do college admissions get ugly at the Big3 when all the parents are Ivy grads?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stats don't really matter...when you get to the point of being considered for admissions, you have crossed whatever threshold these schools have - 1500 or 1550, 3.75 UW with the most rigorous classes taken, strong and unique ECs.

The difference in a .10 or .20 for the GPA or 20 points on the SAT aren't going to make or break. What is your story, what do you have to offer to the college's community. It isn't like everyone getting in is a 5.0, 1600 SAT applicant. So asking about their stats is really missing the point.

There are thousands more qualified applicants than there are slots available at these schools, so you have to stand out in some way, and there is no secret sauce to standing out. Just live you life and see where the chips fall.

I'd actually be fine with that kind of meritocracy, but speaking as a parent of a now college student, your post ignores a factor that these schools all use that significantly affects HS students ability to just " apply / go for it.... and let the chips fall where they may"

That is: ED also known as the time when Universities try to get a firm handle/ achieve their target numbers for both URM ( last year of Black@was def the year of the URM ) and their number of full pay who will commit by signing on ED

Those two groups take A LOT of the slots and did so in last year's admit cycle , especially when colleges were all taking a huge hit financially from the down enrollment in 2020 due to covid.

So, a very bright kid ( 1600 SAT, great EC's and also an outstanding athlete ) can't just apply regular decision to say Stanford, a couple IVy's and MIT and see what they get because if they don't go ED at the school that is offering them a guarantee then the schools fill up their slots with the kids who did or they are shut out.

To me, the escalating spending at these schools that made their budgets so high that they have to lock in full pay ED ( and consequently take a lot of unqualified legacies ) is ultimately undermining the quality of their student body and long term the quality of education that those they do admit receive.

tell me you think you're a "white, donut-hole victim" without saying so

[Anonymous]

My point is that ALL of these schools have a budget each year and the whole ED thing is their way of locking in 2 key pillars of their Budget:

1) How many Full Pay applicants are applying ED that they can count on to enroll helps them with # 2

2) How many highly qualified and truly talented kids can they admit - irregardless of their ability to pay

The yield on the former determines the schools ability to live up to the latter.

URM target numbers may be separate or cross in a Ven diagram of one or the other ( wealthy URM who may be an alum/ full pay OR low income URM - both check the box just the same )

So, take that number of spots off the table right away. If your kid then forgoes applying ED anywhere to " just go for it and let the chips fall" - then your kid is NOT in any schools first round of numbers crunching.... and they get what's left, both in terms of Offer of Admission AND FA

So, from my perspective, if these schools didn't cost 80K a year then the financial pressure that pushes them to have this ED cycle every year would not exist and then , yes, just really amazing kids could all apply for Admission at same time- need blind- and " let the chips fall"

Instead, with ED- try that and your kid might just get shut out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Legacy doesn't go that far anymore, and so what you see at the Big 3 schools is a lot of "grooming" of kids (tutoring, test prep, travel sports) to have the right profile. For Ivies that's superstar academics (top 3-4 kids in the class), or excellent stats plus recruitable athlete, or excellent stats plus URM, or excellent stats plus parents have mega-millions. I can't think of a single Ivy admit at my kid's school last year who didn't fall into one of those categories.

Do you really think there are only a small handful of kids from "big3" schools that go to Ivy's? Because that really wouldn't be close to accurate. More like 25-35% of the class, and that is before you get to NESCAC/Stanford/Chicago and other top schools.

Lol. What year are you posting from? It's not 35% of the class. And HYPS are often one each, per school.

Perhaps not 35% of the class but definitely more than 1 HYP per school. I see about 4 to 5 to Harvard, I’ve seen 8 to Penn, etc.

what school is this?

Enquiring minds want to know.
Not NCS or STA over the past 2 years as I've seen both these lists each year. It's 0-2 to each of HYPS and Penn per year.
I don't think it's GDS. They get a few Harvards each year but last year was only 2.
Is it Sidwell? Again, I don't think so.

I think your estimates are 5-10 years old.

Yes. It’s Sidwell.

How many Sidwell kids were accepted into Harvard in class 2021?

2020 was 4: 1 URM, 2 legacy, 1 plain old smart kid.

4 plain old smart kids. One is an athlete, but she literally could have picked any school in the country.

2 smart. 2 legacy.

2 smart. 2 smart and legacy,

FTFY

Why is this last point so hard for ppl to grasp? Why should anyone be shocked when the kid of highly educated parents who become highly successful adults produce smart kids? No one acts surprised when athletic parents end up with an athletic kid. Same with brains. Not all kids are as super smart as the parents, but many, many, many are. It’s genetics *and* upbringing around smart people. Oh, mom’s a tenured professor and dad’s a surgeon? And the kid is really smart? What a shock! Any achievement that kid has must be due to legacy, not ability, because where oh where would it come from?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My point is that ALL of these schools have a budget each year and the whole ED thing is their way of locking in 2 key pillars of their Budget:

1) How many Full Pay applicants are applying ED that they can count on to enroll helps them with # 2

2) How many highly qualified and truly talented kids can they admit - irregardless of their ability to pay

The yield on the former determines the schools ability to live up to the latter.

URM target numbers may be separate or cross in a Ven diagram of one or the other ( wealthy URM who may be an alum/ full pay OR low income URM - both check the box just the same )

So, take that number of spots off the table right away. If your kid then forgoes applying ED anywhere to " just go for it and let the chips fall" - then your kid is NOT in any schools first round of numbers crunching.... and they get what's left, both in terms of Offer of Admission AND FA

So, from my perspective, if these schools didn't cost 80K a year then the financial pressure that pushes them to have this ED cycle every year would not exist and then , yes, just really amazing kids could all apply for Admission at same time- need blind- and " let the chips fall"

Instead, with ED- try that and your kid might just get shut out

I don’t mean this in a snarky way, but irregardless is just not a word. It’s regardless.

[Anonymous]

PP, genetics are a little bit more of a crap shoot than that, including when it comes to intelligence

And that's Life.

Otherwise, you would not have the Tutor/ SAT prep industry livin' large in this town. Hint, it isn't the poor kids these companies were created to serve.

Some traits are recessive: Height is one. Athletic ability is a crap shoot- just ask Michael Jordan's son or the son's daughters of some of your friends.

Even level of determination is not inherited and cannot be forced- just ask all the high achieving, but frustrated with their kid's lack of achievement parents in this town.

The only thing that is pretty much consistent: money pays the bills

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP, genetics are a little bit more of a crap shoot than that, including when it comes to intelligence

And that's Life.

Otherwise, you would not have the Tutor/ SAT prep industry livin' large in this town. Hint, it isn't the poor kids these companies were created to serve.

Some traits are recessive: Height is one. Athletic ability is a crap shoot- just ask Michael Jordan's son or the son's daughters of some of your friends.

Even level of determination is not inherited and cannot be forced- just ask all the high achieving, but frustrated with their kid's lack of achievement parents in this town.

The only thing that is pretty much consistent: money pays the bills

My kids go to a school with extraordinarily accomplished parents--almost all are CEOs or senior law partners or similar with crazy impressive degrees. Their kids are all smart but mixed academically because most are on their own with school.
My husband and I are far less accomplished but our 40 hour per week jobs allow us to spend A LOT of time teaching our kids. As a result our high schoolers are now at the very top of their classes. This is mostly because we've sat down for hours and taught them
Algebra, geometry, biology, etc. Meanwhile most of my kids' peers are on their own to understand things in the evenings. Some have tutors but I don't think it can replace the sheer volume of time that some parents put in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My point is that ALL of these schools have a budget each year and the whole ED thing is their way of locking in 2 key pillars of their Budget:

1) How many Full Pay applicants are applying ED that they can count on to enroll helps them with # 2

2) How many highly qualified and truly talented kids can they admit - irregardless of their ability to pay

The yield on the former determines the schools ability to live up to the latter.

URM target numbers may be separate or cross in a Ven diagram of one or the other ( wealthy URM who may be an alum/ full pay OR low income URM - both check the box just the same )

So, take that number of spots off the table right away. If your kid then forgoes applying ED anywhere to " just go for it and let the chips fall" - then your kid is NOT in any schools first round of numbers crunching.... and they get what's left, both in terms of Offer of Admission AND FA

So, from my perspective, if these schools didn't cost 80K a year then the financial pressure that pushes them to have this ED cycle every year would not exist and then , yes, just really amazing kids could all apply for Admission at same time- need blind- and " let the chips fall"

Instead, with ED- try that and your kid might just get shut out

I don’t mean this in a snarky way, but irregardless is just not a word. It’s regardless.

In short:

Best way to get into HYP, Stanford, Duke if you have a reasonably smart kid and have the advantage of being able to Full Pay is have them apply ED- perhaps even to a school where they are a legacy because THEN your kid's application is a win/win on checking all the boxes:

* Your money ( full pay) will help them take the truly amazing kids they want 'cause they can offer them nearly full FA
* they can still honor their legacies

Don't do that- apply regular decision- and you have just squandered all your cards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

nope. sidwell parent here and no idea where to find this information. it would be interesting to see a list. so if you can tell us where to find it, that would be great.

Sidwell CCO tracks this and sends 5-year info to schools students apply to. But they don't share it with parents.

Not Quakerly? How do parents put up with this crap?

The school is small enough that you can track who went to what school and see their Naviance information by cross listing yourself. As such, to protect privacy, the school doesn't share the comprehensive lists by grade. However, each class posts informal lists, and this happens at most schools. That is where the previous information came from.

It's crazy that Sidwell doesn't publish a college destination list each year. No justification for not doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My point is that ALL of these schools have a budget each year and the whole ED thing is their way of locking in 2 key pillars of their Budget:

1) How many Full Pay applicants are applying ED that they can count on to enroll helps them with # 2

2) How many highly qualified and truly talented kids can they admit - irregardless of their ability to pay

The yield on the former determines the schools ability to live up to the latter.

URM target numbers may be separate or cross in a Ven diagram of one or the other ( wealthy URM who may be an alum/ full pay OR low income URM - both check the box just the same )

So, take that number of spots off the table right away. If your kid then forgoes applying ED anywhere to " just go for it and let the chips fall" - then your kid is NOT in any schools first round of numbers crunching.... and they get what's left, both in terms of Offer of Admission AND FA

So, from my perspective, if these schools didn't cost 80K a year then the financial pressure that pushes them to have this ED cycle every year would not exist and then , yes, just really amazing kids could all apply for Admission at same time- need blind- and " let the chips fall"

Instead, with ED- try that and your kid might just get shut out

That's the one area where going to a public school helps. Your kid can apply ED and if they don't like the aid offer keep on applying elsewhere. Public schools aren't going to care or do anything to stop them, but a big 3 certainly would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My point is that ALL of these schools have a budget each year and the whole ED thing is their way of locking in 2 key pillars of their Budget:

1) How many Full Pay applicants are applying ED that they can count on to enroll helps them with # 2

2) How many highly qualified and truly talented kids can they admit - irregardless of their ability to pay

The yield on the former determines the schools ability to live up to the latter.

URM target numbers may be separate or cross in a Ven diagram of one or the other ( wealthy URM who may be an alum/ full pay OR low income URM - both check the box just the same )

So, take that number of spots off the table right away. If your kid then forgoes applying ED anywhere to " just go for it and let the chips fall" - then your kid is NOT in any schools first round of numbers crunching.... and they get what's left, both in terms of Offer of Admission AND FA

So, from my perspective, if these schools didn't cost 80K a year then the financial pressure that pushes them to have this ED cycle every year would not exist and then , yes, just really amazing kids could all apply for Admission at same time- need blind- and " let the chips fall"

Instead, with ED- try that and your kid might just get shut out

I don’t mean this in a snarky way, but irregardless is just not a word. It’s regardless.

In short:

Best way to get into HYP, Stanford, Duke if you have a reasonably smart kid and have the advantage of being able to Full Pay is have them apply ED- perhaps even to a school where they are a legacy because THEN your kid's application is a win/win on checking all the boxes:

* Your money ( full pay) will help them take the truly amazing kids they want 'cause they can offer them nearly full FA
* they can still honor their legacies

Don't do that- apply regular decision- and you have just squandered all your cards

Except out of those schools you list, only Duke has ED. All the others are SCEA or EA.

[Anonymous]

But, PP a student can only apply ED to ONE school, so that is where they are forced to narrow their options.

Its just a shame that if you have a really bright kid with great EC's that, ultimately, their best chance is to pick ONE school and apply ED. In my opinion, so much better if these kids could just all roll the dice together on even , need blind playing field, regular Admission.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I meant Ivy in general , not Princeton specifically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

nope. sidwell parent here and no idea where to find this information. it would be interesting to see a list. so if you can tell us where to find it, that would be great.

Sidwell CCO tracks this and sends 5-year info to schools students apply to. But they don't share it with parents.

Not Quakerly? How do parents put up with this crap?

The school is small enough that you can track who went to what school and see their Naviance information by cross listing yourself. As such, to protect privacy, the school doesn't share the comprehensive lists by grade. However, each class posts informal lists, and this happens at most schools. That is where the previous information came from.

It's crazy that Sidwell doesn't publish a college destination list each year. No justification for not doing it.

Why? The publish a 4 year list. If you track it each year, you can figure it out. Why do you care where someone you don't know is going to college? That is weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

nope. sidwell parent here and no idea where to find this information. it would be interesting to see a list. so if you can tell us where to find it, that would be great.

Sidwell CCO tracks this and sends 5-year info to schools students apply to. But they don't share it with parents.

Not Quakerly? How do parents put up with this crap?

The school is small enough that you can track who went to what school and see their Naviance information by cross listing yourself. As such, to protect privacy, the school doesn't share the comprehensive lists by grade. However, each class posts informal lists, and this happens at most schools. That is where the previous information came from.

It's crazy that Sidwell doesn't publish a college destination list each year. No justification for not doing it.

Why? The publish a 4 year list. If you track it each year, you can figure it out. Why do you care where someone you don't know is going to college? That is weird.

Because a school should celebrate its graduates. Sidwell celebrates its student-athletes and provides information about where they are going to college. It's in the magazine (leaving aside the social media coverage). Why not celebrate the entire class in the magazine?

Also, I don't know why you assume that I don't know the graduates, but sophomores and juniors who actually do know these kids shouldn't need to piece together where their peer leaders and older friends are going to college from word of mouth or following Instagram accounts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

nope. sidwell parent here and no idea where to find this information. it would be interesting to see a list. so if you can tell us where to find it, that would be great.

Sidwell CCO tracks this and sends 5-year info to schools students apply to. But they don't share it with parents.

Not Quakerly? How do parents put up with this crap?

The school is small enough that you can track who went to what school and see their Naviance information by cross listing yourself. As such, to protect privacy, the school doesn't share the comprehensive lists by grade. However, each class posts informal lists, and this happens at most schools. That is where the previous information came from.

It's crazy that Sidwell doesn't publish a college destination list each year. No justification for not doing it.

Why? The publish a 4 year list. If you track it each year, you can figure it out. Why do you care where someone you don't know is going to college? That is weird.

Because a school should celebrate its graduates. Sidwell celebrates its student-athletes and provides information about where they are going to college. It's in the magazine (leaving aside the social media coverage). Why not celebrate the entire class in the magazine?

Also, I don't know why you assume that I don't know the graduates, but sophomores and juniors who actually do know these kids shouldn't need to piece together where their peer leaders and older friends are going to college from word of mouth or following Instagram accounts.

Yeah, I read last week that Kiki Rice committed to UCLA.