deciding whether to take leave and how much to take, rather than being exiled as these students describe, they will feel more positive and hopeful about returning and that can only be a good thing for them.

Keep in mind we are talking abt students who within the space of a couple days decided to and proceeded with an attempt to kill themselves. Their judgement and insight are impaired by their psychiatric illness. This is not a defense of yales terrible handling but some of you are grossly naive about the absolute five alarm fire that a suicide attempt is (and should be!)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

DP but I’ll also add that treating suicidality (which many people use to refer to depression with suicidal ideation) is very different than treating in the immediate aftermath of a suicide attempt. A history of an attempt is a much, much bigger risk factor than a history of suicidal ideation.

Exactly, but in some of these situations, there was an attempt. So, with that poster, weekly therapy, medication and other things might have been the proper treatment, but a 72 hour hold and released given how serious it can be, isn't enough for many.

I agree--for some students, a withdrawal from school so they can attend intensive treatment is necessary for their mental health issues. But the best way to determine a withdrawal is in concern with the student, their doctors, and their parents. Some students depend on the school for health insurance, so being sent home means they lose their access to treatment at all. For some students losing the consistency of classes and the social interactions with classmates could be devastating and perhaps a shorter leave or accommodations might be more beneficial. When students have a role in deciding whether to take leave and how much to take, rather than being exiled as these students describe, they will feel more positive and hopeful about returning and that can only be a good thing for them.

Keep in mind we are talking abt students who within the space of a couple days decided to and proceeded with an attempt to kill themselves. Their judgement and insight are impaired by their psychiatric illness. This is not a defense of yales terrible handling but some of you are grossly naive about the absolute five alarm fire that a suicide attempt is (and should be!)

Yes. And so Yale should know better than to shove a bunch of waivers into the student's face and tell them to sign so that the hospital can patch in the dean to tell them they're being expelled from the school.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely students with serious crisis situations should be placed into safer ones outside of the university. But as the PP says, booting them summarily is not necessarily the best approach. Planning with them how and why they will leave and return to the university is wiser and will help students feel safer about disclosing when they do need help. I am not sure any of us fully grasp the extent of serious mental illnesses present on college campuses today. Even pre-pandemic it was a major issue and determine the best way to handle it was on the radar: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/mandatory-leave-absence-college-students-suicidal-behaviors-real-story

[Anonymous]

I read this article today since it is on the front page of the print addition. The points that struck me (that haven't been raised)

-- the congratulations language of the readmit (now resinstatement, though that is a distinction with no difference, imo) letter is off. Congrats that you survived your suicide attempt and did enough stuff to come back is strange.

-- the idea that the relationships with Yale faculty as performative and calculated is a red flag.

-- makes me think the whole process is failing these kids. It seems what is required at Yale is more than a lot of kids can handle if 34% of students seek mental health counseling (compared to 11% at other schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read this article today since it is on the front page of the print addition. The points that struck me (that haven't been raised)

-- the congratulations language of the readmit (now resinstatement, though that is a distinction with no difference, imo) letter is off. Congrats that you survived your suicide attempt and did enough stuff to come back is strange.

-- the idea that the relationships with Yale faculty as performative and calculated is a red flag.

-- makes me think the whole process is failing these kids. It seems what is required at Yale is more than a lot of kids can handle if 34% of students seek mental health counseling (compared to 11% at other schools).

*edition (sorry - typing too fast).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools are not equip to deal with mental health challenges.

Read the article, Yale is way beyond this. They were cruel.

It's been a few years since we told our kids not to even think of applying to Yale if they want our help funding college.

There are a million better options out there.

[Anonymous]

"Confined to a room at Yale New Haven Psychiatric Hospital, S. asked her nurses and doctors with growing fear, “Do you have to tell them?”

Yes, they replied. Because she was a student, hospital staffers said, they needed to let college officials know, she recalled. They gave her consent papers to sign for the release of her medical information. She remembers how vulnerable she felt in her thin hospital clothes as she signed the release."

How has is not a lawsuit?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

DP but I’ll also add that treating suicidality (which many people use to refer to depression with suicidal ideation) is very different than treating in the immediate aftermath of a suicide attempt. A history of an attempt is a much, much bigger risk factor than a history of suicidal ideation.

Exactly, but in some of these situations, there was an attempt. So, with that poster, weekly therapy, medication and other things might have been the proper treatment, but a 72 hour hold and released given how serious it can be, isn't enough for many.

I agree--for some students, a withdrawal from school so they can attend intensive treatment is necessary for their mental health issues. But the best way to determine a withdrawal is in concern with the student, their doctors, and their parents. Some students depend on the school for health insurance, so being sent home means they lose their access to treatment at all. For some students losing the consistency of classes and the social interactions with classmates could be devastating and perhaps a shorter leave or accommodations might be more beneficial. When students have a role in deciding whether to take leave and how much to take, rather than being exiled as these students describe, they will feel more positive and hopeful about returning and that can only be a good thing for them.

Why does Yale make them withdraw from school? Why can't they take a leave of absence? Back in my day, a leave of absence was very common. You left, then you came back. NBD.

I can understand Yale asking for a mental health professional to state that the student is OK to come back to school before they allow them back, but forcing a mentally ill student to withdraw is cruelty. I'm glad the WaPo brought this barbaric practice out into the open. Yale should be ashamed of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You don’t seem to understand the severity of being suicidal. Weekly therapy is not enough. They need much more.

Weekly therapy is exactly how my suicidality was treated (and went into remission). Of course, I delayed getting help until after college and grad school for fear of being treated how these Yale students were.

That is not proper protocol and that's great if it worked for you, but that's not what works for everyone.

DP but I’ll also add that treating suicidality (which many people use to refer to depression with suicidal ideation) is very different than treating in the immediate aftermath of a suicide attempt. A history of an attempt is a much, much bigger risk factor than a history of suicidal ideation.

Exactly, but in some of these situations, there was an attempt. So, with that poster, weekly therapy, medication and other things might have been the proper treatment, but a 72 hour hold and released given how serious it can be, isn't enough for many.

I agree--for some students, a withdrawal from school so they can attend intensive treatment is necessary for their mental health issues. But the best way to determine a withdrawal is in concern with the student, their doctors, and their parents. Some students depend on the school for health insurance, so being sent home means they lose their access to treatment at all. For some students losing the consistency of classes and the social interactions with classmates could be devastating and perhaps a shorter leave or accommodations might be more beneficial. When students have a role in deciding whether to take leave and how much to take, rather than being exiled as these students describe, they will feel more positive and hopeful about returning and that can only be a good thing for them.

Why does Yale make them withdraw from school? Why can't they take a leave of absence? Back in my day, a leave of absence was very common. You left, then you came back. NBD.

I can understand Yale asking for a mental health professional to state that the student is OK to come back to school before they allow them back, but forcing a mentally ill student to withdraw is cruelty. I'm glad the WaPo brought this barbaric practice out into the open. Yale should be ashamed of this.

Yale literally just acknowledged (not apologized, just acknowledged) Yale involvement with slavery a year ago. This is not an institution prone to self-reflection or shame for its actions.

https://news.yale.edu/2021/11/01/yale-publicly-confronts-historical-involvement-slavery