1st grade is a bad as we suspected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand why the kids are behind academically. But why behaviorally? (Barring a special need) Did their parents not have any behavior expectations for a year and a half?

Lots of anxiety and trauma. It's been a really hard year. I know several 8 yos who have melted down this year about other kids not wearing masks or who panicked being in a crowded situation.

Behavior expectations in a group setting are also entirely different than at home.

This sounds like kids whose parents way overdid the lockdown thing and kept their kids isolated indoors for their supposed own good. It was possible to be cautious and sensible without going to extremes. Poor kids.

NP. We let my now kindergartener play with her local cousins and did a pod with her best friend and friend's sister. By summer we let her play outdoors with neighbor kids and on the playground. We started out about in the middle in terms of cautiousness, and ended up looser than most. She still developed anxiety and is struggling this year with re-learning how to handle group social situations. In class she's great, but she's having lunchtime and playground social struggles that are very unlike her. Nothing terrible, but she definitely lost some socioemotional skills from being around the same few kids day in and day out. I know there are many kids that were home with parents or a nanny until kindergarten, but I SEE how the pandemic changed her and how her head goes to much darker places when she's stressed than it used to. We adjusted and took more risks when we saw the behavior developing, but she needed to be in school and her school was closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for subbing! We NEED you!

+1000. I don’t know why so many people are being nasty to OP.

Education begins at home. I have a niece in 1st and a nephew in 3rd. They had a father working in COVID wards and a mother WFH in a high-stress job. They were put through Kumon to supplement the poor DL and they’re perfectly fine. Other parents chose not to do this and they’re being defensive. And don’t whine to me about their privilege. Many of you have the same privilege yet you failed your kids.

Perhaps because OP was being nasty about young kids and their parents.

Some parents have really let their kids down over the last 18 months. This is an undeniable fact. Yes, DL was a disaster, but some parents tried to mitigate the disaster, others did not or made it worse by allowing and encouraging terrible behavior and learned helplessness.

FOAD. You have no clue what some parents were dealing with.

Maybe. But not most of the parents posting here.

You don’t know that, but even if you’re right, so what? Your comment wasn’t limited to only parents here.

Parents, even the ones who “we have no idea what they are dealing with” are still ultimately responsible for how their kids turn out. I’m the end, if their kid is a HS drop out or whatever, no one is going to blame the pandemic from back in K.

Yes, there could be a whole wave of kids that turn out behind from the effects of the pandemic, and it's the school system's fault for acting like 5 year-olds can do a school day on Zoom. The majority of parents were doing the best that they could, but not everyone can afford supplementing and tutoring or even has a lot of time for homeschooling.

They can stay mad and blame whoever they want, but in the in it’s THEIR kid they are punishing by not taking their own steps to remediate.

You mean virtual tutoring?

With only one school-aged DC, it was easy for me to put all his difficulties on me being a terrible parent, not knowing how to communicate things that he wasn't understanding in virtual, etc. But the more I talk to other parents, it was evident that even within the same families, some kids did better with Zoom school than others. Everyone has different personalities and learning styles. My sister, for example, elected virtual for her two ES kids even though they could have gone in person. (they're in FL). So it was a deliberate choice - she was still working, but part-time and flexible, and she was up to the task of supporting their learning. Her first grader largely did ok- easygoing kid, picks things up easily. Was already ahead of most of his peers. Her 3rd grader, on the other hand, is more high strung, doesn't pick things up as quickly, and defiant with my sister in a way she just isn't in class. Kids went back midway through the year since the outbreaks never materialized and everyone was miserable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for subbing! We NEED you!

+1000. I don’t know why so many people are being nasty to OP.

Education begins at home. I have a niece in 1st and a nephew in 3rd. They had a father working in COVID wards and a mother WFH in a high-stress job. They were put through Kumon to supplement the poor DL and they’re perfectly fine. Other parents chose not to do this and they’re being defensive. And don’t whine to me about their privilege. Many of you have the same privilege yet you failed your kids.

Perhaps because OP was being nasty about young kids and their parents.

Some parents have really let their kids down over the last 18 months. This is an undeniable fact. Yes, DL was a disaster, but some parents tried to mitigate the disaster, others did not or made it worse by allowing and encouraging terrible behavior and learned helplessness.

FOAD. You have no clue what some parents were dealing with.

Maybe. But not most of the parents posting here.

You don’t know that, but even if you’re right, so what? Your comment wasn’t limited to only parents here.

Parents, even the ones who “we have no idea what they are dealing with” are still ultimately responsible for how their kids turn out. I’m the end, if their kid is a HS drop out or whatever, no one is going to blame the pandemic from back in K.

Yes, there could be a whole wave of kids that turn out behind from the effects of the pandemic, and it's the school system's fault for acting like 5 year-olds can do a school day on Zoom. The majority of parents were doing the best that they could, but not everyone can afford supplementing and tutoring or even has a lot of time for homeschooling.

They can stay mad and blame whoever they want, but in the in it’s THEIR kid they are punishing by not taking their own steps to remediate.

You mean virtual tutoring?

With only one school-aged DC, it was easy for me to put all his difficulties on me being a terrible parent, not knowing how to communicate things that he wasn't understanding in virtual, etc. But the more I talk to other parents, it was evident that even within the same families, some kids did better with Zoom school than others. Everyone has different personalities and learning styles. My sister, for example, elected virtual for her two ES kids even though they could have gone in person. (they're in FL). So it was a deliberate choice - she was still working, but part-time and flexible, and she was up to the task of supporting their learning. Her first grader largely did ok- easygoing kid, picks things up easily. Was already ahead of most of his peers. Her 3rd grader, on the other hand, is more high strung, doesn't pick things up as quickly, and defiant with my sister in a way she just isn't in class. Kids went back midway through the year since the outbreaks never materialized and everyone was miserable.

I'm not just talking about last year, but now too. Some parents are furious at the school and seem to the think they are somehow sticking it to the school by insisting the school catch their child up without any help from the parents. In the end its the kids who suffer if the parents refuse to step up. And yes some kids will need paid professional tutoring and some kids will needs some rules and behavhioral expectations at home that they don't currently have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a huge thread on here discussing kids who got "4s" in AAP 6th grade math last year who are failing 7th grade math and completely lost. So agree: wrong.

I don’t know if that’s a good example because 7th grade in general is when the math really starts to shake out of who can truly do the advanced work or not, even before Covid.

But of all my kids and their friends, the ones who showed up, listened in class, asked for help/went to office hours, and turned in assignments, etc. they got A’s and B’s last year and are doing fine this year. We checked our kids grades regularly and made sure they turned in any missing assignments and sought help after tests and quizzes they did poorly on. But we do this anyway.

Wow, you are smug and annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The good news is that K-2 are times were lots of concepts are taught in spirals with lots of reinforcement so the kids should be able to catch up. I would be far more concerned if we were talking about the MS and HS kids, who I do think were legitimately screwed last year. Lots of those classes build on each other and catching up is far harder to do.

No one is pretending that there is an easy way to deal with what happened last year, it was a unique situation. Schools were shut because they needed to be. Could they have been opened earlier? Yup. No doubt about it in my mind but I am not a Scientist or medical expert and it wasn't my call. All I could do is make the mess work as best as I could.

What I saw, in our little circle of friends, is that very few kids parents were making their kids complete the Monday async work. The few who were only had their kids complete the must do work. DS was the only kid who was doing all the must dos and can dos. The number of people talking at the pool this summer about how they allowed their ES kid to just not do the work on Mondays or skip the sessions they didn't like was crazy. People seemed almost proud of the fact that they had stuck it to the schools by letting their kids turn off the computer or not participate.

And now they are now complaining that their kids are behind. Well, of course they are. Virtual learning sucked, especially for the younger kids. It was stupid hard and not an effective way to teach kids. The Teachers had no say over that mess and could only try to do their best to make it work. There wasn't a Teacher out there that thought that this was an effective way of teaching kids, especially early elementary. But it is where we were and what we had to work with. It was hard for everyone. Really it was. The amount of people whose response was to say screw it and not find a solution was astonishingly high.

So yeah, kids are behind this year. Kids who were in person all last year are ahead. ES kids are in the best position to make up that ground. It is going to take work but it is doable if parents choose to make it a priority and don't expect the schools to do everything.

Stop being so smug. Most of us had FT jobs and most K-2 cannot autonomously sit down and do work. So no, I was not able to make my kid do all the asynchronous work. Or even all of the live work.

And in any event ... my kid is actually not academically behind at all, except likely in writing. But he got zero feedback on his writing even when we made sure he did it, so how can that be on us? At the end of the day, the biggest loss for him was social/emotional and mental health. And there's not much I could do about that on my own. He needed to be with his peers, and he wasn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a huge thread on here discussing kids who got "4s" in AAP 6th grade math last year who are failing 7th grade math and completely lost. So agree: wrong.

I don’t know if that’s a good example because 7th grade in general is when the math really starts to shake out of who can truly do the advanced work or not, even before Covid.

But of all my kids and their friends, the ones who showed up, listened in class, asked for help/went to office hours, and turned in assignments, etc. they got A’s and B’s last year and are doing fine this year. We checked our kids grades regularly and made sure they turned in any missing assignments and sought help after tests and quizzes they did poorly on. But we do this anyway.

Wow, you are smug and annoying.

Just sharing what works since it seems so mysterious to some people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a huge thread on here discussing kids who got "4s" in AAP 6th grade math last year who are failing 7th grade math and completely lost. So agree: wrong.

I don’t know if that’s a good example because 7th grade in general is when the math really starts to shake out of who can truly do the advanced work or not, even before Covid.

But of all my kids and their friends, the ones who showed up, listened in class, asked for help/went to office hours, and turned in assignments, etc. they got A’s and B’s last year and are doing fine this year. We checked our kids grades regularly and made sure they turned in any missing assignments and sought help after tests and quizzes they did poorly on. But we do this anyway.

Wow, you are smug and annoying.

Just sharing what works since it seems so mysterious to some people.

Since this thread is about 1st graders, there's a lot that must be mysterious to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a huge thread on here discussing kids who got "4s" in AAP 6th grade math last year who are failing 7th grade math and completely lost. So agree: wrong.

I don’t know if that’s a good example because 7th grade in general is when the math really starts to shake out of who can truly do the advanced work or not, even before Covid.

But of all my kids and their friends, the ones who showed up, listened in class, asked for help/went to office hours, and turned in assignments, etc. they got A’s and B’s last year and are doing fine this year. We checked our kids grades regularly and made sure they turned in any missing assignments and sought help after tests and quizzes they did poorly on. But we do this anyway.

Wow, you are smug and annoying.

Just sharing what works since it seems so mysterious to some people.

Since this thread is about 1st graders, there's a lot that must be mysterious to you.

I was responding to a PP discussing 7th grade math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading all these comments blaming parents for not stepping in and teaching their kids, for me shows the problem with our society in a nutshell.

People really seem to have trouble with understanding others, with empathy, and frankly with plain common sense.

The way the US works right now, it is literally impossible for a large chunk of parents to parent well. They don't have the bare minimum time or money or mental capacity or skills, or some combination of the above. Then, their kids grow up and also suck as parents because they never had a chance.

And rather than seeing this fundamental truth, and saying, how can we interrupt this cycle response from so many is, "Well, I did it, so why can't they?" OR "Well, these other people overcame major poverty and trauma, why can't they?"

People who succeed as parents (in US society overall, but especially with the added stressors of COVID) are either privileged or exceptional or lucky.

There will always be people whose internal strength helps them overcome insane obstacles and thrive. But these are just a few exceptional people. Most people can't just shrug off the legacy of their own childhood trauma and become good parents. Most people can't manage two grueling jobs making $15/hour with constantly changing schedules, bad managers, and abusive customers, and then take care of groceries and bills and cleaning and childcare and find the energy to also be a teacher, oh and to do all of that without a partner.

I am UMC with a partner and pretty minor, run-of-the-mill mental health challenges, and this pandemic nearly broke me. I recognize every day that I was only able to keep things together for my now first grader because of my privilege and frankly luck (easy kid who adjusted easily to Zoom school and seems to pick everything up at school without effort). I seriously do not know how people do it without a partner, without tons of money, without totally losing their minds.

Thank you, PP. I agree 100%. This is such a depressing thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for subbing! We NEED you!

+1000. I don’t know why so many people are being nasty to OP.

Education begins at home. I have a niece in 1st and a nephew in 3rd. They had a father working in COVID wards and a mother WFH in a high-stress job. They were put through Kumon to supplement the poor DL and they’re perfectly fine. Other parents chose not to do this and they’re being defensive. And don’t whine to me about their privilege. Many of you have the same privilege yet you failed your kids.

Perhaps because OP was being nasty about young kids and their parents.

Some parents have really let their kids down over the last 18 months. This is an undeniable fact. Yes, DL was a disaster, but some parents tried to mitigate the disaster, others did not or made it worse by allowing and encouraging terrible behavior and learned helplessness.

FOAD. You have no clue what some parents were dealing with.

Maybe. But not most of the parents posting here.

You don’t know that, but even if you’re right, so what? Your comment wasn’t limited to only parents here.

Parents, even the ones who “we have no idea what they are dealing with” are still ultimately responsible for how their kids turn out. I’m the end, if their kid is a HS drop out or whatever, no one is going to blame the pandemic from back in K.

Yes, there could be a whole wave of kids that turn out behind from the effects of the pandemic, and it's the school system's fault for acting like 5 year-olds can do a school day on Zoom. The majority of parents were doing the best that they could, but not everyone can afford supplementing and tutoring or even has a lot of time for homeschooling.

They can stay mad and blame whoever they want, but in the in it’s THEIR kid they are punishing by not taking their own steps to remediate.

You mean virtual tutoring?

With only one school-aged DC, it was easy for me to put all his difficulties on me being a terrible parent, not knowing how to communicate things that he wasn't understanding in virtual, etc. But the more I talk to other parents, it was evident that even within the same families, some kids did better with Zoom school than others. Everyone has different personalities and learning styles. My sister, for example, elected virtual for her two ES kids even though they could have gone in person. (they're in FL). So it was a deliberate choice - she was still working, but part-time and flexible, and she was up to the task of supporting their learning. Her first grader largely did ok- easygoing kid, picks things up easily. Was already ahead of most of his peers. Her 3rd grader, on the other hand, is more high strung, doesn't pick things up as quickly, and defiant with my sister in a way she just isn't in class. Kids went back midway through the year since the outbreaks never materialized and everyone was miserable.

I'm not just talking about last year, but now too. Some parents are furious at the school and seem to the think they are somehow sticking it to the school by insisting the school catch their child up without any help from the parents. In the end its the kids who suffer if the parents refuse to step up. And yes some kids will need paid professional tutoring and some kids will needs some rules and behavhioral expectations at home that they don't currently have.

DP- ok, but are these parents getting at least some rudimentary instructions about HOW to catch their kids up? Not all of us have worked in education. And the school day is pretty long as it is, is adding supplementation on top of regular homework in the evening really productive?

[Anonymous]

^^ not to mention, many of the families who have kids behind may not be able to afford professional tutors. That's a very DCUM suggestion though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading all these comments blaming parents for not stepping in and teaching their kids, for me shows the problem with our society in a nutshell.

People really seem to have trouble with understanding others, with empathy, and frankly with plain common sense.

The way the US works right now, it is literally impossible for a large chunk of parents to parent well. They don't have the bare minimum time or money or mental capacity or skills, or some combination of the above. Then, their kids grow up and also suck as parents because they never had a chance.

And rather than seeing this fundamental truth, and saying, how can we interrupt this cycle response from so many is, "Well, I did it, so why can't they?" OR "Well, these other people overcame major poverty and trauma, why can't they?"

People who succeed as parents (in US society overall, but especially with the added stressors of COVID) are either privileged or exceptional or lucky.

There will always be people whose internal strength helps them overcome insane obstacles and thrive. But these are just a few exceptional people. Most people can't just shrug off the legacy of their own childhood trauma and become good parents. Most people can't manage two grueling jobs making $15/hour with constantly changing schedules, bad managers, and abusive customers, and then take care of groceries and bills and cleaning and childcare and find the energy to also be a teacher, oh and to do all of that without a partner.

I am UMC with a partner and pretty minor, run-of-the-mill mental health challenges, and this pandemic nearly broke me. I recognize every day that I was only able to keep things together for my now first grader because of my privilege and frankly luck (easy kid who adjusted easily to Zoom school and seems to pick everything up at school without effort). I seriously do not know how people do it without a partner, without tons of money, without totally losing their minds.

Thank you, PP. I agree 100%. This is such a depressing thread.

The pandemic response. Our children didn’t have to be sacrificed and neither did women’s careers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you're absolutely right, OP, and it's only going to be more obvious as time goes on. A lot of these kids missed some really crucial building blocks of education. The gap between kids who were in person or doing outside the school enrichments and kids who weren't is going to be very wide.

+1. Lucky my daughter had in person private school and therapy. I feel bad for those who were locked out of public school or didn’t look closely at the sata and succumbed to the child-covid fear mongering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading all these comments blaming parents for not stepping in and teaching their kids, for me shows the problem with our society in a nutshell.

People really seem to have trouble with understanding others, with empathy, and frankly with plain common sense.

The way the US works right now, it is literally impossible for a large chunk of parents to parent well. They don't have the bare minimum time or money or mental capacity or skills, or some combination of the above. Then, their kids grow up and also suck as parents because they never had a chance.

And rather than seeing this fundamental truth, and saying, how can we interrupt this cycle response from so many is, "Well, I did it, so why can't they?" OR "Well, these other people overcame major poverty and trauma, why can't they?"

People who succeed as parents (in US society overall, but especially with the added stressors of COVID) are either privileged or exceptional or lucky.

There will always be people whose internal strength helps them overcome insane obstacles and thrive. But these are just a few exceptional people. Most people can't just shrug off the legacy of their own childhood trauma and become good parents. Most people can't manage two grueling jobs making $15/hour with constantly changing schedules, bad managers, and abusive customers, and then take care of groceries and bills and cleaning and childcare and find the energy to also be a teacher, oh and to do all of that without a partner.

I am UMC with a partner and pretty minor, run-of-the-mill mental health challenges, and this pandemic nearly broke me. I recognize every day that I was only able to keep things together for my now first grader because of my privilege and frankly luck (easy kid who adjusted easily to Zoom school and seems to pick everything up at school without effort). I seriously do not know how people do it without a partner, without tons of money, without totally losing their minds.

Thank you, PP. I agree 100%. This is such a depressing thread.

Yes, no matter how widespread the problem, nor how well documented the overall learning loss, it is always the first instinct to blame everything on the parents (Mom!), and to continue to shortchange children. It is interesting how far apart "liberals" are in this country ("Close the schools for a year or you are a Trumper!") from democratic socialist countries (Denmark, Sweden) that prioritized in-person schools over other activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for subbing! We NEED you!

+1000. I don’t know why so many people are being nasty to OP.

Education begins at home. I have a niece in 1st and a nephew in 3rd. They had a father working in COVID wards and a mother WFH in a high-stress job. They were put through Kumon to supplement the poor DL and they’re perfectly fine. Other parents chose not to do this and they’re being defensive. And don’t whine to me about their privilege. Many of you have the same privilege yet you failed your kids.

Perhaps because OP was being nasty about young kids and their parents.

Some parents have really let their kids down over the last 18 months. This is an undeniable fact. Yes, DL was a disaster, but some parents tried to mitigate the disaster, others did not or made it worse by allowing and encouraging terrible behavior and learned helplessness.

FOAD. You have no clue what some parents were dealing with.

Maybe. But not most of the parents posting here.

You don’t know that, but even if you’re right, so what? Your comment wasn’t limited to only parents here.

Parents, even the ones who “we have no idea what they are dealing with” are still ultimately responsible for how their kids turn out. I’m the end, if their kid is a HS drop out or whatever, no one is going to blame the pandemic from back in K.

Yes, there could be a whole wave of kids that turn out behind from the effects of the pandemic, and it's the school system's fault for acting like 5 year-olds can do a school day on Zoom. The majority of parents were doing the best that they could, but not everyone can afford supplementing and tutoring or even has a lot of time for homeschooling.

They can stay mad and blame whoever they want, but in the in it’s THEIR kid they are punishing by not taking their own steps to remediate.

You mean virtual tutoring?

With only one school-aged DC, it was easy for me to put all his difficulties on me being a terrible parent, not knowing how to communicate things that he wasn't understanding in virtual, etc. But the more I talk to other parents, it was evident that even within the same families, some kids did better with Zoom school than others. Everyone has different personalities and learning styles. My sister, for example, elected virtual for her two ES kids even though they could have gone in person. (they're in FL). So it was a deliberate choice - she was still working, but part-time and flexible, and she was up to the task of supporting their learning. Her first grader largely did ok- easygoing kid, picks things up easily. Was already ahead of most of his peers. Her 3rd grader, on the other hand, is more high strung, doesn't pick things up as quickly, and defiant with my sister in a way she just isn't in class. Kids went back midway through the year since the outbreaks never materialized and everyone was miserable.

1+. It is interesting how PPs immediately assume all children (as young as 5 years!) can access and engage with online learning to an equal extent such that any difficulties with the last 1 yr+ must be attributable to parental neglect. In no other context would they be pushing the idea that somehow 4+ hours on screens were appropriate or well-suited to K-3rd education. In fact, they would argue that 4+ hours on screens *was* parental neglect...