Taking on Debt for Law School

[Anonymous]

Go to graduate business school (MBA) preferably top 5 program. Paid loans off in 1st year on Wall Street.

[Anonymous]

If your DC is set on being a lawyer and understands what that entails, sure. I wouldn't do it to go to a crappy law school but unless he or she gets stellar LSAT scores and thus scores a scholarship, some debt is inevitable.

My biggest piece of advice is to make sure your child understands what he or she is getting into with the financial commitment. Especially for people who go straight through from undergrad, it can seem a bit like funny money with the guarantee of big bucks on the other side of the bar exam. There are so many variables at play and that scenario just isn't reality.

I have six-figure debt and make $150k/year in DC. My life is great. Do I have the financial freedom of my friends whose parents paid for law school or who work in big law? Nope. But I like my job, I own my home, and I am able to pay for childcare for my 2 small kids. I am on an income-based repayment plan and try to think of my loans as just another bill rather than getting all panicked about it. It is what it is, and I took it on with my eyes wide open. I don't have regrets but if my kids want to go to law school, I will make sure they fully understand what they are getting into.

[Anonymous]

It's an investment in your future. I would do it (and did do it) if you can get to a top law school and are confident in your academic abilities.

[Anonymous]

My DH and I did it many years ago now. Financed all of attending top 10 law school then went to big law. Paid off loans within a few years by living on a fraction of what we were earning. Loans all gone before we had first kid and incomes have been high even after leaving big law. For the young lawyers I work with today, the same scenario is basically true if you can get the big law job. Our associates start at $155k or so and get pretty big raises and bonuses those first few years. Some of the bonuses are over $50k, so if you have one of those for a couple of years you can really pay down the loans fast. As I advise people who are thinking about law school, I always ask what you want to do with your degree. If you want big law firm, you need to go to the best possible school and work hard because you need to have good grades and ranking. You will not get hired in big law from a lesser school unless you are absolutely the top of the class and even then it is iffy. On the other hand, if you want to do government or something else, you should go wherever you can go for free or nearly free that is near where you want to practice. (If you can't get a mid-tier school to let you go for free or nearly free then you should reconsider law school). In this area, that means if you want big law, go to Georgetown or (in some fields) GW. If you want to go to the DAs office, go to George Mason, American, UMd (again, only if cheap for you). If you want public service, Catholic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is there a T14 and not, say, a T15 or T20? Fourteen seems like a weird number.

Because the top 14 have been ranked in the top 14 for the last 20 years. Those ranked 15-25 have experienced changes in their rankings frequently.

[Anonymous]

I'd encourage everyone to take time off between college and law school and work in a legal field in some way or gain another skill that is useful for legal practice.

I didn't do this and I wish I'd been able to take some time and learn Spanish or live somewhere random because that's hard to do after law school with so much more debt.

I graduated from a T14 in 2009 and went into public interest. Pay was low in comparison to my debt (though debt was lower than 145k because of scholarships, teaching assistantships, a summer at a big law firm, and some other things). Loan forgiveness from my law school and the DC Bar Foundation helped me pay it off. Then I went to a policy job in a trade association related to my public interest job and basically doubled my salary (still about 50% lower than a first-year associate at a big firm), enabling me to pay off the loans about 7 years after graduation.

I'm glad I went to law school because I made friends there, found it interesting, and my job requires it. The degree could help me with other work I'd be happy to do as well. But I'm sure there are jobs I would have been ok with that didn't require law school and I could have done a cheaper/shorter grad program like an MPP or an MBA.

Most importantly, I think your kid needs to decide for himself what to do. You decide what if anything you're willing to contribute for grad school or similar post-grad training and your kid decides how and when and whether to use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's an investment in your future. I would do it (and did do it) if you can get to a top law school and are confident in your academic abilities.

It also depends on if you can handle a big law job. If you decide you can't, it doesn't matter what law school you went to and how great your grades were.

[Anonymous]

Retired Biglaw partner here. If your kid can get into a T14 he'd be fine taking on debt. Virtually anyone who graduates from T14 can get a Biglaw job. Maybe not at Covington or something but it doesn't matter -- they all pay the same and they all pay well.

Outside of T14 I wouldn't risk it. You just can't predict how well you're going to do in law school no matter what your LSAT tells you. And once you're out of the T14, and especially once you're out of the top 20-25, you really do need top grades for the big jobs.

Your son needs to remember, though, that Biglaw sucks. Your colleagues suck, they're boring and self-centered AF, your clients are generally evil and also suck, and your opposing counsel also suck. Basically all you're really doing is helping big companies push around huge sums of money. You rarely go to trial, too risky for shareholders, so you spends years doing all kinds of tedious and meaningless pretrial stuff and then settle. And the hours are terrible and you have no life.

There's a reason they pay so much.

I've never met a lawyer who started in Biglaw and moved on to something else and regretted it. Seriously, not one time. That tells me a whole lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there a T14 and not, say, a T15 or T20? Fourteen seems like a weird number.

Because the top 14 have been ranked in the top 14 for the last 20 years. Those ranked 15-25 have experienced changes in their rankings frequently.

There is a big gap between 14 and 15, that's why.

[Anonymous]

See if they even get in. Then, it becomes a question.

Currently there is nothing to decide.

[Anonymous]

OP are you aware that Duke and other law schools are now $103K a year x 3 years can mean over $300K in debt?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is there a T14 and not, say, a T15 or T20? Fourteen seems like a weird number.

Because the top 14 have been ranked in the top 14 for the last 20 years. Those ranked 15-25 have experienced changes in their rankings frequently.

There is a big gap between 14 and 15, that's why.

That's what T14 grads like to think. I mean, just ask one.

[Anonymous]

Depends where you go. My relative took on massive debt and ended up working a $45k/year lawyer job in Ohio. Not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Do you even want to be a lawyer? Most lawyers I know hate their jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this rational today? I see the average JD graduates with $145K of debt. Does this make sense outside of the the T14 or even for them? Have an undergraduate sophomore considering law school. We can help pay maybe 1/3 of the COA. Help us out all you attorneys on this board. What do you think?

Not a good investment at this time.