Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
It’s not a “public health issue.” It is OP’s child’s individual mental health issue. You really just gave yourself away there …
I’m quite open with my opinions, so I’m fine with however you’re capable of taking them — including pretending that 17 pages and your own deliberately provocative comments are focused on the “OP’s child’s individual mental health issue”. Shrug. It’s funny how quickly my earlier, clinically focused comments were dismissed by people with anti-mask agendas.
I hope the OP found at least some aspects of this thread helpful.
Where are your clinically focused comments about health compulsions and OCD? Must have missed them.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
You really, really need to stop. Your posts are disturbing.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
Yikes. Please, just take yourself for a walk or a nap or something. You seem to be making up a massive story about the OP and it really seems wholly formed in your head. Remember that this is the internet and you aren't getting a full picture of anything based on a single post. You don't have the insight to judge what is going on with the OP, and therefore it helps no one for you to berate the OP.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
This child would benefit from an evaluation.
What makes you think a competent OCD therapist would not do an evaluation?
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
This child would benefit from an evaluation.
OP said child is diagnosed with anxiety among other things. Sounds like they have already done that.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
OP’s email explicitly said that OP was concerned about the child’s unwillingness to enter an indoor store without a mask and then asked about the availability of maskless therapy. The poster above is reasonably extrapolating from that statement. On the flip side, the OP’s child really could have significant anxiety issues that need to be addressed and I understand why one might think therapy would be more effective without a mask (although my child receives CBT in person with a mask and sees another social skills provider where the provider does not wear a mask but my child does).
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
This child would benefit from an evaluation.
OP said child is diagnosed with anxiety among other things. Sounds like they have already done that.
In addition, OP talked about going to a masked therapist (and feeling like it wasn't useful in making progress). So OP has a diagnosis and had a therapist. Doesn't sound like OP has done what OP is supposed to do.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
This child would benefit from an evaluation.
OP said child is diagnosed with anxiety among other things. Sounds like they have already done that.
In addition, OP talked about going to a masked therapist (and feeling like it wasn't useful in making progress). So OP has a diagnosis and had a therapist. Doesn't sound like OP has done what OP is supposed to do.
^^HASN"t done. "Doesn't sound like OP HASN'T done what OP is supposed to do."
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
You lack empathy if you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking. OP is identifying two pretty serious diagnosis. This child needs a full evaluation to know what is going on. Yes, I have a SN child. We got them evaluated, second opinions when appropriate and all the therapies they needed. Its called parenting.
NOBODY SUGGESTED THAT. Nobody. And the child's symptoms are totally classic OCD/anxiety - no need for a full neuropsych to delay treatment. Masked or unmasked, the key here is getting into a therapy practice that specializes in pediatric OCD.
OP’s email explicitly said that OP was concerned about the child’s unwillingness to enter an indoor store without a mask and then asked about the availability of maskless therapy. The poster above is reasonably extrapolating from that statement. On the flip side, the OP’s child really could have significant anxiety issues that need to be addressed and I understand why one might think therapy would be more effective without a mask (although my child receives CBT in person with a mask and sees another social skills provider where the provider does not wear a mask but my child does).
No, the PP said "you think its ok to use a therapist to bully a child into not masking." That's not a reasonable extrapolation from the OP's statements about the kid having a hard time entering stores without masking (as well as other behaviors about covid, which everyone here seem to be ignoring).
Seriously some of you have lost the plot if you are so invested in masking a child diagnosed with a mental health challenge, that might be helped without masking. Masking that the therapist can choose to do or not.
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