Elissa Silverman and BLM Anti-Semitism Controversy

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

That's your opinion. Other's obviously took it differently. And they're just as entitled to their opinion, and to express that opinion.

So now we are treating tweets like they are ancient Greek texts subject to various interpretations? Read her tweet. Where does she state a quid pro quo?

As they say, you are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

I didn't accuse her of being transactional! I hadn't heard anything about this until I saw your post.

Though I do see where that reading comes from, I can take her apologies and explanations at face value.

[Anonymous]

I agree it was not transactional. On the other hand it seems surprising that she didn’t anticipate this was a possible (likely?) reaction.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

Jeff, you can’t understand this without the backstory, and also without some American history/politics.

McDuffie appears to mean well, but there’s a segment of the Black population that has been susceptible to anti-Semitic propaganda. I have looked a bit into this and from what I can tell it appears organic— it started decades ago and it does not APPEAR to be linked to anyone in the elite conservative world. I thought Buckley and his people would have made common cause or tried to fund it but no evidence that I can see.

Tony Martin at Wellesley was a prominent figure in this anti-Semitic conspiracy mongering amongst Blacks. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1995/09/slavery-and-the-jews/376462/
And it’s linked to the Nation of Islam and Farrakhan.
And it includes the “Rothschild” stuff. It’s not as big or influential as the white supremacist movement that is politically ascendent, but it exists and we should push back against it.

So that’s the backdrop for Trayon White’s comments in 2018. What he said is absolutely within this conspiracy tradition and was horrible.
And Silverman called him out, rightfully.
And Bowser’s response was insufficient. It’s no surprise Silverman is still upset about it.

I think Silverman’s tweet was absolutely fair and unconditional, and rightfully referenced the incomplete response to the 2018 incident.

And McDuffie and Todd are just falsely playing politics with it— distorting what Silverman says. (I bet Silverman sees tacit approval from Bowser here too, who is Silverman’s political rival and Todd’s close ally, but I don’t know for sure.)

Do you agree with that?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

I’m curious: How do you read / understand her use of the word “eventually “? Without knowing anything about any backstories, when I got to that, it seriously took me aback.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:
Jeff, you can’t understand this without the backstory, and also without some American history/politics.

McDuffie appears to mean well, but there’s a segment of the Black population that has been susceptible to anti-Semitic propaganda. I have looked a bit into this and from what I can tell it appears organic— it started decades ago and it does not APPEAR to be linked to anyone in the elite conservative world. I thought Buckley and his people would have made common cause or tried to fund it but no evidence that I can see.

Tony Martin at Wellesley was a prominent figure in this anti-Semitic conspiracy mongering amongst Blacks. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1995/09/slavery-and-the-jews/376462/
And it’s linked to the Nation of Islam and Farrakhan.
And it includes the “Rothschild” stuff. It’s not as big or influential as the white supremacist movement that is politically ascendent, but it exists and we should push back against it.

So that’s the backdrop for Trayon White’s comments in 2018. What he said is absolutely within this conspiracy tradition and was horrible.
And Silverman called him out, rightfully.
And Bowser’s response was insufficient. It’s no surprise Silverman is still upset about it.

I think Silverman’s tweet was absolutely fair and unconditional, and rightfully referenced the incomplete response to the 2018 incident.

And McDuffie and Todd are just falsely playing politics with it— distorting what Silverman says. (I bet Silverman sees tacit approval from Bowser here too, who is Silverman’s political rival and Todd’s close ally, but I don’t know for sure.)

Do you agree with that?

My memory of the Trayon White controversy was that Silverman was fairly understanding and supportive of him. There were more issues between Silverman and Bowser, especially where Josh Lopez was concerned. I agree that McDuffie and Todd are opportunistically jumping on this. Silverman endorsed Janeese Lewis George who just beat Todd so maybe this is his way to get payback.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

That's your opinion. Other's obviously took it differently. And they're just as entitled to their opinion, and to express that opinion.

So now we are treating tweets like they are ancient Greek texts subject to various interpretations? Read her tweet. Where does she state a quid pro quo?

As they say, you are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

What are you looking for here? Do you want to understand the other perspective? Or do you just want submission to your point of view? Contrition?

People saw it differently than you do. And they took issue with what was insinuated even if not explicitly stated.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

I’m curious: How do you read / understand her use of the word “eventually “? Without knowing anything about any backstories, when I got to that, it seriously took me aback.

I understood "eventually" to mean "sometime in the future".

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

I’m curious: How do you read / understand her use of the word “eventually “? Without knowing anything about any backstories, when I got to that, it seriously took me aback.

I understood "eventually" to mean "sometime in the future".

And the unstated portion of that statement is an insinuation that that has not been the case in the past.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

That's your opinion. Other's obviously took it differently. And they're just as entitled to their opinion, and to express that opinion.

So now we are treating tweets like they are ancient Greek texts subject to various interpretations? Read her tweet. Where does she state a quid pro quo?

As they say, you are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts.

What are you looking for here? Do you want to understand the other perspective? Or do you just want submission to your point of view? Contrition?

People saw it differently than you do. And they took issue with what was insinuated even if not explicitly stated.

I am interested in not having a movement that I support hindered by unnecessary infighting. Silverman is probably the best ally BLM could have on the Council. Do you really think the likes of Brandon Todd are going to support the type of police reforms BLM is seeking?

Please explain to me what upset you about Silverman's tweet and what you want her to do about it? Are you standing with Todd and McDuiffie or do you think their statements are misplaced and unhelpful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there are two potential issues:
1. There's an implied accusation that they wouldn't support antisemitism.
2. She's centering herself when right now we're supposed to raising and centering black voices.

I think point 2 is the issue. Time and place.

Fine. If you think that is what she is doing, criticize her for that. Don't issue statements saying that she is being transactional when she clearly wasn't.

I’m curious: How do you read / understand her use of the word “eventually “? Without knowing anything about any backstories, when I got to that, it seriously took me aback.

I understood "eventually" to mean "sometime in the future".

And the unstated portion of that statement is an insinuation that that has not been the case in the past.

Yeah, that’s how I read it too — very pointedly— again, without knowing anything beyond what she actually wrote.

[Anonymous]

It’s dumb shit like this that delays progress and derails change. It’s a friggin tweet. And not even an egregiously offensive or insensitive one at that. It was poor timing on her part at best.

When somebody’s got their knee on your friend’s neck and they’re pleading for help that is not the best time to casually mention that you needed help last year and say you hope they’ll help you in the future. They got a knee in their damn neck they ain’t trying to hear all that. Just help them.

And even still, she apologized. She didn’t tweet anything especially harsh or heinous and yet she still immediately and sincerely apologized. Why are folks still tripping? So I’m like, Kenyan...Brandon...WTF are y’all doing?

As fired up as Blacks are right now these protests wouldn’t register half as powerful on the Richter scale if it weren’t for white folks hitting them streets right along side Blacks and no progress or change will come from all of this without white folks support. Alienating em and flicking off on allies over stupid shit is totally counterproductive.

Folks need to shut up step back and refocus their energy and anger where it belongs or the enthusiasm will fade and the momentum will fizzle and nothing is gonna get accomplished.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think she was being transactional.

There is a dark history of anti-Semitism among *some* AAs—Louis Farrakhan has had resonance among some—and I hope the response from BLM wasn’t a reflection of that.

There is also a strain of anti-Semitism among *some* parts of the progressive movement, as an outgrowth of understandable dislike of cruel Israeli policies towards Palestinians.

I hope that exchange does not reflect any of those undercurrents.

[Anonymous]

Jews are only going to support Black people if there’s something in it for them. Either money, or power, or something else. That’s just a fact of life, an everybody knows it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:Jews are only going to support Black people if there’s something in it for them. Either money, or power, or something else. That’s just a fact of life, an everybody knows it.

Just in case you were wondering why Silverman is concerned abut anti-Semitism.