it should be ok to question sudden revelations about gender dysphoria

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a real distinction here, and should be, between how a PARENT responds and how anyone else responds.

I think your response has been fantastic. I think you're clearly doing an awesome, thoughtful job with a difficult subject. Of course a parent shouldn't just accept anything a minor child says at face value. "I'm a dinosaur." "I'm actually a boy." "I want major surgery." should NEVER been responded to with an "Oh, okay" from a thoughtful parent. And I don't think there is anyone, of any level of "wokeness" of a person who thinks that's the right answer (maybe if they're older 16+, but certainly not for a 12 year old!) It's your job to listen to your child, figure out what they need, help them, get them the support they need. Take them seriously. And it sounds like you've done that.

I think the issue is how other people respond. If your child has a friend who says "I'm non-binary, and I use they/them pronouns" you say "Okay! Thank you for letting me know!" and you use they/them pronouns. You don't start questioning them, or saying they're just being trendy, or judging them. It's 100% not your place, and you can REALLY make things a lot worse for kids who are struggling by taking this route. This is the place where this kind of wokeness is good "Oh, okay great, whatever works!"

Ack, sorry, I'm the PP and a typo ruined my whole thing! Fixed and bolded above.

I totally agree.

[Anonymous]

My kid can identify however they want, use whatever name or pronoun they want, wear whatever they want. They absolutely cannot have puberty blockers, hormones, or surgery, unless I am absolutely convinced they have a stable and permanent identity as a different gender. It’s scary how the advocacy is now downplaying the risks of these interventions. Even if I was convinced my child was actually trans I would have a really, really tough time with hormones and surgery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was discussing this with SIL the other day because 22 year old niece is “exploring non-binary” which I think means she is wearing more masculine clothes, and she would be okay using they/them pronouns but is also okay with she/her.

I think one thing that is different these days, and a PP touched on it above, is the labels! When I was young (long long ago) and shopped largely in the mens department because I was self conscious about my body and wanted less revealing clothes, I just liked to wear those clothes. Now I think there’s a lot of drive or push to say that means something, to give it some significance, and with that comes a label. Or maybe the label comes first, I’m not sure.

The focus on labeling seems to be rampant in this culture. Who you are is how you identify, what box you check, what label you have.

Me too with the baggy clothes as a teen. I NEVER wanted to be noticed for my looks (unless it was my actual boyfriend).

[Anonymous]

I think it's depression. This is the way that some show it.

Watch some interviews with people who were "100% sure" that they were transgender and then later changed their minds. They admit that they were depressed, and they thought things would be better after the change, but it wasn't.

I think any sign of depression should be a major red flag, or if the person has things to gain by switching (like guys saying they're girls and being allowed to compete against women in sports).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was discussing this with SIL the other day because 22 year old niece is “exploring non-binary” which I think means she is wearing more masculine clothes, and she would be okay using they/them pronouns but is also okay with she/her.

I think one thing that is different these days, and a PP touched on it above, is the labels! When I was young (long long ago) and shopped largely in the mens department because I was self conscious about my body and wanted less revealing clothes, I just liked to wear those clothes. Now I think there’s a lot of drive or push to say that means something, to give it some significance, and with that comes a label. Or maybe the label comes first, I’m not sure.

The focus on labeling seems to be rampant in this culture. Who you are is how you identify, what box you check, what label you have.

+1000 I think this labeling has the effect of making gender stereotypes even more rigid.

[Anonymous]

When I was a tween, I wanted to pass as a boy. I was/am in no way trans, nonbinary, gay, or anything like that. I was, as other PPs have said, uncomfortable with my changing body and all that comes with young womanhood. I wore short hair and baggy clothes. The label at the time was tomboy, I guess. But, there mostly wasn't really any label.

In my gross oversimplification, sometimes I think we think too hard about stuff. I like OP's approach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there's a real distinction here, and should be, between how a PARENT responds and how anyone else responds.

I think your response has been fantastic. I think you're clearly doing an awesome, thoughtful job with a difficult subject. Of course a parent shouldn't just accept anything a minor child says at face value. "I'm a dinosaur." "I'm actually a boy." "I want major surgery." should NEVER been responded to with an "Oh, okay" from a thoughtful parent. And I don't think there is anyone, of any level of "wokeness" of a person who thinks that's the right answer (maybe if they're older 16+, but certainly not for a 12 year old!) It's your job to listen to your child, figure out what they need, help them, get them the support they need. Take them seriously. And it sounds like you've done that.

I think the issue is how other people respond. If your child has a friend who says "I'm non-binary, and I use they/them pronouns" you say "Okay! Thank you for letting me know!" and you use they/them pronouns. You don't start questioning them, or saying they're just being trendy, or judging them. It's 100% not your place, and you can REALLY make things a lot worse for kids who are struggling by taking this route. This is the place where this kind of wokeness is good "Oh, okay great, whatever works!"

Ack, sorry, I'm the PP and a typo ruined my whole thing! Fixed and bolded above.

I totally agree.

This is EXACTLY what I was thinking but I could not find the right words. If you are questioning your own child with genuine intention to get them to their true healthy mind space that is of course OK, even great. And I think you would be hard pressed to find trans folks who don't also hold that opinion. If it becomes obvious that you keep throwing up questions to try to "poke holes" in what they are saying because its not what you want them be, that's different and its a hard no to think you have the right to question other kids' revelations as you put it. As OP herself has continually noted, that's the parents job and it takes some gall to assume that either the parents didn't questions enough or that they didn't do it right and just accepted things based on the outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree OP. I took a college course at a liberal university on psych of gender. What makes you trans is that you felt like you were born in the wrong body. You hate your body and it feels wrong. Not that you don’t like dresses or stereotypically feminine things. Lord most lesbians would be trans if it were simply gender. Trans mean you are the wrong SEX. Gender can be whatever. I mean, I’m into cars and sports and I never wear heels but it didn’t occur to me to become a male. I’m just a woman who didn’t subscribe to these superficial things. I also don’t think my son was born the wrong sex because he loves pink and is incredibly sensitive and loves horses. I think this witch hunt is ridiculous and I hope JK Rowling gets her apology.

Funny, you basically just described my son too. He also plays ice hockey and lacrosse, and dances. I think he's just multi-faceted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was discussing this with SIL the other day because 22 year old niece is “exploring non-binary” which I think means she is wearing more masculine clothes, and she would be okay using they/them pronouns but is also okay with she/her.

I think one thing that is different these days, and a PP touched on it above, is the labels! When I was young (long long ago) and shopped largely in the mens department because I was self conscious about my body and wanted less revealing clothes, I just liked to wear those clothes. Now I think there’s a lot of drive or push to say that means something, to give it some significance, and with that comes a label. Or maybe the label comes first, I’m not sure.

The focus on labeling seems to be rampant in this culture. Who you are is how you identify, what box you check, what label you have.

+1000 I think this labeling has the effect of making gender stereotypes even more rigid.

I also agree about labeling making this issue worse and making gender stereotypes even more rigid.

I was never a girly-girl either. I just didn't care for that type of stuff. I will always remember 8 year old me with my short hair cut and my boys BMX bike. I do remember being mistaken for a boy a few times but I was able to shrug it off even though I was a bit offended. The label I had for myself - and I wish it hadn't gone away - was tomboy. So while I don't agree with all the labeling going on now, I don't think that was necessarily a bad label to have.

[Anonymous]

I think caution is warranted when it comes to hormonal therapies but when are kids supposed to get them? After they have already developed breasts or deep voices? Of course trans teens are getting hormone treatments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it's depression. This is the way that some show it.

Watch some interviews with people who were "100% sure" that they were transgender and then later changed their minds. They admit that they were depressed, and they thought things would be better after the change, but it wasn't.

I think any sign of depression should be a major red flag, or if the person has things to gain by switching (like guys saying they're girls and being allowed to compete against women in sports).

Absolutely. All of the girls who have been doing this that I've seen at my daughter's school are clearly depressed. The pandemic has made it worse. And by depressed, I mean: poor / crazy screwed up sleep schedule; weird eating; spending all day in room on internet; no exercise; friendships disappearing or all friendships within same self-pity / gender dysphoria crew. They are being told that changing their labels will make them feel better, and that society and its "labels" are the cause of their problems, and are *not* being told to take some accountability for themselves and deal with their issues. This is another example of the coddling / victimhood mindset that has taken over education and parenting and it's high-time that parents start to question it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was discussing this with SIL the other day because 22 year old niece is “exploring non-binary” which I think means she is wearing more masculine clothes, and she would be okay using they/them pronouns but is also okay with she/her.

I think one thing that is different these days, and a PP touched on it above, is the labels! When I was young (long long ago) and shopped largely in the mens department because I was self conscious about my body and wanted less revealing clothes, I just liked to wear those clothes. Now I think there’s a lot of drive or push to say that means something, to give it some significance, and with that comes a label. Or maybe the label comes first, I’m not sure.

The focus on labeling seems to be rampant in this culture. Who you are is how you identify, what box you check, what label you have.

+1000 I think this labeling has the effect of making gender stereotypes even more rigid.

I also agree about labeling making this issue worse and making gender stereotypes even more rigid.

I was never a girly-girl either. I just didn't care for that type of stuff. I will always remember 8 year old me with my short hair cut and my boys BMX bike. I do remember being mistaken for a boy a few times but I was able to shrug it off even though I was a bit offended. The label I had for myself - and I wish it hadn't gone away - was tomboy. So while I don't agree with all the labeling going on now, I don't think that was necessarily a bad label to have.

Yeah, it's beyond annoying that you can't just be a woman who isn't into manicures and high heels. And if one of my boys would prefer to do art than to play sports then people wonder if he's gay or actually a girl. Crazy!!

We need to stop with all the gender discussions. Just stop. There are certain facts of life about being female, like menstruation or being able to have a baby. Aside from that, most of life can be much the same. We need to stop talking about it all the time!!! No wonder so many kids are messed up. All they hear about is this crazy gender identity crap. It should have just been a teenage fad or phase that died out naturally. But instead some "progressives" needed to jump all over it and add it to school lessons and things like that, and our politicians are spending time discussing it. It's like the twilight zone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was discussing this with SIL the other day because 22 year old niece is “exploring non-binary” which I think means she is wearing more masculine clothes, and she would be okay using they/them pronouns but is also okay with she/her.

I think one thing that is different these days, and a PP touched on it above, is the labels! When I was young (long long ago) and shopped largely in the mens department because I was self conscious about my body and wanted less revealing clothes, I just liked to wear those clothes. Now I think there’s a lot of drive or push to say that means something, to give it some significance, and with that comes a label. Or maybe the label comes first, I’m not sure.

The focus on labeling seems to be rampant in this culture. Who you are is how you identify, what box you check, what label you have.

+1000 I think this labeling has the effect of making gender stereotypes even more rigid.

I also agree about labeling making this issue worse and making gender stereotypes even more rigid.

I was never a girly-girl either. I just didn't care for that type of stuff. I will always remember 8 year old me with my short hair cut and my boys BMX bike. I do remember being mistaken for a boy a few times but I was able to shrug it off even though I was a bit offended. The label I had for myself - and I wish it hadn't gone away - was tomboy. So while I don't agree with all the labeling going on now, I don't think that was necessarily a bad label to have.

Yeah, it's beyond annoying that you can't just be a woman who isn't into manicures and high heels. And if one of my boys would prefer to do art than to play sports then people wonder if he's gay or actually a girl. Crazy!!

We need to stop with all the gender discussions. Just stop. There are certain facts of life about being female, like menstruation or being able to have a baby. Aside from that, most of life can be much the same. We need to stop talking about it all the time!!! No wonder so many kids are messed up. All they hear about is this crazy gender identity crap. It should have just been a teenage fad or phase that died out naturally. But instead some "progressives" needed to jump all over it and add it to school lessons and things like that, and our politicians are spending time discussing it. It's like the twilight zone.

Uh, no. That is not the solution. That’s like saying “the solution to racism is to stop talking about race” while Black people are systemically discriminated against. And how would you feel if people constantly misgendered you or your kids?

I agree that there is a gender identity trend going on but trans and nonbinary people have been around for a long time and pretending gender identity doesn’t exist would be very harmful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's depression. This is the way that some show it.

Watch some interviews with people who were "100% sure" that they were transgender and then later changed their minds. They admit that they were depressed, and they thought things would be better after the change, but it wasn't.

I think any sign of depression should be a major red flag, or if the person has things to gain by switching (like guys saying they're girls and being allowed to compete against women in sports).

Absolutely. All of the girls who have been doing this that I've seen at my daughter's school are clearly depressed. The pandemic has made it worse. And by depressed, I mean: poor / crazy screwed up sleep schedule; weird eating; spending all day in room on internet; no exercise; friendships disappearing or all friendships within same self-pity / gender dysphoria crew. They are being told that changing their labels will make them feel better, and that society and its "labels" are the cause of their problems, and are *not* being told to take some accountability for themselves and deal with their issues. This is another example of the coddling / victimhood mindset that has taken over education and parenting and it's high-time that parents start to question it.

So what positive steps are you doing with your teen daughter to mitigate this? I'm genuinely interested in specific examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it's depression. This is the way that some show it.

Watch some interviews with people who were "100% sure" that they were transgender and then later changed their minds. They admit that they were depressed, and they thought things would be better after the change, but it wasn't.

I think any sign of depression should be a major red flag, or if the person has things to gain by switching (like guys saying they're girls and being allowed to compete against women in sports).

Absolutely. All of the girls who have been doing this that I've seen at my daughter's school are clearly depressed. The pandemic has made it worse. And by depressed, I mean: poor / crazy screwed up sleep schedule; weird eating; spending all day in room on internet; no exercise; friendships disappearing or all friendships within same self-pity / gender dysphoria crew. They are being told that changing their labels will make them feel better, and that society and its "labels" are the cause of their problems, and are *not* being told to take some accountability for themselves and deal with their issues. This is another example of the coddling / victimhood mindset that has taken over education and parenting and it's high-time that parents start to question it.

So what positive steps are you doing with your teen daughter to mitigate this? I'm genuinely interested in specific examples.

Not pp but one thing we continually are struggling with is trying to find ways to stop her from rat-holing in internet / social media "holes" of negativity. It's almost impossible though, as school now requires computers, so there's always the "but I need it for school" excuse. I do find that when I can get her out of her room, outside, talking, reading books not the internet, that things almost immediately improve.