Are therapists doing unmasked therapy for kids with anxiety about covid stuff yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one’s pretending it doesn’t matter. The whole thing sucks. We’ve been struggling with this for years now. All of us. (Even those that think covid is not a big deal now or ever).

Actually many are pretending and it’s not the ones like the posters who are screaming no masks suffering, it’s kids like mine who cannot do in person school or therapies due to the health risks of a parent getting Covid.

Being so incredibly high risk that you can’t send your child in an N95 for a one hour appointment with a therapist in an N95 must be very hard and scary indeed. You are your child both have my sympathy, absolutely. But I truly don’t understand what your point is with regard to this thread. You would be comfortable sending your child if the therapist masked for all appointments? Even though you would have no I did they spent 3 hours in a bar the night before? I am asking honestly here but I can’t imagine that is the case. .therapists should not be allowed to mask if the patient request…... So generally speaking I feel that information about the interaction that your child’s therapist has with MY child (including whether they are masked or not) is just like information about any interaction the therapist has in their personal life, which you are not entitled to.

What some people do seem to be saying, though, is that the parent’s wishes regarding whether or not the therapist wears a mask are the only wishes that matter. Not best practices, not the therapist’s health concerns and professional judgement, and not the well-being of other patients. This combination of entitlement in an effort to control other people to conform with one parent’s demands is chilling.

Wearing a mask isn’t normal and isn’t something that was done pre-covid. You’re going to have more and more of a problem trying to get the general population to mask for eternity.

It’s the new normal. Time for you to adapt.

LOL no it is absolutely not the new normal. See: everywhere other than DC and SF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

Yes, I think OP can reasonably ask for this. I also think that it’s more than reasonable for a therapist to refuse this request— for multiple reasons. While you are “allowed” to seek out services that you feel are appropriate, people providing those services are not only “allowed “ but ethically required to maintain environments that reduce health risks to others as well as to themselves. Clients don’t get to randomly dictate those standards. “Paying out of pocket” doesn’t change this.

While you MAY have “a legal right to services under IDEA”, there are limits to those “rights”. For practical purposes, since so many of the posters maintain that wanting to wear a mask when providing therapy is an anomaly, the simplest thing would be to find a therapist who doesn’t wear a mask. An individual patient has absolutely no right to services from a particular provider, and zero right to forcing an individual provider to alter their standards of care based on a particular client’s personal whims.

Precisely. There is autonomy in both directions at the individual level.

Your “autonomy” entails failing to do an important part of your job. As a therapist your autonomy does not entitle you to deliver bad services.

When the professional organization that provides certification for your specialty is at odds with an anonymous person on a discussion forum as to what constitutes best practices, I'm sorry to say the judgment of the DCUM poster does not hold the trump card.

Nobody is entitled to services from a particular provider, and you say this practice out of the norm. It should be simple to find another practitioner in line with your views. I have every faith you can and will, and I wish you well with it.

ASHA needs to reconsider its guidance and actually consider the obvious problems with masked speech therapy. And no its not simple to find new providers who unmask particularly if mask policies are set by the practice owners and not therapists.

Okay, so it's not just DC, but the surrounding states around DC, as well as some areas, but definitely not common. Okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

Yes, I think OP can reasonably ask for this. I also think that it’s more than reasonable for a therapist to refuse this request— for multiple reasons. While you are “allowed” to seek out services that you feel are appropriate, people providing those services are not only “allowed “ but ethically required to maintain environments that reduce health risks to others as well as to themselves. Clients don’t get to randomly dictate those standards. “Paying out of pocket” doesn’t change this.

While you MAY have “a legal right to services under IDEA”, there are limits to those “rights”. For practical purposes, since so many of the posters maintain that wanting to wear a mask when providing therapy is an anomaly, the simplest thing would be to find a therapist who doesn’t wear a mask. An individual patient has absolutely no right to services from a particular provider, and zero right to forcing an individual provider to alter their standards of care based on a particular client’s personal whims.

Precisely. There is autonomy in both directions at the individual level.

Your “autonomy” entails failing to do an important part of your job. As a therapist your autonomy does not entitle you to deliver bad services.

When the professional organization that provides certification for your specialty is at odds with an anonymous person on a discussion forum as to what constitutes best practices, I'm sorry to say the judgment of the DCUM poster does not hold the trump card.

Nobody is entitled to services from a particular provider, and you say this practice out of the norm. It should be simple to find another practitioner in line with your views. I have every faith you can and will, and I wish you well with it.

ASHA needs to reconsider its guidance and actually consider the obvious problems with masked speech therapy. And no its not simple to find new providers who unmask particularly if mask policies are set by the practice owners and not therapists.

Okay, so it's not just DC, but the surrounding states around DC, as well as some areas, but definitely not common. Okay.

It seems to be DC, MoCo, and SF now. The fact that the rest of the country has gone back to normal may unfortunately make it difficult for ASHA to take any action. Just being silent and letting everyone naturally return to normal is easier than ASHA having to take an honest look at the time period in which people were claiming that virtual school was fine and masked speech therapy totally OK too. That leaves us here having to fight to reestablish normality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one’s pretending it doesn’t matter. The whole thing sucks. We’ve been struggling with this for years now. All of us. (Even those that think covid is not a big deal now or ever).

Actually many are pretending and it’s not the ones like the posters who are screaming no masks suffering, it’s kids like mine who cannot do in person school or therapies due to the health risks of a parent getting Covid.

That's a really unfair burden on your kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If op has a thoughtful child willing to mask, why would you discourage them or refuse to have them mask. Maybe part of this is parenting.

My thoughtful child knows kids have always been low risk for severe disease, and that adults now have access to vaccines and therapeutics. And that the evidence on masks is really, really flimsy. And that they're uncomfortable to breathe in and that they impede communication and that no one wears them when we visit family out of the area and they're not keeling over or landing in the hospital. She can see through the BS.

Anyone with common sense can see through the BS. Covid spread rapidly despite people masking. Even if we did require 24-7 masking when not at home, covid would still spread.

Except people really, truly are irrationally commited to masks. I know people who got covid masked and still mask, but in places the arbitrarily believe are more dangerous. Like Safeway, but not the gym. What it really comes down to is a cognitive error of believing that masks protect you when you perceive other people as risks and have no reason to unmask; but in situations where you have a desire to unmask, then masks are not necessary. I believe this is the same type of cognitive error of DC-area therapists: they almost certainly unmask when it benefits them and discount the risks (like on vacation, out to dinner, the gym), but mask when they think it benefits them (like at work) AND they can control what other people do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If op has a thoughtful child willing to mask, why would you discourage them or refuse to have them mask. Maybe part of this is parenting.

My thoughtful child knows kids have always been low risk for severe disease, and that adults now have access to vaccines and therapeutics. And that the evidence on masks is really, really flimsy. And that they're uncomfortable to breathe in and that they impede communication and that no one wears them when we visit family out of the area and they're not keeling over or landing in the hospital. She can see through the BS.

Anyone with common sense can see through the BS. Covid spread rapidly despite people masking. Even if we did require 24-7 masking when not at home, covid would still spread.

Except people really, truly are irrationally commited to masks. I know people who got covid masked and still mask, but in places the arbitrarily believe are more dangerous. Like Safeway, but not the gym. What it really comes down to is a cognitive error of believing that masks protect you when you perceive other people as risks and have no reason to unmask; but in situations where you have a desire to unmask, then masks are not necessary. I believe this is the same type of cognitive error of DC-area therapists: they almost certainly unmask when it benefits them and discount the risks (like on vacation, out to dinner, the gym), but mask when they think it benefits them (like at work) AND they can control what other people do.

You’re over-generalizing based on your own imagination and experiences. There really are people, particularly those in health professions who have been mostly careful most of the time, often out of an abundance— possibly an over abundance— of caution and concern for the other people in our lives. You give two choices here: “truly irrational “ and “truly irrational” AND hypocritical— with little to bolster your own certainty beyond your own personal habits and beliefs.

FWIW — not everyone is discounting risks, and not everyone is going to the gym indoors or eating in restaurants and discounting the potential risks that they might associate with doing so. Projection is no substitute for actual information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one’s pretending it doesn’t matter. The whole thing sucks. We’ve been struggling with this for years now. All of us. (Even those that think covid is not a big deal now or ever).

Actually many are pretending and it’s not the ones like the posters who are screaming no masks suffering, it’s kids like mine who cannot do in person school or therapies due to the health risks of a parent getting Covid.

Being so incredibly high risk that you can’t send your child in an N95 for a one hour appointment with a therapist in an N95 must be very hard and scary indeed. You are your child both have my sympathy, absolutely. But I truly don’t understand what your point is with regard to this thread. You would be comfortable sending your child if the therapist masked for all appointments? Even though you would have no I did they spent 3 hours in a bar the night before? I am asking honestly here but I can’t imagine that is the case. .therapists should not be allowed to mask if the patient request…... So generally speaking I feel that information about the interaction that your child’s therapist has with MY child (including whether they are masked or not) is just like information about any interaction the therapist has in their personal life, which you are not entitled to.

What some people do seem to be saying, though, is that the parent’s wishes regarding whether or not the therapist wears a mask are the only wishes that matter. Not best practices, not the therapist’s health concerns and professional judgement, and not the well-being of other patients. This combination of entitlement in an effort to control other people to conform with one parent’s demands is chilling.

Wearing a mask isn’t normal and isn’t something that was done pre-covid. You’re going to have more and more of a problem trying to get the general population to mask for eternity.

It’s the new normal. Time for you to adapt.

LOL no it is absolutely not the new normal. See: everywhere other than DC and SF.

This message board is about DC, so yes, it is the new normal. I would not know what other places are doing as we don't travel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one’s pretending it doesn’t matter. The whole thing sucks. We’ve been struggling with this for years now. All of us. (Even those that think covid is not a big deal now or ever).

Actually many are pretending and it’s not the ones like the posters who are screaming no masks suffering, it’s kids like mine who cannot do in person school or therapies due to the health risks of a parent getting Covid.

That's a really unfair burden on your kid.

Yes, it is. But, there is nothing we can do about it when people are too selfish to take basic precautions. They'd far rather be cautious with us than lose a parent, who already suffered from long term health issues. Many SN kids also have their own health issues so not masking in a medical situation is really terrible. It very much sucks for my kids, but what is the alternative. A casket?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

Yes, I think OP can reasonably ask for this. I also think that it’s more than reasonable for a therapist to refuse this request— for multiple reasons. While you are “allowed” to seek out services that you feel are appropriate, people providing those services are not only “allowed “ but ethically required to maintain environments that reduce health risks to others as well as to themselves. Clients don’t get to randomly dictate those standards. “Paying out of pocket” doesn’t change this.

While you MAY have “a legal right to services under IDEA”, there are limits to those “rights”. For practical purposes, since so many of the posters maintain that wanting to wear a mask when providing therapy is an anomaly, the simplest thing would be to find a therapist who doesn’t wear a mask. An individual patient has absolutely no right to services from a particular provider, and zero right to forcing an individual provider to alter their standards of care based on a particular client’s personal whims.

Precisely. There is autonomy in both directions at the individual level.

Your “autonomy” entails failing to do an important part of your job. As a therapist your autonomy does not entitle you to deliver bad services.

When the professional organization that provides certification for your specialty is at odds with an anonymous person on a discussion forum as to what constitutes best practices, I'm sorry to say the judgment of the DCUM poster does not hold the trump card.

Nobody is entitled to services from a particular provider, and you say this practice out of the norm. It should be simple to find another practitioner in line with your views. I have every faith you can and will, and I wish you well with it.

ASHA needs to reconsider its guidance and actually consider the obvious problems with masked speech therapy. And no its not simple to find new providers who unmask particularly if mask policies are set by the practice owners and not therapists.

Okay, so it's not just DC, but the surrounding states around DC, as well as some areas, but definitely not common. Okay.

It seems to be DC, MoCo, and SF now. The fact that the rest of the country has gone back to normal may unfortunately make it difficult for ASHA to take any action. Just being silent and letting everyone naturally return to normal is easier than ASHA having to take an honest look at the time period in which people were claiming that virtual school was fine and masked speech therapy totally OK too. That leaves us here having to fight to reestablish normality.

The local military base just went back to full masking. Covid is not ok right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

Yes, I think OP can reasonably ask for this. I also think that it’s more than reasonable for a therapist to refuse this request— for multiple reasons. While you are “allowed” to seek out services that you feel are appropriate, people providing those services are not only “allowed “ but ethically required to maintain environments that reduce health risks to others as well as to themselves. Clients don’t get to randomly dictate those standards. “Paying out of pocket” doesn’t change this.

While you MAY have “a legal right to services under IDEA”, there are limits to those “rights”. For practical purposes, since so many of the posters maintain that wanting to wear a mask when providing therapy is an anomaly, the simplest thing would be to find a therapist who doesn’t wear a mask. An individual patient has absolutely no right to services from a particular provider, and zero right to forcing an individual provider to alter their standards of care based on a particular client’s personal whims.

Precisely. There is autonomy in both directions at the individual level.

Your “autonomy” entails failing to do an important part of your job. As a therapist your autonomy does not entitle you to deliver bad services.

When the professional organization that provides certification for your specialty is at odds with an anonymous person on a discussion forum as to what constitutes best practices, I'm sorry to say the judgment of the DCUM poster does not hold the trump card.

Nobody is entitled to services from a particular provider, and you say this practice out of the norm. It should be simple to find another practitioner in line with your views. I have every faith you can and will, and I wish you well with it.

ASHA needs to reconsider its guidance and actually consider the obvious problems with masked speech therapy. And no its not simple to find new providers who unmask particularly if mask policies are set by the practice owners and not therapists.

Okay, so it's not just DC, but the surrounding states around DC, as well as some areas, but definitely not common. Okay.

It seems to be DC, MoCo, and SF now. The fact that the rest of the country has gone back to normal may unfortunately make it difficult for ASHA to take any action. Just being silent and letting everyone naturally return to normal is easier than ASHA having to take an honest look at the time period in which people were claiming that virtual school was fine and masked speech therapy totally OK too. That leaves us here having to fight to reestablish normality.

Virtual school has worked well for my kids. It takes a lot of parental involvement but they are doing very well academically. Maybe you should consider your attitude and behavior and how it impacts your kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If op has a thoughtful child willing to mask, why would you discourage them or refuse to have them mask. Maybe part of this is parenting.

My thoughtful child knows kids have always been low risk for severe disease, and that adults now have access to vaccines and therapeutics. And that the evidence on masks is really, really flimsy. And that they're uncomfortable to breathe in and that they impede communication and that no one wears them when we visit family out of the area and they're not keeling over or landing in the hospital. She can see through the BS.

Anyone with common sense can see through the BS. Covid spread rapidly despite people masking. Even if we did require 24-7 masking when not at home, covid would still spread.

Except people really, truly are irrationally commited to masks. I know people who got covid masked and still mask, but in places the arbitrarily believe are more dangerous. Like Safeway, but not the gym. What it really comes down to is a cognitive error of believing that masks protect you when you perceive other people as risks and have no reason to unmask; but in situations where you have a desire to unmask, then masks are not necessary. I believe this is the same type of cognitive error of DC-area therapists: they almost certainly unmask when it benefits them and discount the risks (like on vacation, out to dinner, the gym), but mask when they think it benefits them (like at work) AND they can control what other people do.

You’re over-generalizing based on your own imagination and experiences. There really are people, particularly those in health professions who have been mostly careful most of the time, often out of an abundance— possibly an over abundance— of caution and concern for the other people in our lives. You give two choices here: “truly irrational “ and “truly irrational” AND hypocritical— with little to bolster your own certainty beyond your own personal habits and beliefs.

FWIW — not everyone is discounting risks, and not everyone is going to the gym indoors or eating in restaurants and discounting the potential risks that they might associate with doing so. Projection is no substitute for actual information.

Ok fine, but you also need to honestly discuss the costs to children of masking, especially during speech therapy and therapy with kids on the spectrum. You can't just ignore it and claim that everyone's subjective, idiosycratic view of risk cancels out every other concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one’s pretending it doesn’t matter. The whole thing sucks. We’ve been struggling with this for years now. All of us. (Even those that think covid is not a big deal now or ever).

Actually many are pretending and it’s not the ones like the posters who are screaming no masks suffering, it’s kids like mine who cannot do in person school or therapies due to the health risks of a parent getting Covid.

That's a really unfair burden on your kid.

Yes, it is. But, there is nothing we can do about it when people are too selfish to take basic precautions. They'd far rather be cautious with us than lose a parent, who already suffered from long term health issues. Many SN kids also have their own health issues so not masking in a medical situation is really terrible. It very much sucks for my kids, but what is the alternative. A casket?

Did you mask every RSV and flu season before this? Covid is now actually more treatable than RSV and flu, with vaccines, evushield, and Paxlovid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one’s pretending it doesn’t matter. The whole thing sucks. We’ve been struggling with this for years now. All of us. (Even those that think covid is not a big deal now or ever).

Actually many are pretending and it’s not the ones like the posters who are screaming no masks suffering, it’s kids like mine who cannot do in person school or therapies due to the health risks of a parent getting Covid.

Being so incredibly high risk that you can’t send your child in an N95 for a one hour appointment with a therapist in an N95 must be very hard and scary indeed. You are your child both have my sympathy, absolutely. But I truly don’t understand what your point is with regard to this thread. You would be comfortable sending your child if the therapist masked for all appointments? Even though you would have no I did they spent 3 hours in a bar the night before? I am asking honestly here but I can’t imagine that is the case. .therapists should not be allowed to mask if the patient request…... So generally speaking I feel that information about the interaction that your child’s therapist has with MY child (including whether they are masked or not) is just like information about any interaction the therapist has in their personal life, which you are not entitled to.

What some people do seem to be saying, though, is that the parent’s wishes regarding whether or not the therapist wears a mask are the only wishes that matter. Not best practices, not the therapist’s health concerns and professional judgement, and not the well-being of other patients. This combination of entitlement in an effort to control other people to conform with one parent’s demands is chilling.

Wearing a mask isn’t normal and isn’t something that was done pre-covid. You’re going to have more and more of a problem trying to get the general population to mask for eternity.

It’s the new normal. Time for you to adapt.

LOL no it is absolutely not the new normal. See: everywhere other than DC and SF.

This message board is about DC, so yes, it is the new normal. I would not know what other places are doing as we don't travel.

Well that's the point, isn't it? If you don't travel (because you're so covid cautious you won't get on a plane?) you are in an extreme minority and cannot even physically get out of the DC bubble to see that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How quickly this thread has shifted from an apparently reasonable concern voiced by a parent to unsupported ranting about masks, deliberate mischaracterizations of comments, and “alternative facts”.

Here’s an important takeaway: Professionals, particularly those in clinical professions, will do their best to protect their families, their clients, and themselves in these uncertain, challenging and changing times. No amount of ranting on the part of people who want to politicize public health issues will change this. What it will change, is that professionals will increasingly limit their practices, retire, and leave their professions for other options — in the face of the selfish expectations that therapists and other health professionals put themselves at risk for the supposed needs (both actual and imagined) of those who seek their services. In many areas, well trained clinicians, particularly those who specialize in working with children, are at a premium. Look for that to get worse as the many risks associated with working in these types of professions far outweigh any possible benefits, and as the realities of capitalism far outweigh the kinds of values that often lead people to pursue these professions at considerable cost to themselves .

Ok so do you think OP can reasonably ask for an unmasked therapist for her child? Can a parent with a speech delayed child ask for an unmasked therapist? Autism? Or are we not allowed to because this fails to demonstrate our understanding that our kids are just bothers and “risks” and we need to accept whatever we get. (Nevermind that we are usually paying your fees out of pocket, or have a legal right to the services under IDEA.)

Yes, I think OP can reasonably ask for this. I also think that it’s more than reasonable for a therapist to refuse this request— for multiple reasons. While you are “allowed” to seek out services that you feel are appropriate, people providing those services are not only “allowed “ but ethically required to maintain environments that reduce health risks to others as well as to themselves. Clients don’t get to randomly dictate those standards. “Paying out of pocket” doesn’t change this.

While you MAY have “a legal right to services under IDEA”, there are limits to those “rights”. For practical purposes, since so many of the posters maintain that wanting to wear a mask when providing therapy is an anomaly, the simplest thing would be to find a therapist who doesn’t wear a mask. An individual patient has absolutely no right to services from a particular provider, and zero right to forcing an individual provider to alter their standards of care based on a particular client’s personal whims.

Precisely. There is autonomy in both directions at the individual level.

Your “autonomy” entails failing to do an important part of your job. As a therapist your autonomy does not entitle you to deliver bad services.

When the professional organization that provides certification for your specialty is at odds with an anonymous person on a discussion forum as to what constitutes best practices, I'm sorry to say the judgment of the DCUM poster does not hold the trump card.

Nobody is entitled to services from a particular provider, and you say this practice out of the norm. It should be simple to find another practitioner in line with your views. I have every faith you can and will, and I wish you well with it.

ASHA needs to reconsider its guidance and actually consider the obvious problems with masked speech therapy. And no its not simple to find new providers who unmask particularly if mask policies are set by the practice owners and not therapists.

Okay, so it's not just DC, but the surrounding states around DC, as well as some areas, but definitely not common. Okay.

It seems to be DC, MoCo, and SF now. The fact that the rest of the country has gone back to normal may unfortunately make it difficult for ASHA to take any action. Just being silent and letting everyone naturally return to normal is easier than ASHA having to take an honest look at the time period in which people were claiming that virtual school was fine and masked speech therapy totally OK too. That leaves us here having to fight to reestablish normality.

Virtual school has worked well for my kids. It takes a lot of parental involvement but they are doing very well academically. Maybe you should consider your attitude and behavior and how it impacts your kids.

aaaan here we go folks. the same people agitating for masking kids IN SPEECH THERAPY are in the "virtual school is fine, schools were never closed, you're just a bad parent!" group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If op has a thoughtful child willing to mask, why would you discourage them or refuse to have them mask. Maybe part of this is parenting.

My thoughtful child knows kids have always been low risk for severe disease, and that adults now have access to vaccines and therapeutics. And that the evidence on masks is really, really flimsy. And that they're uncomfortable to breathe in and that they impede communication and that no one wears them when we visit family out of the area and they're not keeling over or landing in the hospital. She can see through the BS.

Anyone with common sense can see through the BS. Covid spread rapidly despite people masking. Even if we did require 24-7 masking when not at home, covid would still spread.

Except people really, truly are irrationally commited to masks. I know people who got covid masked and still mask, but in places the arbitrarily believe are more dangerous. Like Safeway, but not the gym. What it really comes down to is a cognitive error of believing that masks protect you when you perceive other people as risks and have no reason to unmask; but in situations where you have a desire to unmask, then masks are not necessary. I believe this is the same type of cognitive error of DC-area therapists: they almost certainly unmask when it benefits them and discount the risks (like on vacation, out to dinner, the gym), but mask when they think it benefits them (like at work) AND they can control what other people do.

Good Masks (N-95s etc) provide protection from Covid transmission to some degree if worn correctly. It is impossible to have any type of discussion if we cannot agree on that scientifically verified point.