Reasonable Expectations on Curfew/transportation/planning for rising freshman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP (but different one) here,

1. If she is in the safe residential neighborhood, within say .5 of a mile, at a friends' house at night and she is walking home alone, what time should she be back? It's not about having a curfew. It's about knowing how long it should take her to get home from wherever she is, and exactly what time she leaves where she is to set out towards home. The issue is safety.

This poster is wise talking about what matters. I spent the past few decades working in a field where I see a lot of teens who have been in catastrophic accidents. A common denominator is this. They had a curfew and they left for home late then rushed to get there on time. The real key for me is conveying the time they need to leave and making sure they understand that they need to get home safely and I am not concerned with how long that takes.

4. She is at a sleepover at a friend's house and they all decide to go out and roam the neighborhood at midnight (GPS tracking on her phone). OK or no? Absolutely not. If you get permission to go to a friend's house, you have permission to be AT THAT FRIEND'S HOUSE. If the kids want to go somewhere else, MY kids need to get permission.

This is a tough one. I think it is presumptuous to set rules in someone else's house. But, I think it's ok to agree to the sleepover with the condition that they cannot leave the house. Then if the other parent isn't onboard, they can decide your daughter shouldn't be included. I am not a fan of sleepovers at other people's houses because of this sort of issue. But, on the other hand, I allow kids who sleepover to go out skateboarding or hoverboarding after dark when they are at my house and no one has ever thought this was a problem. (For the most part I don't live in the DMV anymore and the community we are in is a fun place for that sort of activity).

Allowing kids to go skateboarding after dark when they are over for a sleepover is different. Girls roaming the neighborhood is different. The parents were likely in bed and didn't even know they left. 14 yr olds out on at midnight in the street walking around and no adult permission or even adults being aware they are gone is unsafe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 14yo DD is a rising freshman. This summer she has started going out more frequently with friends, spontaneously and with little planning, often at night. I generally support her independence, she has proven herself to be a mature and trustworthy kid, but the loosey-goosey uncertainty of things is new to me, and I'm not sure how to handle. Could use some advice. A couple questions:

1. If she is in the safe residential neighborhood, within say .5 of a mile, at a friends' house at night and she is walking home alone, what time should she be back?
2. If she is somewhere that she'll need a ride from me on a weeknight, how late should I let her stay out? (Generally, I would be in bed by 9:30)
3. If she is getting a ride home from a friend's parents, how much wiggle room should there be in the time she gets home? (We've had multiple instances where Larla's mom is going to pick them up at 10:00, but (the story goes) she doesn't show up until 10:30/10:45. I can't hold my DD accountable for another adult's punctuality, right?
4. She is at a sleepover at a friend's house and they all decide to go out and roam the neighborhood at midnight (GPS tracking on her phone). OK or no?

Basically, I'm just asking on how to set my expectations and hers, so we avoid every situation being handled as a one-off. For example, she was at a friend's house tonight and was going to walk home by X time. She calls and says that a parent can pick her up at X+15 minutes so she doesn't have to walk. That time comes and goes and she is still there. Parent hasn't shown up yet. I drive to get her.

I trust my kid. Maybe I just need to adjust to more freedom for her and realize I need to be more flexible....

For 1/3, I think the answer is some kind of communication: Please let me know what time you are planning on leaving/if that changes/actually leaving. And since I wanted to be asleep before DD came home, on nights she wanted flexible return time we had a blaring alarm clock set for midnight that she had to turn off when she got home. If I heard the alarm clock, I knew there was trouble. Alarm happened three times - the first time she forgot to text me and got grounded, the second two times she texted at 1158, 59, and 1201 saying she was fine and on her way but [valid reason she was late, such as Larla's mom]. For 4 I'd ask for a text as well, and try to make sure it's important she knows the adult at the house knows where they are.

For 2, the answer is still communication. Your daughter knows your bedtime, I'm sure. Talk to her about it - see if she can get other rides and you're the backup, not the first line of defense. If you can offer options - I can pick you up once or twice a week but I have to be able to 100% know the time I'm getting you so I can plan my night, you can have friends over here until 2 AM or sleepover, you can stay out as many nights as you want if you have other rides, etc - it might go better.

[Anonymous]

I'm a bit of an outlier on this, but even with my rising senior, I do my best to greet her when she gets home. I don't always do it but often do. That way a) I can assess whether she has been drinking or whatever, and b) she knows that I might be there to assess whatever, and c) I can hear about her evening in whatever way she wants to tell me, but it helps me just make sure everything seems fine. (She's a talker, so I never need to ask more than, 'did you have fun?' and I hear about all kinds of drama.)

I'll also say that my dd's best friend's mom does something I love. Every single time her daughter has slept over at our house, I get a text from her thanking me for having her for the night. At first I thought it was a courtesy but I came to realize that it's her way of making sure the kids aren't pulling something on us--- i.e., that her daughter is not going elsewhere and saying she's at my house.

[Anonymous]

I’d say 9 for walking home, otherwise I’d pick her up. For non school nights, I usually say 10 but I’ve let it go later for special events like birthdays, or last week they watched black widows and couldn’t start until 8:30 because of someone’s summer school schedule so pickup was more like 10:30.

If the other parent is picking up, I’d send a quick text saying “Hi, larla said you could pick up Marla and her at Joe’s tonight at 10. Is that okay? I’ll get next time (or could pick them both up tonight if that’s better for you). Thanks!” I think sometimes the situation is that Marla doesn’t actually text her mom until 10 saying “can you pick us up now???” and then mom is in the middle of something and can’t leave until 10:05, so doesn’t get there until 10:15….that’s how teens roll.

I would be very unhappy with parents letting the kids wander the neighborhood at midnight during a sleepover. Bad shit happens in parks after dark. The only time we did this as kids it was when a friend had a big blowout with her mom about not letting us go to a midnight movie showing and she wanted to walk it off. And boy did we get in trouble. After dark, teens should be at a defined location—ice cream shop, friend’s house, movie theater, etc. Well lit and populated.

Also, I would never go to bed if my teen is still out. If she’s out, I’m up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My 14yo DD is a rising freshman. This summer she has started going out more frequently with friends, spontaneously and with little planning, often at night. I generally support her independence, she has proven herself to be a mature and trustworthy kid, but the loosey-goosey uncertainty of things is new to me, and I'm not sure how to handle. Could use some advice. A couple questions:

1. If she is in the safe residential neighborhood, within say .5 of a mile, at a friends' house at night and she is walking home alone, what time should she be back?
2. If she is somewhere that she'll need a ride from me on a weeknight, how late should I let her stay out? (Generally, I would be in bed by 9:30)
3. If she is getting a ride home from a friend's parents, how much wiggle room should there be in the time she gets home? (We've had multiple instances where Larla's mom is going to pick them up at 10:00, but (the story goes) she doesn't show up until 10:30/10:45. I can't hold my DD accountable for another adult's punctuality, right?
4. She is at a sleepover at a friend's house and they all decide to go out and roam the neighborhood at midnight (GPS tracking on her phone). OK or no?

Basically, I'm just asking on how to set my expectations and hers, so we avoid every situation being handled as a one-off. For example, she was at a friend's house tonight and was going to walk home by X time. She calls and says that a parent can pick her up at X+15 minutes so she doesn't have to walk. That time comes and goes and she is still there. Parent hasn't shown up yet. I drive to get her.

I trust my kid. Maybe I just need to adjust to more freedom for her and realize I need to be more flexible....

Case-by-case basis depending on the who, when, and where. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Our schedule varies all the time. Why should hers be different?? I give her expectations for her behavior and what is "right or wrong." But we don't set rules on curfew/timing that are inflexible. I don't find that useful. I get that others do. But, that is not how we approach it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 14yo DD is a rising freshman. This summer she has started going out more frequently with friends, spontaneously and with little planning, often at night. I generally support her independence, she has proven herself to be a mature and trustworthy kid, but the loosey-goosey uncertainty of things is new to me, and I'm not sure how to handle. Could use some advice. A couple questions:

1. If she is in the safe residential neighborhood, within say .5 of a mile, at a friends' house at night and she is walking home alone, what time should she be back?
2. If she is somewhere that she'll need a ride from me on a weeknight, how late should I let her stay out? (Generally, I would be in bed by 9:30)
3. If she is getting a ride home from a friend's parents, how much wiggle room should there be in the time she gets home? (We've had multiple instances where Larla's mom is going to pick them up at 10:00, but (the story goes) she doesn't show up until 10:30/10:45. I can't hold my DD accountable for another adult's punctuality, right?
4. She is at a sleepover at a friend's house and they all decide to go out and roam the neighborhood at midnight (GPS tracking on her phone). OK or no?

Basically, I'm just asking on how to set my expectations and hers, so we avoid every situation being handled as a one-off. For example, she was at a friend's house tonight and was going to walk home by X time. She calls and says that a parent can pick her up at X+15 minutes so she doesn't have to walk. That time comes and goes and she is still there. Parent hasn't shown up yet. I drive to get her.

I trust my kid. Maybe I just need to adjust to more freedom for her and realize I need to be more flexible....

Case-by-case basis depending on the who, when, and where. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Our schedule varies all the time. Why should hers be different?? I give her expectations for her behavior and what is "right or wrong." But we don't set rules on curfew/timing that are inflexible. I don't find that useful. I get that others do. But, that is not how we approach it.

PP Here to add: roaming at night is a hard no. (FWIW, I did just that as a teen. No phone to track me. Nothing good comes of that.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am dealing with the same sort of issues. This is my third child, but my first two didn't stay out until they could drive so I was lucky to avoid this stage. Here is where I come down on things:

1. If she is in the safe residential neighborhood, within say .5 of a mile, at a friends' house at night and she is walking home alone, what time should she be back? It's summertime. By dark. I can give a little leeway, but does my daughter really need to be walking home after 9 pm? I think not.
2. If she is somewhere that she'll need a ride from me on a weeknight, how late should I let her stay out? (Generally, I would be in bed by 9:30). By my bedtime. Everyone owes everyone else consideration. I am happy to pick up and drop off my kids, but I have a real job that pays for our real lifestyle.
3. If she is getting a ride home from a friend's parents, how much wiggle room should there be in the time she gets home? (We've had multiple instances where Larla's mom is going to pick them up at 10:00, but (the story goes) she doesn't show up until 10:30/10:45. I can't hold my DD accountable for another adult's punctuality, right? You have no say and you can't hold her responsible at all. You can either pick her up or agree to another family dropping her off and that is the end of your choices.
4. She is at a sleepover at a friend's house and they all decide to go out and roam the neighborhood at midnight (GPS tracking on her phone). OK or no? At a sleepover, it's up to the parents. Your decision is whether you trust their judgment and allow her to attend. Honestly, if they are not getting in trouble and are in a group in a safe neighborhood, sounds like some harmless fun.

I am grappling with these issues living in a summer vacation community. It's never quiet here, but it's safe. Any my DD is not walking but driving a golf cart. These are my limits.

Appreciate this! Thank you.

On the 9:00 suggestion, one thing I struggle with is how I really want her spending her time. If she is home by 9:00, she isn't sleeping. She is in her room on her phone, or watching television, or if I'm really lucky reading a book until 11:00 or later. I would actually rather her be chatting with friends or playing games or whatever for that time. Something feels wrong about requiring her to be home to do that instead of encouraging the social interaction.

This is hard.

If we are talking about when school is in session, no electronics on after 9pm - problem solved. I say this for a HS freshman (I have one too). I'd make allowances if they are fulfilling home obligations and all schoolwork is getting done, but I'd rather start strict and relax than having to try to rein in behavior I have allowed.

I realize I am an old, but when I was in HS weeknights were considered school nights and there just wasn't any discussion of going out with friends just to hang out. School activities or my part-time job were an exception.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am dealing with the same sort of issues. This is my third child, but my first two didn't stay out until they could drive so I was lucky to avoid this stage. Here is where I come down on things:

1. If she is in the safe residential neighborhood, within say .5 of a mile, at a friends' house at night and she is walking home alone, what time should she be back? It's summertime. By dark. I can give a little leeway, but does my daughter really need to be walking home after 9 pm? I think not.
2. If she is somewhere that she'll need a ride from me on a weeknight, how late should I let her stay out? (Generally, I would be in bed by 9:30). By my bedtime. Everyone owes everyone else consideration. I am happy to pick up and drop off my kids, but I have a real job that pays for our real lifestyle.
3. If she is getting a ride home from a friend's parents, how much wiggle room should there be in the time she gets home? (We've had multiple instances where Larla's mom is going to pick them up at 10:00, but (the story goes) she doesn't show up until 10:30/10:45. I can't hold my DD accountable for another adult's punctuality, right? You have no say and you can't hold her responsible at all. You can either pick her up or agree to another family dropping her off and that is the end of your choices.
4. She is at a sleepover at a friend's house and they all decide to go out and roam the neighborhood at midnight (GPS tracking on her phone). OK or no? At a sleepover, it's up to the parents. Your decision is whether you trust their judgment and allow her to attend. Honestly, if they are not getting in trouble and are in a group in a safe neighborhood, sounds like some harmless fun.

I am grappling with these issues living in a summer vacation community. It's never quiet here, but it's safe. Any my DD is not walking but driving a golf cart. These are my limits.

Appreciate this! Thank you.

On the 9:00 suggestion, one thing I struggle with is how I really want her spending her time. If she is home by 9:00, she isn't sleeping. She is in her room on her phone, or watching television, or if I'm really lucky reading a book until 11:00 or later. I would actually rather her be chatting with friends or playing games or whatever for that time. Something feels wrong about requiring her to be home to do that instead of encouraging the social interaction.

This is hard.

If we are talking about when school is in session, no electronics on after 9pm - problem solved. I say this for a HS freshman (I have one too). I'd make allowances if they are fulfilling home obligations and all schoolwork is getting done, but I'd rather start strict and relax than having to try to rein in behavior I have allowed.

I realize I am an old, but when I was in HS weeknights were considered school nights and there just wasn't any discussion of going out with friends just to hang out. School activities or my part-time job were an exception.

OP here. We have exactly that rule on school nights, so I agree with you. I am talking about summer though, which I see as a bit different...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am dealing with the same sort of issues. This is my third child, but my first two didn't stay out until they could drive so I was lucky to avoid this stage. Here is where I come down on things:

1. If she is in the safe residential neighborhood, within say .5 of a mile, at a friends' house at night and she is walking home alone, what time should she be back? It's summertime. By dark. I can give a little leeway, but does my daughter really need to be walking home after 9 pm? I think not.
2. If she is somewhere that she'll need a ride from me on a weeknight, how late should I let her stay out? (Generally, I would be in bed by 9:30). By my bedtime. Everyone owes everyone else consideration. I am happy to pick up and drop off my kids, but I have a real job that pays for our real lifestyle.
3. If she is getting a ride home from a friend's parents, how much wiggle room should there be in the time she gets home? (We've had multiple instances where Larla's mom is going to pick them up at 10:00, but (the story goes) she doesn't show up until 10:30/10:45. I can't hold my DD accountable for another adult's punctuality, right? You have no say and you can't hold her responsible at all. You can either pick her up or agree to another family dropping her off and that is the end of your choices.
4. She is at a sleepover at a friend's house and they all decide to go out and roam the neighborhood at midnight (GPS tracking on her phone). OK or no? At a sleepover, it's up to the parents. Your decision is whether you trust their judgment and allow her to attend. Honestly, if they are not getting in trouble and are in a group in a safe neighborhood, sounds like some harmless fun.

I am grappling with these issues living in a summer vacation community. It's never quiet here, but it's safe. Any my DD is not walking but driving a golf cart. These are my limits.

Appreciate this! Thank you.

On the 9:00 suggestion, one thing I struggle with is how I really want her spending her time. If she is home by 9:00, she isn't sleeping. She is in her room on her phone, or watching television, or if I'm really lucky reading a book until 11:00 or later. I would actually rather her be chatting with friends or playing games or whatever for that time. Something feels wrong about requiring her to be home to do that instead of encouraging the social interaction.

This is hard.

If we are talking about when school is in session, no electronics on after 9pm - problem solved. I say this for a HS freshman (I have one too). I'd make allowances if they are fulfilling home obligations and all schoolwork is getting done, but I'd rather start strict and relax than having to try to rein in behavior I have allowed.

I realize I am an old, but when I was in HS weeknights were considered school nights and there just wasn't any discussion of going out with friends just to hang out. School activities or my part-time job were an exception.

OP here. We have exactly that rule on school nights, so I agree with you. I am talking about summer though, which I see as a bit different...

PP here - yes, I agree. My daughter isn't out at night that much, but I'm flexible. I don't usually go to bed at 9:30, but I still think that's a reasonable time for them to be home on a summer weeknight unless they are going to a movie or some other activity. I mean, they are 14 - they have four more years to hang out and grow up.

[Anonymous]

I found strict curfews to be infuriating as a teen. If the girls want to watch a long movie that would finish at 9:15, are you really going to enforce a 9 PM curfew? My mom was always willing to allow some flexibility if she knew what we were up to. An Oscar watch party or movie night was totally fine. Wandering the neighborhood was not. Other parents were super strict with timed cutoffs, which I think encouraged rebelling and lying and demonstrated a lack of trust in the teen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found strict curfews to be infuriating as a teen. If the girls want to watch a long movie that would finish at 9:15, are you really going to enforce a 9 PM curfew? My mom was always willing to allow some flexibility if she knew what we were up to. An Oscar watch party or movie night was totally fine. Wandering the neighborhood was not. Other parents were super strict with timed cutoffs, which I think encouraged rebelling and lying and demonstrated a lack of trust in the teen.

I agree with this. I did not have a curfew growing up, as long as my mom knew where I was. For example, if we agreed that I'd be home at 9:30 but called her during the evening to say I'd be home at 10 instead, she was fine with that. If I didn't call, then she'd be worried sick about me, so as long as I kept in touch, she was fine. I appreciated that she trusted me, and I was responsible. On the other hand, I knew a girl who had a STRICT curfew - grounded if she came home a few minutes late. She was always lying about where she was (sleepover at Jane's!) while having sex with her boyfriend. As far as I can tell, we are both responsible adults, but I was always honest with my parents about my whereabouts.

In any case, I have a rising 9th grade son, and he does not have a set time to come home. He is often at a neighbor friend's house until 10 o'clock. He's a night-owl, though, and so am I, so it's all good, as long as he answers the phone or text when I call. I'm fine with whatever time he comes home, as long as I know where he is and what he is doing. I also have 16 and 19 year old girls. Neither has ever had a curfew. Same rules apply - let me know where you are (I also have them on find friends on the iphone). If it's getting late, I text and ask when they expect to be coming home. If it's really late (like 1 AM for 19 year old), I will tell her to please be home by 1:30 AM, etc. She's really good about keeping in contact, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I found strict curfews to be infuriating as a teen. If the girls want to watch a long movie that would finish at 9:15, are you really going to enforce a 9 PM curfew? My mom was always willing to allow some flexibility if she knew what we were up to. An Oscar watch party or movie night was totally fine. Wandering the neighborhood was not. Other parents were super strict with timed cutoffs, which I think encouraged rebelling and lying and demonstrated a lack of trust in the teen.

I agree with this. I did not have a curfew growing up, as long as my mom knew where I was. For example, if we agreed that I'd be home at 9:30 but called her during the evening to say I'd be home at 10 instead, she was fine with that. If I didn't call, then she'd be worried sick about me, so as long as I kept in touch, she was fine. I appreciated that she trusted me, and I was responsible. On the other hand, I knew a girl who had a STRICT curfew - grounded if she came home a few minutes late. She was always lying about where she was (sleepover at Jane's!) while having sex with her boyfriend. As far as I can tell, we are both responsible adults, but I was always honest with my parents about my whereabouts.

In any case, I have a rising 9th grade son, and he does not have a set time to come home. He is often at a neighbor friend's house until 10 o'clock. He's a night-owl, though, and so am I, so it's all good, as long as he answers the phone or text when I call. I'm fine with whatever time he comes home, as long as I know where he is and what he is doing. I also have 16 and 19 year old girls. Neither has ever had a curfew. Same rules apply - let me know where you are (I also have them on find friends on the iphone). If it's getting late, I text and ask when they expect to be coming home. If it's really late (like 1 AM for 19 year old), I will tell her to please be home by 1:30 AM, etc. She's really good about keeping in contact, though.

OP here. These are both helpful perspectives. Thank you.

I agree that strict blanket curfews can backfire. I wouldn't, for example, ground her for being ten minutes past curfew. But I am not a night owl, and do need some level of certainty on when to expect her home. In your bolded example, you had an agreement up front of 9:30. Did it generally stick, like 80% of the time? That is what I'm hoping for....

[Anonymous]

I don't walk around in my neighborhood without my dog after dark and it is "safe" and I am mid-40s. Young women are the most vulnerable in life from about 12-22. I wouldn't be encouraging walking home in the dark for anyone in that age range. It is sad but the reality of life. The roaming around at midnight is bizarre. Hang in the back yard if you must.

Weeknights--this is just in the summer, right? 9 or 9:30 seems reasonable if that's when you like to get to bed.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the PP that roaming the streets at midnight isn't cool. In addition to all the other issues mentioned, I would be afraid that the police would be called by some nosey neighbor and that things would get out of control.
I might sound paranoid but there have been enough police shootings in the US that it worries me.

[Anonymous]

1. 8:30-9 for our neighborhood since there are not sidewalks and that’s when it’s getting dark.
2. Depends on how late I’m willing to go out. Some nights it may be 10. Other nights I don’t want to go out past 8 for whatever reason.
3. I’m okay with 10-11 if I’m not driving and I know where she is.
4. A one time thing or regular? It really depends. Have an open conversation. Forbid it and she will learn quickly to leave the phone in the house or open a vpn so she can’t be tracked. You won’t know.