Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
It’s not a “public health issue.” It is OP’s child’s individual mental health issue. You really just gave yourself away there …
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
Why is there a debate? Op asked a question and found answers. Are we expecting to change someone ms mind? Is this conversation on a message board changing anything at all?
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
Anonymous wrote:Why is there a debate? Op asked a question and found answers. Are we expecting to change someone ms mind? Is this conversation on a message board changing anything at all?
Because some people are irrational about masks and cannot understand what OP is saying.
Anonymous wrote:Why is there a debate? Op asked a question and found answers. Are we expecting to change someone ms mind? Is this conversation on a message board changing anything at all?
Because some people are irrational about masks and cannot understand what OP is saying.
I’m fairly certain there is no way to assure you that it’s clear. No matter the opinion you personally carry. You being a general statement and not directly addressing YOU specifically.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
We fundamentally disagree. I think it perfectly reasonable for anyone (adult / child) to want to wear a mask in an indoor store based on the current level of Covid risk. Why would child want to risk getting significantly sick?
Read the OP. The child has *significant* anxiety/OCD like behaviors, that are focused irrationally on covid. The therapy would involve helping her assess the actual risk of entering a store without a mask. Similar to how not washing your hands can lead to getting sick; so therapy for someone with an OCD compulsion has to involve learning when to do the behavior. Covid really did a number on people with OCD.
There is nothing wrong with masking. If the child has anxiety/OCD, that needs to be the primary focus and treated but forcing a child not to wear a mask is silly. Wearing a mask right now is a good choice. They are two separate issues. If its that bad, child probably needs to see a psychiatrist for medication.
Yes there is something wrong with masking if its being driven by a compulsion and not relating to the actual risks of covid. This is true for adults and kids with OCD.
I am not a position to assess the OP’s overall concern about the child’s anxiety. I am only stating that it is wrong to push a child to go maskless into a public store at this time. While many (if not most) do go maskless, I don’t and I think that decision is supported by science. To me, the child’s anxiety is providing an appropriate warning as to this distinct issue of wearing a mask in an indoor public place.
Why is that “wrong”? CHOP just issued recommendations against school mask requirements. It’s really not necessary. Forcing her not to mask is probably not the best approach to anxiety therapy, but there is no “science” demanding people mask in stores at this point.
They go against all science and common sense. Why can’t this child wear a mask?
*sigh*. this is about a child with anxiety/ocd-like behaviors around covid. which could include compulsions about masking that go beyond the reasonable calculus a lot of adults have made about masking or not masking. many OCD compulsions involve behaviors that in isolation are normal. Its the compulsion that’s the problem.
You treat the ocd but zero reason to unmask but your own insecurity. After you bully the child into not masking kid will have the same issues and probably a few more. Why not respect their wish! Why does it bother you so much? Maybe you also need therapy for that.
This is the SN board. I suggest you take your mask campaign elsewhere.
You clearly do not understand long term covid risks. First of all, SN kids are at higher risk for severe outcomes. And Long COVID can exacerbate and create new medical issues. So if you think navigating life with a SN kid is hard now, buckle up, buttercup
^^anti-science
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that. 1 in 5 people who've had covid end up with long covid, and neuropsych long term symptoms are common. But, you do you---sorry brunch outweighed your child's long term health
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
Who is “we”? Most of the dmv is not in “high transmission”. Quit making stuff up to support your weird desire to mask children and then blame negative outcomes on their parents.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
Who is “we”? Most of the dmv is not in “high transmission”. Quit making stuff up to support your weird desire to mask children and then blame negative outcomes on their parents.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
Dp. It is quite obvious that poster does not have special needs kids. Nor any empathy towards special needs families. She really should be banned from the SN forum. It’s pretty gross.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
It’s not a “public health issue.” It is OP’s child’s individual mental health issue. You really just gave yourself away there …
I’m quite open with my opinions, so I’m fine with however you’re capable of taking them — including pretending that 17 pages and your own deliberately provocative comments are focused on the “OP’s child’s individual mental health issue”. Shrug. It’s funny how quickly my earlier, clinically focused comments were dismissed by people with anti-mask agendas.
I hope the OP found at least some aspects of this thread helpful.
Anonymous wrote:DP. But an individual's subjective and idiosyncratic views of risk re: COVID do trump everything else -- that is, nobody is an indentured servant or can be chained to a wall to provide unmasked care.
I suppose they can be let go or fired, but they can't forcibly be made to take risks. I think you know that, though. It's basic bodily autonomy.
If your views on health risks are out of step with the rest of the country/world, and they are likely interfering with therapy, then yeah, the provider has a duty to think it through. We are almost three years into this; no more excuse for policies that compromise care (like masked speech therapy, limiting visitors in hospitals) just because it has the appearance of reducing risk.
Does "thinking it through" mean "come to the same conclusion as I do" to you?
Thinking it through means an honest assessment of the costs and benefits. I have not seen that in this discussion. Instead people deny that masking has any impact.
Anyway, CHOP in Philly just released their school year recommendations, which do NOT include masking. It's interesting that all these therapists know better than the nation's premier children's hospital.
"Unless required by health departments, schools and early childhood programs no longer need to enact masking requirements within school settings."
Please quote the post that claims this, since you keep citing it. I don't see it.
Dp. Are you for real? People claim that on this site daily. I’m not going to go through however many pages of posts, but I see claims all the time on this site that any negative impacts (that people rightly deduce stem from pandemic restrictions) is obviously because of pre-existing anxiety or something the parents have done wrong.
Okay. So you can't post to anyone in this 2 day old thread we are in who has claimed this, so we can agree those people are not participating in this discussion.
You can stop referencing them as if they are a part of the conversation now.
Ok. I went to the first page. Page 1. Go look. Someone says it’s “all learned behavior. Stop freaking your child out”. So blaming the parents.
Her child's anxiety about masks is a learned behavior, unless you are claiming that babies are born with an inherent fear of masks. (They aren't.)
As to whether masking has any effect at all on learning, I don't see anyone claiming it doesn't. But if you want to move the goalposts, by all means carry on.
Again. I’m not reading this entire thread. I started and I find it just sad and somewhat appalling. But this site is full of people denying that pandemic restrictions have had any impact on children and their mental health. There’s even people who claim children never experienced restrictions. So the OP is rightly feeling unsupported in her search for an appropriate therapist for her child.
You might go back and skim to see that no one said there aren’t issues with masks. Simply find a provider who’s use of them matches your own needs and preferences. Several suggestions of mask free or mask adaptable/flexible therapists have been offered or chimed in.
Of course people on this thread are denying issues with masks. Like, there are people who are suggesting that the Op doesn’t know their child. It’s sad, particularly in a forum for issues for SN kids. Surely many parents of SN kids have heard that the problems our kids struggle with are not real or all due to poor parenting. And yet here you have those parents doing the same thing to a similar parent.
On the OP, I am fine with trying to find a maskless therapy option in the abstract. My question about the OP is that her comments suggest the OP is pushing an anti-mask approach on a child who is anxious about Covid. Specifically, she wrote about frustration about her child’s reluctance to enter a store without a mask. I see no reason to push your child to go into a public indoor store without a mask. While I don’t want to downplay the concerns about the child’s anxiety, there are suggestions in OP’s comments that OP is in part pushing her child to give up concerns about Covid that are reasonable.
Because the mask really isn’t necessary, PP. It’s one thing for an adult to say “Oh, I am covid cautious and wear my mask in CVS because I really hate being sick/have a trip coming up/want to go see my grandma next week.” Quite another for a child with anxiety/OCD tendencies to be frightened of going anywhere without a mask. I get that people mask at this point for a variety of personal reasons and that’s fine. But OP’s child seems like they have anxieties out of proportion with the risk. Part of effective anxiety treatment would be for her to understand the actual risk.
Your assertion that “the mask really isn’t necessary “ is your opinion, although I’m sure you have justifications for that opinion. As recently as yesterday, researchers whose opinions that I trust held that high quality masks, properly worn, help prevent spreading COVID and other diseases. Since you get that an adult can reasonably wear a mask, why not a kid? I agree with you that part of effectively managing the anxiety is understanding how to assess actual risks. In this case, the kid is doing something that many educated, informed adults would view as appropriate. The parent disagrees — and wants to normalize her own beliefs as she searches for a therapist that shares these very-much-not-universal beliefs. I sincerely hope that the kid gets appropriate and effective treatment for the anxiety. I also sincerely hope that family therapy is part of this treatment.
The child is SEVEN. She's not making an independent, informed decision to mask. She's being driven by compulsions/anxiety. The whole point is that she is not making a reasonable decision. She has an anxiety disorder.
Obviously I don’t know this kid. I do know many kids, including some who have anxiety disorders. They make decisions all the time. They decide not to cross streets by themselves without permission. They decide to be nice to Susie on the playground, to complete their assignment in class, and to obey their parents. They decide to cough into their elbows, and to avoid drinking from bottles under the sink. They decide which outfits to wear to the playground. “Reasonable “ to her — and to many, many older, wiser people, is different from the OP’s “reasonable “. An adept family therapist can help them both with this, while being quite mindful of issues related to anxiety.
This comment just shows you really know nothing about anxiety and OCD.
Lol And your comment shows that you know even less. I’m done with trying to comment constructively when so many of you prefer to politicize a public health issue even in the SN forum. Have at it.
You’re the one policitizing this and doubting and criticizing OP because her post even dares to suggest that its OK not to wear a mask. Come on. I’ve posted REPEATEDLY on here about how masking can become an OCD compulsion and how this can exist *in parallel* with reasonable family decisions about masking. And the response from you and PPs are exclusively focused on masks and not the actual mental health issue. Casting aspersions on OP for “bullying” her child into not masking; making false assertions about long covid and kids that are irrelevant to OCD; etc etc. In fact you all seem to want to exploit the child’s mental health struggles to bolster your mask-forever agenda.
I’ll say it again: OCD complusions often (if not always!) can be healthy and normal practices in other contexts. It is the compulsion piece that is then problem. And as much as you hate it, the majority are not masking anymore, so the child will need to learn to cope with that. Given all of this, it is extremely reasonable for OP to think about how a mask policy in therapy will fit into effective therapy.
NOBODY is saying to force OP’s daughter not to mask. E
This is utter nonsense. Masking is not a compulsion and its recommended masking right now. Is this the only area that the child is showing an issue? If it is, OP is the problem, not the child. If its not, the masking is a minor issue and really not an issue at all.
FFS. You need to stop.
You need to stop. We are in a high level of transmission. This kid is the only one with common sense. If there is OCD and Anxiety this kid needs a full neuropsych and medication/therapy not just a therapist to convince her she doesn't need to mask because mom does not want her to. You clearly don't get mental health issues and there is nothing wrong with masking. My kids automatically mask anywhere indoors. Its just their routine now.
My god, the lack of empathy. Do you even have SN kids?
Dp. It is quite obvious that poster does not have special needs kids. Nor any empathy towards special needs families. She really should be banned from the SN forum. It’s pretty gross.
Yeah this thread has really gone off the rails. Covid has been very difficult for people with health OCD. We had our challenges for sure, and I'm grateful that one of them was not health compulsions. I actually thank my DH for that because he is MUCH less covid cautious than me, and this kept me from transmitting my own covid anxiety to my anxious kid!
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