Family of six killed by depressed and suicidal 19-year-old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're confusing DCUM with Congress. Also, you sound kinda nutty yourself.

You’re contemptible.

You're oddly and inappropriately contemptuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're confusing DCUM with Congress. Also, you sound kinda nutty yourself.

You’re contemptible.

You're oddly and inappropriately contemptuous.

DP and you’re being a snide jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you're confusing DCUM with Congress. Also, you sound kinda nutty yourself.

You’re contemptible.

You're oddly and inappropriately contemptuous.

DP and you’re being a snide jerk.

Let me say it another way. That poster sounds stark raving mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the note text that has been posted so far, he sounds like a psychopath.

The correct term is sociopath. This guy is undeniably a sociopath--he gets very little sympathy from me. Anyone with that level of detached planning to murder his own family (who he admits tried to help him!) is probably also a skilled liar. I don't believe he cut himself with an intention to kill himself but rather to get attention--which he did.

This kid is a monster. He should be jailed for the rest of his life in a facility that also provides counseling (which so jails do have, btw). He does sound like stone cold incel without the overt hatred of women part--as someone stated upthread. It's horrific.

First of all, he can’t be jailed because HE’S DEAD.

Secondly, you are obviously ill informed about mental illness because you can’t diagnose someone from one letter. He could have suffered from depressive psychosis, which afflicts 1 in 5 people with depression and can lead to suicide AND homicide.

I can’t tell if the people posting all this garbage/spurious diagnoses on this thread are just terrified of mental illness, or are just willfully ignorant asses. There is actual research done - voluminous research - on the links between unstable mental illness and violence. A person can kill others while mentally ill and not be a sociopath.

Honestly it’s incredibly disheartening to read some of these posts. YOU folks are the ones putting people with mental illness into a box and labeling them MONSTERS, not me. A serious discussion about the reasons why mental illness results in violent acts is what is warranted here, not this dismissing these young men as monsters and washing your hands of it. That kind of attitude is what gets us a broken mental healthcare system like the one we currently have. Many of you seem only to want to acknowledge clinical depression that is ‘garden variety’ MDD or PPD and not to acknowledge the extremes that DO exist and in far more than ‘less than one percent’ of cases. Minimizing the potential for aberrant behavior is how we end up with incidents like this and like Adam Lanza and dozens of other mass shooters with known mental illness that have come before. You can’t just call them all sociopaths because they simply weren’t.

These guys are basically less sexually explicit incels. Yes, they are disturbed just as all incel murderers are. Yes, it’s absolutely different than a schizophrenic or otherwise psychotic person committing an act of violence. There is no compelling indication he was psychotic and regardless, two of them planned this together. Spare me the lecture not to diagnose because I am talking on an anon message board not submitting a forensic eval.

+1 I'm first PP and this is exactly it. I am very supportive and informed about the many facets of mental illness. I will always give an individual the benefit of the doubt and lean in favor of mental illness. But this was just delusions-of-grandeur-incel style murder. The utter arrogance of this little f*cker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the note text that has been posted so far, he sounds like a psychopath.

The correct term is sociopath. This guy is undeniably a sociopath--he gets very little sympathy from me. Anyone with that level of detached planning to murder his own family (who he admits tried to help him!) is probably also a skilled liar. I don't believe he cut himself with an intention to kill himself but rather to get attention--which he did.

This kid is a monster. He should be jailed for the rest of his life in a facility that also provides counseling (which so jails do have, btw). He does sound like stone cold incel without the overt hatred of women part--as someone stated upthread. It's horrific.

What do you think is the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath?

The overwhelming majority of cutting has nothing to do with suicidal ideation.

The designation of psychopath is no longer used in psychiatric parlance. The correct term is sociopath. The former has no legal or medical usage at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the note text that has been posted so far, he sounds like a psychopath.

The correct term is sociopath. This guy is undeniably a sociopath--he gets very little sympathy from me. Anyone with that level of detached planning to murder his own family (who he admits tried to help him!) is probably also a skilled liar. I don't believe he cut himself with an intention to kill himself but rather to get attention--which he did.

This kid is a monster. He should be jailed for the rest of his life in a facility that also provides counseling (which so jails do have, btw). He does sound like stone cold incel without the overt hatred of women part--as someone stated upthread. It's horrific.

What do you think is the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath?

The overwhelming majority of cutting has nothing to do with suicidal ideation.

The designation of psychopath is no longer used in psychiatric parlance. The correct term is sociopath. The former has no legal or medical usage at all.

Correct according to whom? The DSM doesn’t use “sociopath” either. Its term is “antisocial personality disorder.” Regardless, I think “psychopath” gets the job done here pretty well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question - could the parents have had him involuntarily committed as an adult once he was kicked out of dorm?
He even said his family tried so many ways to help him.
What can we, as a society, do about people like this?

Involuntary holds are only if you're a serious threat to yourself or others. Doesn't sound like he did any of that until this week. Even then the holds are only a few weeks.

The longest you can legally hold anyone involuntarily is 72 hours. It's a nightmare for parents with violent mentally ill children.

F*ck Ronald Reagan for many things including he dismantled an admittedly dysfunctional state mental structure in this country with no back up plan for how to handle any of this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question - could the parents have had him involuntarily committed as an adult once he was kicked out of dorm?
He even said his family tried so many ways to help him.
What can we, as a society, do about people like this?

Involuntary holds are only if you're a serious threat to yourself or others. Doesn't sound like he did any of that until this week. Even then the holds are only a few weeks.

The longest you can legally hold anyone involuntarily is 72 hours. It's a nightmare for parents with violent mentally ill children.

F*ck Ronald Reagan for many things including he dismantled an admittedly dysfunctional state mental structure in this country with no back up plan for how to handle any of this.

The blame on this starts with Kennedy, sadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the note text that has been posted so far, he sounds like a psychopath.

The correct term is sociopath. This guy is undeniably a sociopath--he gets very little sympathy from me. Anyone with that level of detached planning to murder his own family (who he admits tried to help him!) is probably also a skilled liar. I don't believe he cut himself with an intention to kill himself but rather to get attention--which he did.

This kid is a monster. He should be jailed for the rest of his life in a facility that also provides counseling (which so jails do have, btw). He does sound like stone cold incel without the overt hatred of women part--as someone stated upthread. It's horrific.

What do you think is the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath?

The overwhelming majority of cutting has nothing to do with suicidal ideation.

The designation of psychopath is no longer used in psychiatric parlance. The correct term is sociopath. The former has no legal or medical usage at all.

Correct according to whom? The DSM doesn’t use “sociopath” either. Its term is “antisocial personality disorder.” Regardless, I think “psychopath” gets the job done here pretty well.

Sorry to sound so pedantic--but yes according to 40 years of using forensic psychiatric experts in court. But sure, in layman terms they are synonymous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question - could the parents have had him involuntarily committed as an adult once he was kicked out of dorm?
He even said his family tried so many ways to help him.
What can we, as a society, do about people like this?

Involuntary holds are only if you're a serious threat to yourself or others. Doesn't sound like he did any of that until this week. Even then the holds are only a few weeks.

The longest you can legally hold anyone involuntarily is 72 hours. It's a nightmare for parents with violent mentally ill children.

F*ck Ronald Reagan for many things including he dismantled an admittedly dysfunctional state mental structure in this country with no back up plan for how to handle any of this.

The blame on this starts with Kennedy, sadly.

Which Kennedy? JFK?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question - could the parents have had him involuntarily committed as an adult once he was kicked out of dorm?
He even said his family tried so many ways to help him.
What can we, as a society, do about people like this?

Involuntary holds are only if you're a serious threat to yourself or others. Doesn't sound like he did any of that until this week. Even then the holds are only a few weeks.

The longest you can legally hold anyone involuntarily is 72 hours. It's a nightmare for parents with violent mentally ill children.

F*ck Ronald Reagan for many things including he dismantled an admittedly dysfunctional state mental structure in this country with no back up plan for how to handle any of this.

The blame on this starts with Kennedy, sadly.

Which Kennedy? JFK?

Yes. Not that this covers the topic exhaustively, but to give you a sense of his significance, he’s an entire subtopic here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deinstitutionalization_in_the_United_States

[Anonymous]

Biden has announced his desire for national Red Flag laws. These are Extreme Risk Protection Orders that allow family members to file with law enforcement to have guns removed for a limited period of time in the case they feel under threat.

This would help. But only if the family members KNOW there are guns in the household. I think the law should include an amendment that all household members over the age of 18 need to be notified when another member of the same household buys a gun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It reminds me of the Tucson shooting—that young man has also been asked to leave his college due to specific concerns about violent statements made. It’s not just the mental health disorder—it’s that for this specific person, the mental health disorder is manifesting as violent tendencies.
I think some of the “red flag” laws that some states are enacting help get at this problem, but only if the educational or other institutions make a report. I bet him dad and grandmother also had an idea of what was going on, and if there had been any mechanism for them to tell the state “please don’t allow my kid to get a gun” they would have. That was true in the Tucson case—the parents were very upset that there was not a way for them to get the son on a “no purchase” list unless he was convicted of something. In most cases, the people close to them know something is wrong but we refuse to give them the tools to protect themselves or the community.

I don't understand why the college roommate or even the college didnt try to reach out to the family that their son planned on killing them????

The one son lost his dorm room obviously well before Covid, and I doubt one of the murderers ever told anyone besides the other brother about their plans. Certainly the school must have let the parents know whatever he did to get kicked out. I feel terrible for the parents, it seems like they tried to help according to that skin-crawling note.

When I was at University many years ago, all it took to get thrown out was to threaten suicide and to have a plan. At my particular Uni, threats to throw oneself off of the top of the football stadium seemed to be the preferred method. Even if you didn't actually jump, ascending the stairs was enough for a one way ticket home. College students are adults, not sure that parents even need to be told outside of a courtesy come and pick up your child, they have been involuntarily withdrawn.

[Anonymous]

Calling a poster here ‘nutty’ ‘lunatic’ and ‘stark raving mad’ shows a contempt for the mentally ill that is simply abhorrent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The MacArthur Violence Risk Assessment Study recently completed in the United States (1,18,19) has made a concerted effort to address these problems, so it stands out as the most sophisticated attempt to date to disentangle these complex interrelationships. Because they collected extensive follow-up data on a large cohort of subjects (N=1,136), the temporal sequencing of important events is clear. Because they used multiple measures of violence, including patient self-report, they have minimized the information bias characterizing past work. The innovative use of same-neighbour comparison subjects eliminates confounding from broad environmental influences such as socio-demographic or economic factors that may have exaggerated differences in past research.

In this study, the prevalence of violence among those with a major mental disorder who did not abuse substances was indistinguishable from their non-substance abusing neighbourhood controls. A concurrent substance abuse disorder doubled the risk of violence. Those with schizophrenia had the lowest occurrence of violence over the course of the year (14.8%), compared to those with a bipolar disorder (22.0%) or major depression (28.5%).

From: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1525086/#!po=1.25000

NOT ‘less than one percent’

Indistinguishable from their non-substance abusing neighborhood controls. Your entire theory of how to identify who is dangerous is defeated by this piece!

No it isn’t. Are you seriously so dense? My premise is that mental illness does lead to violence in a substantial number of cases - the literature I’ve cited proves this, and it entirely refutes the person here who has repeatedly posted that major depressives engage in violence at a rate of less than one percent - when the rate is actually almost 30%!

For all the bragging about academic pedigrees here, there seem to be a lot of folks incapable of basic reading comprehension.

Here is a quote from the very first paragraph of the study you cited:

Mental disorders are neither necessary nor sufficient causes of violence. Major determinants of violence continue to be socio-demographic and economic factors. Substance abuse is a major determinant of violence and this is true whether it occurs in the context of a concurrent mental illness or not. Therefore, early identification and treatment of substance abuse problems, and greater attention to the diagnosis and management of concurrent substance abuse disorders among seriously mentally ill, may be potential violence prevention strategies. Members of the public exaggerate both the strength of the association between mental illness and violence and their own personal risk. Finally, too little is known about the social contextual determinants of violence, but research supports the view the mentally ill are more often victims than perpetrators of violence.