Family of six killed by depressed and suicidal 19-year-old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Or, perhaps you are only aware of garden variety depression and unaware that 20% of people with depression suffer from psychosis. It’s well established. I encourage you to do some research and reading - there are lots of reputable sources readily searchable online.

And yes, psychosis leads to violent behavior in some patients. Including a delusional belief that killing your whole family is better than just killing yourself because leaving them to suffer would be worse than killing them and taking them with you.

I am very familiar with psychotic depression and the note simply does not suggest that’s what is going on here nor does the fact that two people were involved. Patients with psychotic depression generally aren’t bragging about their social life nor bemoaning past calculus quizzes. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very disturbed young man simply that depression (which he may have also had) does not begin to explain this tragic event.

[Anonymous]

(contd)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, perhaps you are only aware of garden variety depression and unaware that 20% of people with depression suffer from psychosis. It’s well established. I encourage you to do some research and reading - there are lots of reputable sources readily searchable online.

And yes, psychosis leads to violent behavior in some patients. Including a delusional belief that killing your whole family is better than just killing yourself because leaving them to suffer would be worse than killing them and taking them with you.

I am very familiar with psychotic depression and the note simply does not suggest that’s what is going on here nor does the fact that two people were involved. Patients with psychotic depression generally aren’t bragging about their social life nor bemoaning past calculus quizzes. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very disturbed young man simply that depression (which he may have also had) does not begin to explain this tragic event.

You know he addresses this comment in his text right? People who didn't believe he had actual, systematic depression.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a terrible, sad story and I feel awful for everyone involved, especially their surviving family who must be in such turmoil right now. My heart goes out to them.

Gun control IS a joke.

The thread title makes it sound like depression/suicidal ideation caused this awful event and that's not accurate at all. There is already so much stigma around mental illness, I feel like I must note: depression doesn't make you kill people. And the greatest threat of suicidal ideation is to the person who has it. There are lots of things happening in this story and likely we still don't know what sequence of events led to this terrible outcome. But it wasn't "depression". Please do not further stigmatize people with depression, who already struggle so much and need love, support, and understanding. Not unfounded fear.

Thank you. This is important. There is more going on here than depression.

Did you read his suicide note? What else would you call it?

A raging personality disorder

Yup. Not depression. A personality disorder. I know he was young but damn do I feel rage reading that note excerpt. Those young men robbed their parents, sister and grandmother of everything.

There is nothing in that note that qualifies anyone to diagnose a personality disorder over depressive psychosis. Stop pretending you have the qualifications to make that call. I’m sorry that family annihilation scares you - it’s rational that it should - but it doesn’t give you license to diagnose someone.

Hello, welcome to the internet where people speculate about things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, perhaps you are only aware of garden variety depression and unaware that 20% of people with depression suffer from psychosis. It’s well established. I encourage you to do some research and reading - there are lots of reputable sources readily searchable online.

And yes, psychosis leads to violent behavior in some patients. Including a delusional belief that killing your whole family is better than just killing yourself because leaving them to suffer would be worse than killing them and taking them with you.

I am very familiar with psychotic depression and the note simply does not suggest that’s what is going on here nor does the fact that two people were involved. Patients with psychotic depression generally aren’t bragging about their social life nor bemoaning past calculus quizzes. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very disturbed young man simply that depression (which he may have also had) does not begin to explain this tragic event.

You know he addresses this comment in his text right? People who didn't believe he had actual, systematic depression.

And he was clearly a sensible individual! This is life an abisive man talking about what his wife drove him to.

[Anonymous]

He sounds like he was really smart but wasn't thriving were he was. Why attend a college that doesn't fit you? He sat at home for a year and did nothing...but expected things to magically change?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, perhaps you are only aware of garden variety depression and unaware that 20% of people with depression suffer from psychosis. It’s well established. I encourage you to do some research and reading - there are lots of reputable sources readily searchable online.

And yes, psychosis leads to violent behavior in some patients. Including a delusional belief that killing your whole family is better than just killing yourself because leaving them to suffer would be worse than killing them and taking them with you.

I am very familiar with psychotic depression and the note simply does not suggest that’s what is going on here nor does the fact that two people were involved. Patients with psychotic depression generally aren’t bragging about their social life nor bemoaning past calculus quizzes. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very disturbed young man simply that depression (which he may have also had) does not begin to explain this tragic event.

You know he addresses this comment in his text right? People who didn't believe he had actual, systematic depression.

And he was clearly a sensible individual! This is life an abisive man talking about what his wife drove him to.

He wasn't married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, perhaps you are only aware of garden variety depression and unaware that 20% of people with depression suffer from psychosis. It’s well established. I encourage you to do some research and reading - there are lots of reputable sources readily searchable online.

And yes, psychosis leads to violent behavior in some patients. Including a delusional belief that killing your whole family is better than just killing yourself because leaving them to suffer would be worse than killing them and taking them with you.

I am very familiar with psychotic depression and the note simply does not suggest that’s what is going on here nor does the fact that two people were involved. Patients with psychotic depression generally aren’t bragging about their social life nor bemoaning past calculus quizzes. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very disturbed young man simply that depression (which he may have also had) does not begin to explain this tragic event.

You know he addresses this comment in his text right? People who didn't believe he had actual, systematic depression.

Look, I don’t know what to tell you. He may have met criteria for mdd in addition to his other issues. Lots of pedophiles are depressed too but that doesn’t mean major depressive disorder explains their behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, perhaps you are only aware of garden variety depression and unaware that 20% of people with depression suffer from psychosis. It’s well established. I encourage you to do some research and reading - there are lots of reputable sources readily searchable online.

And yes, psychosis leads to violent behavior in some patients. Including a delusional belief that killing your whole family is better than just killing yourself because leaving them to suffer would be worse than killing them and taking them with you.

I am very familiar with psychotic depression and the note simply does not suggest that’s what is going on here nor does the fact that two people were involved. Patients with psychotic depression generally aren’t bragging about their social life nor bemoaning past calculus quizzes. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very disturbed young man simply that depression (which he may have also had) does not begin to explain this tragic event.

You’re unqualified to make that call. The reason I know you’re unqualified to make that call is because you’re making it. No responsible mental health professional would ever do so based on the very truncated body of evidence you have in front of you.

People with depression have killed other people. You are essentially stating that it is impossible for depression alone to result in homicide. I don’t know whether you struggle with it yourself, your spouse or child or other loved one does or what else is the basis for your fear that is compelling you to make such a blanket and entirely unsupported claim, but it’s just that. It’s not a rational declaration because it ignores a massive body of research on the links between mental illness and violence.

I am trying to be respectful in engaging with you, but your arrogance in making such sweeping statements is shameful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a terrible, sad story and I feel awful for everyone involved, especially their surviving family who must be in such turmoil right now. My heart goes out to them.

Gun control IS a joke.

The thread title makes it sound like depression/suicidal ideation caused this awful event and that's not accurate at all. There is already so much stigma around mental illness, I feel like I must note: depression doesn't make you kill people. And the greatest threat of suicidal ideation is to the person who has it. There are lots of things happening in this story and likely we still don't know what sequence of events led to this terrible outcome. But it wasn't "depression". Please do not further stigmatize people with depression, who already struggle so much and need love, support, and understanding. Not unfounded fear.

Thank you. This is important. There is more going on here than depression.

Did you read his suicide note? What else would you call it?

A raging personality disorder

Yup. Not depression. A personality disorder. I know he was young but damn do I feel rage reading that note excerpt. Those young men robbed their parents, sister and grandmother of everything.

There is nothing in that note that qualifies anyone to diagnose a personality disorder over depressive psychosis. Stop pretending you have the qualifications to make that call. I’m sorry that family annihilation scares you - it’s rational that it should - but it doesn’t give you license to diagnose someone.

STFU. You’re not a shrink, I don’t care about the shrill lies that will now ensue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a terrible, sad story and I feel awful for everyone involved, especially their surviving family who must be in such turmoil right now. My heart goes out to them.

Gun control IS a joke.

The thread title makes it sound like depression/suicidal ideation caused this awful event and that's not accurate at all. There is already so much stigma around mental illness, I feel like I must note: depression doesn't make you kill people. And the greatest threat of suicidal ideation is to the person who has it. There are lots of things happening in this story and likely we still don't know what sequence of events led to this terrible outcome. But it wasn't "depression". Please do not further stigmatize people with depression, who already struggle so much and need love, support, and understanding. Not unfounded fear.

I understand what you’re trying to do here, but it’s misguided. Please understand that I comment from the position of someone who has suffered mental illness for 40+ years. And someone who has spent more than half that time working in the criminal justice system with adults and juveniles and who has read voluminously in the research on the links between mental illness and violent crime.

It’s both naive and wrong to state that there isn’t a correlation between the two, and in many cases causation. It doesn’t help mentally ill people to deny that reality. The stigma of mental illness in our society is awful, but pretending the horrors of mental illness don’t exist does nothing to tear down that stigma. It creates a cognitive dissonance that people will recoil from.

And the fact is - something we should all be able to grasp with little struggle - many policy makers are far from altruistic and won’t be convinced to finance and back expanded mental health resources on the basis that it will help some people who suffer mental illness. Sell it as a means to reduce violent crime and you’ve got a much easier sale.

Mentally ill people experiencing unstable illness (untreated) kill themselves, kill their children, kill their parents, kill strangers, commit violence assaults, etc. The rate at which this happens varies depending on the research you look at, but the fact that it happens and is not by any means anomalous is undisputed among the professionals who study this issue and treat the afflicted. It doesn’t help anyone to pretend this isn’t so.

This is a clear example of confirmation bias. Of course you are going to see a lot of violent tendencies in the incarcerated population--they're incarcerated for a reason. What you fail to grasp is that 40% of people experience a mental illness during their lifetime, and more than 99% of them are not violent toward themselves or others.

[Anonymous]

I’m glad his suite mates informed the college and were safe from him. I’m so sorry about the innocent members of his family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Or, perhaps you are only aware of garden variety depression and unaware that 20% of people with depression suffer from psychosis. It’s well established. I encourage you to do some research and reading - there are lots of reputable sources readily searchable online.

And yes, psychosis leads to violent behavior in some patients. Including a delusional belief that killing your whole family is better than just killing yourself because leaving them to suffer would be worse than killing them and taking them with you.

I am very familiar with psychotic depression and the note simply does not suggest that’s what is going on here nor does the fact that two people were involved. Patients with psychotic depression generally aren’t bragging about their social life nor bemoaning past calculus quizzes. I’m not saying he wasn’t a very disturbed young man simply that depression (which he may have also had) does not begin to explain this tragic event.

You’re unqualified to make that call. The reason I know you’re unqualified to make that call is because you’re making it. No responsible mental health professional would ever do so based on the very truncated body of evidence you have in front of you.

People with depression have killed other people. You are essentially stating that it is impossible for depression alone to result in homicide. I don’t know whether you struggle with it yourself, your spouse or child or other loved one does or what else is the basis for your fear that is compelling you to make such a blanket and entirely unsupported claim, but it’s just that. It’s not a rational declaration because it ignores a massive body of research on the links between mental illness and violence.

I am trying to be respectful in engaging with you, but your arrogance in making such sweeping statements is shameful.

NP. You are cherry picking data to suit your narrative and it's incredibly harmful. People with diabetes kill other people, that doesn't mean it's causal.

[Anonymous]

Men, especially young men, who communicate that level of contempt to others in the guise that they only think logically are almost always dangerous. Jesus.

[Anonymous]

How terribly sad and unnecessary.