Why are most teachers too scared to return to in person teaching, but most parents want schools open

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I do think you are onto something, OP. My husband normally works full time out of the house and he is loving working from home. When we talk about his office reopening at some point, we kind of dread it. And we've already agreed that if they try to reopen the office anytime soon, he will say he doesn't feel comfortable in an office with Covid still so prevalent [b]and ask to continue at home. It is partly that fear (he would have to commute via public transportation and his office has an ancient and notoriously terrible HVAC system), but it's also a good excuse to just keep working at home, get to spend more time with our kid, and skip his awful commute.

Surely there are teachers in the same position. Like you, I don't fault them -- there is so much more flexibility to working from home, especially if you have kids or normally have a tough commute. I've worked from home for years and have always loved it.

Meanwhile, I think parents want schools open because they are struggling to handle childcare and work. Which is also understandable! I don't think parents want to put teachers (or themselves) at risk of Covid. I just think they are in a tough situation and engaging in some optimistic thinking about how in-person schooling would go.

I don't understand all the vitriol towards teachers who want to stay home or parents who want their kids in school. These seem like understandable positions to me. I mostly blame all the public officials who have botched the whole decision making process and also have done so little to control the virus, making everything harder than it should be. Everyone else is just trying their best.

My husband as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the teachers don't want to die while the parents just want childcare.

C'mon, man, read any of the 29034723 threads on this topic that exist already.

Plus a million. You’re an idiot, op.

[Anonymous]

Parent= I don't want them open. If the teachers get Covid, we get more subs and last year the subs were horrible. I don't feel safe with kids going back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a teacher and a parent.

I'm not scared to return to work in a school setting, but I don't see how we can teach a full group of students and I don't see how hybrid would really work. I could see returning to in school for a smaller group of selected students -- K-3rd grade. I always thought 4th-12th should distance learn and K-3 should be spread out among all the older kids schools.

That seems to make the most sense to me.

Of course, when I say return to schools, I mean when we are in a safe time to do so, with community spread of COVID down to 1 or 2 new cases, per 100,000 people, per day; and when we have enough tests and PPE to be reasonable secure.

We have NONE of the above in the DC area right now.

I do not want my own personal children going back to school until the above measures have been reached, either.

Ok, but still....how to account for the fact that most parents say they want their kids in school in person, and most teachers want to teach from home?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the teachers don't want to die while the parents just want childcare.

C'mon, man, read any of the 29034723 threads on this topic that exist already.

Plus a million. You’re an idiot, op.

How am I an idiot? Why aren’t the parent’s afraid of dying as well? Their kid is more likely to get Covid at school than their kid’s teacher is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because the teachers don't want to die while the parents just want childcare.

C'mon, man, read any of the 29034723 threads on this topic that exist already.

+1. This OP sounds astonishingly clueless.

[Anonymous]

The average age of parents with school-aged children is a lot lower than the average age of teachers. Especially in public schools, there are a lot of teachers close to retirement age. Big difference in risk profile between parents and teachers.

[Anonymous]

I’m teacher and a parent. I don’t want my kids at school, and fortunately their schools are doing DL. I as a teacher don’t want school to be in person because it’s simply not safe. The US has done nothing but make things worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the teachers don't want to die while the parents just want childcare.

C'mon, man, read any of the 29034723 threads on this topic that exist already.

But this doesn’t make sense because the kids are probably more likely to get Covid tha. The teachers are, and they can transmit it to their family members.

Oh my God. Are you stupid or just willfully obtuse? Adults have a MUCH higher risk of serious outcomes or death from COVID than young children. Many teachers are older and have risk-heightening health conditions (many -- the fiction that schools are full of healthy 20-something adults is a myth). Adults shut in enclosed classrooms all day with kids who won't comply with masks, who won't distance, who won't cover their coughs and sneezes. Come ON. Use your brain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My job is much harder to do at home. It’s hard enough to do at school. I live with my mom who is not in great health. So I’ll do much more work in order to keep her safe.

Ok, but parents are just as likely to have a vulnerable family member living with them, as teachers, yet survey after survey shows the vast majority of parents want schools to reopen and the vast majority of teachers want schools virtual. Since there is no reason to think teachers are more naturally cautious than the public at large, I think it’s safe to assume that there something else at play here

No, dear. It is not "the vast majority." In many districts, it's close to 50/50.

And once again for the slow people in the back, the screaming Open Up Now parents will give you a laundry list of nonsense reasons like "socialization" during a pandemic, "it doesn't worrrrrrk for my special, special snowflake," "but-think-of-the-FARMS-kids" (who they don't actually give a crap about, but just wield them as a bargaining tool to demand in person for their own kids), etc, etc, but THEY WANT SCHOOLS TO OPEN BECAUSE THEY DEMAND FREE CHILDCARE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My job is much harder to do at home. It’s hard enough to do at school. I live with my mom who is not in great health. So I’ll do much more work in order to keep her safe.

Ok, but parents are just as likely to have a vulnerable family member living with them, as teachers, yet survey after survey shows the vast majority of parents want schools to reopen and the vast majority of teachers want schools virtual. Since there is no reason to think teachers are more naturally cautious than the public at large, I think it’s safe to assume that there something else at play here

The only survey data I've seen has been FCPS and MCPS. In both of those parents and teachers were both divided relatively close to 50/50, just in the opposite direction. Slightly more than 50% of parents chose hybrid, and slightly more than 50% of teachers chose DL, but there were no "vast majorities". There was enough of a difference that it was one factor complicating the hybrid model, but it wasn't a vast difference.

I think there are a few things here that account for the difference in selection rates.

1) Many teachers are parents. Given hybrid learning, I wonder if most parents, given the choice to work from home or to work from their work place, would choose the latter. I'm guessing not. So, some teachers are going to be motivated by the same thing, the need to provide safety and supervision for their own kids.

2) I'm not sure that it's true that teachers and parents are equally likely to have high risk family members. In my experience as a teacher, my colleagues are, on average, older than my students' parents.

3) I'm a teacher (although I have a position that is 100% DL for this year, in part because of 2 very high risk household members), but when I think about what the teachers at my school are being told, which is that they can quarantine/isolate once for themselves at full pay, and once for themselves or a kid at 2/3 pay, but beyond that they won't be paid unless they have saved leave. I have 3 school aged kids, and no saved leave as I'm returning from maternity leave. I can't imagine that if we all returned to school, I wouldn't have to quarantine at least once for each kid when there was an exposure in my class. So, knowing that I was choosing between getting paid all year, or almost certainly having leave at 2/3 pay and leave without pay, would weigh into my choice.

4) We've seen how the sausage is made. I'm a special ed teacher. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to teach my kids to follow social distancing protocols and keep their masks on. I also know that there will be times when kids will need hands on support, and that support will come from me, not peers. For example, I have students with CP who won't be able to adjust a droopy mask, or put it back on after eating, and that would fall to me if I was in the classroom. So, I'm not sure I agree with the logic that the kids are more likely to get it than I am. I also have zero confidence in my school's ability to keep bathrooms stocked with soap and paper towels, and to have ventilation systems that work, and other things, because I have years of memories of bringing my own soap to work, and dealing with vermin infestations, and having it be 100 degrees in my classroom in February to undermine my confidence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the teachers don't want to die while the parents just want childcare.

C'mon, man, read any of the 29034723 threads on this topic that exist already.

But this doesn’t make sense because the kids are probably more likely to get Covid tha. The teachers are, and they can transmit it to their family members.

Oh my God. Are you stupid or just willfully obtuse? Adults have a MUCH higher risk of serious outcomes or death from COVID than young children. Many teachers are older and have risk-heightening health conditions (many -- the fiction that schools are full of healthy 20-something adults is a myth). Adults shut in enclosed classrooms all day with kids who won't comply with masks, who won't distance, who won't cover their coughs and sneezes. Come ON. Use your brain.

Yeah the kids won’t get very sick, but they can still pass it on to their parents. That’s the point. Why aren’t large numbers of parents “fearing for their lives” at the prospect of their kids getting Covid at school and bringing it home? And yes, teachers are in a room with 20+ kids who won’t cover their sneezes, but so are the other kids, and there will be kids who sit much closer to the offenders, and can’t get up and move away. Teachers are up and moving around. They don’t spend much time within close vicinity of any particular kid. The kids are in a much more precarious position of getting the virus than the teachers are. And no, not all teachers are 60 and over. Most are in their 30s. I’m close to 50 and I’m not worried about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My job is much harder to do at home. It’s hard enough to do at school. I live with my mom who is not in great health. So I’ll do much more work in order to keep her safe.

Ok, but parents are just as likely to have a vulnerable family member living with them, as teachers, yet survey after survey shows the vast majority of parents want schools to reopen and the vast majority of teachers want schools virtual. Since there is no reason to think teachers are more naturally cautious than the public at large, I think it’s safe to assume that there something else at play here

The only survey data I've seen has been FCPS and MCPS. In both of those parents and teachers were both divided relatively close to 50/50, just in the opposite direction. Slightly more than 50% of parents chose hybrid, and slightly more than 50% of teachers chose DL, but there were no "vast majorities". There was enough of a difference that it was one factor complicating the hybrid model, but it wasn't a vast difference.

I think there are a few things here that account for the difference in selection rates.

1) Many teachers are parents. Given hybrid learning, I wonder if most parents, given the choice to work from home or to work from their work place, would choose the latter. I'm guessing not. So, some teachers are going to be motivated by the same thing, the need to provide safety and supervision for their own kids.

2) I'm not sure that it's true that teachers and parents are equally likely to have high risk family members. In my experience as a teacher, my colleagues are, on average, older than my students' parents.

3) I'm a teacher (although I have a position that is 100% DL for this year, in part because of 2 very high risk household members), but when I think about what the teachers at my school are being told, which is that they can quarantine/isolate once for themselves at full pay, and once for themselves or a kid at 2/3 pay, but beyond that they won't be paid unless they have saved leave. I have 3 school aged kids, and no saved leave as I'm returning from maternity leave. I can't imagine that if we all returned to school, I wouldn't have to quarantine at least once for each kid when there was an exposure in my class. So, knowing that I was choosing between getting paid all year, or almost certainly having leave at 2/3 pay and leave without pay, would weigh into my choice.

4) We've seen how the sausage is made. I'm a special ed teacher. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to teach my kids to follow social distancing protocols and keep their masks on. I also know that there will be times when kids will need hands on support, and that support will come from me, not peers. For example, I have students with CP who won't be able to adjust a droopy mask, or put it back on after eating, and that would fall to me if I was in the classroom. So, I'm not sure I agree with the logic that the kids are more likely to get it than I am. I also have zero confidence in my school's ability to keep bathrooms stocked with soap and paper towels, and to have ventilation systems that work, and other things, because I have years of memories of bringing my own soap to work, and dealing with vermin infestations, and having it be 100 degrees in my classroom in February to undermine my confidence.

But wait. A pp claimed that most teachers are near 50.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My job is much harder to do at home. It’s hard enough to do at school. I live with my mom who is not in great health. So I’ll do much more work in order to keep her safe.

Ok, but parents are just as likely to have a vulnerable family member living with them, as teachers, yet survey after survey shows the vast majority of parents want schools to reopen and the vast majority of teachers want schools virtual. Since there is no reason to think teachers are more naturally cautious than the public at large, I think it’s safe to assume that there something else at play here

The only survey data I've seen has been FCPS and MCPS. In both of those parents and teachers were both divided relatively close to 50/50, just in the opposite direction. Slightly more than 50% of parents chose hybrid, and slightly more than 50% of teachers chose DL, but there were no "vast majorities". There was enough of a difference that it was one factor complicating the hybrid model, but it wasn't a vast difference.

I think there are a few things here that account for the difference in selection rates.

1) Many teachers are parents. Given hybrid learning, I wonder if most parents, given the choice to work from home or to work from their work place, would choose the latter. I'm guessing not. So, some teachers are going to be motivated by the same thing, the need to provide safety and supervision for their own kids.

2) I'm not sure that it's true that teachers and parents are equally likely to have high risk family members. In my experience as a teacher, my colleagues are, on average, older than my students' parents.

3) I'm a teacher (although I have a position that is 100% DL for this year, in part because of 2 very high risk household members), but when I think about what the teachers at my school are being told, which is that they can quarantine/isolate once for themselves at full pay, and once for themselves or a kid at 2/3 pay, but beyond that they won't be paid unless they have saved leave. I have 3 school aged kids, and no saved leave as I'm returning from maternity leave. I can't imagine that if we all returned to school, I wouldn't have to quarantine at least once for each kid when there was an exposure in my class. So, knowing that I was choosing between getting paid all year, or almost certainly having leave at 2/3 pay and leave without pay, would weigh into my choice.

4) We've seen how the sausage is made. I'm a special ed teacher. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to teach my kids to follow social distancing protocols and keep their masks on. I also know that there will be times when kids will need hands on support, and that support will come from me, not peers. For example, I have students with CP who won't be able to adjust a droopy mask, or put it back on after eating, and that would fall to me if I was in the classroom. So, I'm not sure I agree with the logic that the kids are more likely to get it than I am. I also have zero confidence in my school's ability to keep bathrooms stocked with soap and paper towels, and to have ventilation systems that work, and other things, because I have years of memories of bringing my own soap to work, and dealing with vermin infestations, and having it be 100 degrees in my classroom in February to undermine my confidence.

But wait. A pp claimed that most teachers are near 50.

“60”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My job is much harder to do at home. It’s hard enough to do at school. I live with my mom who is not in great health. So I’ll do much more work in order to keep her safe.

Ok, but parents are just as likely to have a vulnerable family member living with them, as teachers, yet survey after survey shows the vast majority of parents want schools to reopen and the vast majority of teachers want schools virtual. Since there is no reason to think teachers are more naturally cautious than the public at large, I think it’s safe to assume that there something else at play here

The only survey data I've seen has been FCPS and MCPS. In both of those parents and teachers were both divided relatively close to 50/50, just in the opposite direction. Slightly more than 50% of parents chose hybrid, and slightly more than 50% of teachers chose DL, but there were no "vast majorities". There was enough of a difference that it was one factor complicating the hybrid model, but it wasn't a vast difference.

I think there are a few things here that account for the difference in selection rates.

1) Many teachers are parents. Given hybrid learning, I wonder if most parents, given the choice to work from home or to work from their work place, would choose the latter. I'm guessing not. So, some teachers are going to be motivated by the same thing, the need to provide safety and supervision for their own kids.

2) I'm not sure that it's true that teachers and parents are equally likely to have high risk family members. In my experience as a teacher, my colleagues are, on average, older than my students' parents.

3) I'm a teacher (although I have a position that is 100% DL for this year, in part because of 2 very high risk household members), but when I think about what the teachers at my school are being told, which is that they can quarantine/isolate once for themselves at full pay, and once for themselves or a kid at 2/3 pay, but beyond that they won't be paid unless they have saved leave. I have 3 school aged kids, and no saved leave as I'm returning from maternity leave. I can't imagine that if we all returned to school, I wouldn't have to quarantine at least once for each kid when there was an exposure in my class. So, knowing that I was choosing between getting paid all year, or almost certainly having leave at 2/3 pay and leave without pay, would weigh into my choice.

4) We've seen how the sausage is made. I'm a special ed teacher. I have a lot of confidence in my ability to teach my kids to follow social distancing protocols and keep their masks on. I also know that there will be times when kids will need hands on support, and that support will come from me, not peers. For example, I have students with CP who won't be able to adjust a droopy mask, or put it back on after eating, and that would fall to me if I was in the classroom. So, I'm not sure I agree with the logic that the kids are more likely to get it than I am. I also have zero confidence in my school's ability to keep bathrooms stocked with soap and paper towels, and to have ventilation systems that work, and other things, because I have years of memories of bringing my own soap to work, and dealing with vermin infestations, and having it be 100 degrees in my classroom in February to undermine my confidence.

But wait. A pp claimed that most teachers are near 50.

A pp didn't claim that most teachers are near 50. He/she claimed that the average age of teachers is older. Yes, there are many teachers with school aged kids, but they're balanced out by large numbers who are older. Both groups have more of a reason to want to stay home, than the average affluent parent (the demographic that seems to be advocating for hybrid) has.