Politics, not COVID rates, determined school openings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

That's impossible to know. What is possible to know is the COVID rates that go up when schools open. What a mystery, eh?

The view that there should be zero COVID cases in schools is very much political. And the evidence does not show COVID is spreading from
schools anyway. I expect you to make a more coherent argument here.

Why do people keep posting, "Why can Europe open schools safely when we can't" when they have such high spikes now that they are forced to do shut downs, and then in the same breath say opening schools doesn't contribute to rising numbers of cases? That's so stupid. Of course it does.

You’re not very smart are you? When schools opened up, so did everything else. People in Europe traveled all summer long without a care in the world. That’s what contributed-mostly-to rising case numbers. As evidenced by the fact that most European countries are shutting down restaurants, personal gatherings, etc. but not schools. How many studies do you need showing that open schools really do not contribute to rising case numbers?

MENSA member, actually. If everything has been open and people have been travelling freely, how can you tell whether or not open schools contributed to the surge in cases? That's like saying I gained 25 pounds over the holidays but it can't be the pie I ate because I also ate entire loaves of bread, slathered my food with mayo and fried everything in butter, so I'm not going to cut out the pie now. It's definitely not the pie.....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

That's impossible to know. What is possible to know is the COVID rates that go up when schools open. What a mystery, eh?

The view that there should be zero COVID cases in schools is very much political. And the evidence does not show COVID is spreading from
schools anyway. I expect you to make a more coherent argument here.

Why do people keep posting, "Why can Europe open schools safely when we can't" when they have such high spikes now that they are forced to do shut downs, and then in the same breath say opening schools doesn't contribute to rising numbers of cases? That's so stupid. Of course it does.

First, many schools in Europe are STAYING OPEN because they politically and culturally prioritize school. Second, schools are shut due to community spread; not due to spread within the schools. They don't close schools because they conclude that schools are the source of the spread, but rather because the spread has gotten so out of control that they feel they have to shut everything down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Article confirms what any keen observer could discern: school openings had nothing to do with actual covid risks, and everything to do with politics and unions.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/11/10/partisanship-schools-reopening-virus-trump-unions/

School closures had everything to do with politics:

Schools are closed because Trump screwed up the COVID response (probably intentionally) and Republicans backed him... for judges.


Basically, it’s not far off to say Trump and Republicans traded Barrett for 100,000 American lives, and kids not getting educated. Was it worth it?

Except that's not at ALL what actually happened. Public schools remained closed in large districts with strong unions, even where COVID rates were extremely low. DC, SF, MoCo ... it had nothing to do with Trump's failures.

[Anonymous]

It's possible for both things to be true. Reopening decisions can be purely political and reopening schools can cause spikes in Covid spread.

I, personally, think that our collective decision to prioritize opening bars and restaurants over schools was our biggest mistake. I guess that the fact that these decisions happened in June might be part of it (schools seemed pretty theoretical at the time), but it still was an almost unforgivable mistake for which our kids are all now suffering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

That's impossible to know. What is possible to know is the COVID rates that go up when schools open. What a mystery, eh?

The view that there should be zero COVID cases in schools is very much political. And the evidence does not show COVID is spreading from
schools anyway. I expect you to make a more coherent argument here.

Why do people keep posting, "Why can Europe open schools safely when we can't" when they have such high spikes now that they are forced to do shut downs, and then in the same breath say opening schools doesn't contribute to rising numbers of cases? That's so stupid. Of course it does.

You’re not very smart are you? When schools opened up, so did everything else. People in Europe traveled all summer long without a care in the world. That’s what contributed-mostly-to rising case numbers. As evidenced by the fact that most European countries are shutting down restaurants, personal gatherings, etc. but not schools. How many studies do you need showing that open schools really do not contribute to rising case numbers?

MENSA member, actually. If everything has been open and people have been travelling freely, how can you tell whether or not open schools contributed to the surge in cases? That's like saying I gained 25 pounds over the holidays but it can't be the pie I ate because I also ate entire loaves of bread, slathered my food with mayo and fried everything in butter, so I'm not going to cut out the pie now. It's definitely not the pie.....

Ok MENSA member, read the f'in article. The point of the article is that school districts do NOT appear to be assessing the research and public policy recommendations, but rather making decisions based on local politics.

If you look at the actual public health recommendations (e.g., CHOP), they are uniformly in favor of reopening schools under the conditions that existed in August, when DCPS and other union-dominated districts opted to stay closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's possible for both things to be true. Reopening decisions can be purely political and reopening schools can cause spikes in Covid spread.

I, personally, think that our collective decision to prioritize opening bars and restaurants over schools was our biggest mistake. I guess that the fact that these decisions happened in June might be part of it (schools seemed pretty theoretical at the time), but it still was an almost unforgivable mistake for which our kids are all now suffering.

Except there's very little evidence (practical or research) that reopening elementary schools caused community COVID rates to increase.

[Anonymous]

As soon as Trump said he wanted schools to open, it was clear it would be a political issue. Each side dug in their heels. My kids are in a private elementary school with mitigation measures. There’s been one case in the school, that class switched to DL for two weeks and now they’re back. No transmission at school. Of course, now community spread is increasing, so we may all switch to DL, but I’m glad we’ve had these three months.

Schools that are trying to start back now basically missed the window of lower numbers. I agree with op that it was a political decision over the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As soon as Trump said he wanted schools to open, it was clear it would be a political issue. Each side dug in their heels. My kids are in a private elementary school with mitigation measures. There’s been one case in the school, that class switched to DL for two weeks and now they’re back. No transmission at school. Of course, now community spread is increasing, so we may all switch to DL, but I’m glad we’ve had these three months.

Schools that are trying to start back now basically missed the window of lower numbers. I agree with op that it was a political decision over the summer.

And it was unforgivable for unions and local officials to make this into a political issue, no matter how wrong Trump might have been. I looked at all my relatives with kids in private who were starting in August and realized that something was really wrong.

[Anonymous]

It is ridiculous that people pretend that schools are magical places where the virus can’t be transmitted. We know how quickly illness spreads in schools. COVID is more contagious than many others, and schools are ill equipped to prevent spread. Period. Unless you shut down everything else (including grocery stores and hospitals), prevented people from socializing, and kept schools open you have no idea how much community spread is a result of open schools. We see huge virus outbreaks in areas with open schools and people are like “but restaurants!” Kids eat in my classroom twice a day (breakfast and lunch). That IS indoor dining, and without the stringent cleaning and air filtration systems restaurants have. Just admit that you want schools open and don’t care about the repercussions, and then we can have an honest conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how "keen observers" miss the alarmingly high COVID rates in countries with open schools, and in areas of the US with open schools. If anything, politics have forced schools to open when they should have stayed shut.

Did you read the article? There is no correlation between covid rates and school openings. I’m still agog at supposedly progressive and intelligent DC parents who don’t get this.

Then what is it? Rates are up what quadruple since schools open? I don’t think row spreading in schools, but more like parents send their kids to school, so they go to the office or the gym or Starbucks or let their kids play with school mates since they are together anyway. Why do you think rates are so high?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous that people pretend that schools are magical places where the virus can’t be transmitted. We know how quickly illness spreads in schools. COVID is more contagious than many others, and schools are ill equipped to prevent spread. Period. Unless you shut down everything else (including grocery stores and hospitals), prevented people from socializing, and kept schools open you have no idea how much community spread is a result of open schools. We see huge virus outbreaks in areas with open schools and people are like “but restaurants!” Kids eat in my classroom twice a day (breakfast and lunch). That IS indoor dining, and without the stringent cleaning and air filtration systems restaurants have. Just admit that you want schools open and don’t care about the repercussions, and then we can have an honest conversation.

And yet, catholic schools and other privates are open in this area without any outbreaks. It can be done, when mitigation measures are taken and community spread is below certain metrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is ridiculous that people pretend that schools are magical places where the virus can’t be transmitted. We know how quickly illness spreads in schools. COVID is more contagious than many others, and schools are ill equipped to prevent spread. Period. Unless you shut down everything else (including grocery stores and hospitals), prevented people from socializing, and kept schools open you have no idea how much community spread is a result of open schools. We see huge virus outbreaks in areas with open schools and people are like “but restaurants!” Kids eat in my classroom twice a day (breakfast and lunch). That IS indoor dining, and without the stringent cleaning and air filtration systems restaurants have. Just admit that you want schools open and don’t care about the repercussions, and then we can have an honest conversation.

And yet, catholic schools and other privates are open in this area without any outbreaks. It can be done, when mitigation measures are taken and community spread is below certain metrics.

Please, show us evidence that there are no outbreaks. Many private schools are simply not required to report cases and obviously choose not to, because it looks bad. I work in NYC and there have been 2,000+ cases (over a thousand staff members and 900+ students) even though we are open at a quarter capacity, there is “random” testing, and nightly disinfection.

[Anonymous]

Wrong. They need to report cases. It worked in many schools. And I am not one saying it could work in all PS.

What many people here don't pay attention to is the immunology. COVID attaches to the ACE and children have low density of ACE. This is why they can spread though to a lesser extent than adults and few show symptoms or get sick. Kids are by and large safe. Teachers carry a risk of getting sick. Again, most research has shown masks reduce that risk.

The debate is purely what risk is acceptable ( how low does it have to be) and who get s to decide. And really, no one is weighing in hard on the alternative. A few parents are complaining, but nothing in comparison to the teacher's union.

It is a political issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. They need to report cases. It worked in many schools. And I am not one saying it could work in all PS.

What many people here don't pay attention to is the immunology. COVID attaches to the ACE and children have low density of ACE. This is why they can spread though to a lesser extent than adults and few show symptoms or get sick. Kids are by and large safe. Teachers carry a risk of getting sick. Again, most research has shown masks reduce that risk.

The debate is purely what risk is acceptable ( how low does it have to be) and who get s to decide. And really, no one is weighing in hard on the alternative. A few parents are complaining, but nothing in comparison to the teacher's union.

It is a political issue.

This is it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wrong. They need to report cases. It worked in many schools. And I am not one saying it could work in all PS.

What many people here don't pay attention to is the immunology. COVID attaches to the ACE and children have low density of ACE. This is why they can spread though to a lesser extent than adults and few show symptoms or get sick. Kids are by and large safe. Teachers carry a risk of getting sick. Again, most research has shown masks reduce that risk.

The debate is purely what risk is acceptable ( how low does it have to be) and who get s to decide. And really, no one is weighing in hard on the alternative. A few parents are complaining, but nothing in comparison to the teacher's union.

It is a political issue.

Again, no evidence that (1) they are required to report cases publicly and (2) no data to support that there have been “no outbreaks”. Simply saying it doesn’t make it true. The rules for reporting vary by state and no, not all schools are required to do so.
The number of children with COVID has dramatically increased since schools have reopened. It’s just silly to pretend that it isn’t happening. You can dismiss these infections as being a result of indoor dining or bars if you want, but that would be burying your head in the sand. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.statista.com/chart/amp/22537/covid-among-american-children/