Middle school magnet and MAP scores

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, my kid had a huge jump in the one she took today but her score was already 98th percentile in Fall, was just wondering if it might help.

What is the appeals process out of interest?

98th percentile is too low.

It needs consistently in the 99% depending on other factors. That's a great jump but so few kids are accepted and many already are in the magnet starting in 4th that her chances are slim. They probably have the decisions made by now.

What difference does it make if the kids are already in the magnet? They are different programs — I thought one had no bearing on the other? We moved to MCPS this year so my kid was excluded from the magnet and never considered although I’m certain she would have been accepted back in 3rd grade (she was a major outlier academically back then)

They aren't going to kick magnet kids out if they are in one and doing well for your precious genius. There are very few magnet slots.

I don’t know what you’re talking about. They are totally different programs. The kids in the Elementary magnets (CES) get no priority for the Ms magnet. My kid is in an elementary magnet and I’m sure he won’t get in to the MS magnet. Last year just about no one got in from our CES.

This was true for DC last year but several kids got in from CES on appeal. Initially almost no one from our CES got in - interestingly several kids we know that were accepted to magnets initially had been waitlisted for CES. It was like MCPS was saying they would meet kids needs for grade 4/5 or for middle school, but not both. But after appeals, I think at least 40% of CES kids at our school ended up at a magnet, not too different from previous years. Appeals is the new application process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, my kid had a huge jump in the one she took today but her score was already 98th percentile in Fall, was just wondering if it might help.

What is the appeals process out of interest?

98th percentile is too low.

Well, gee, thanks, did you read the part about where I said she had a huge jump today? (I can spell that out for you if you’d like but it means way above 99th which is where she’s been at since K.) But thanks for your superior insight. Strangely kids I knew who got in last year had scored significantly below that but, whatever, I’ll just listen to you, wise one.

Stop. I've been in your shoes, so I'm just telling you how it is. If you appeal with Winter scores, they might move your kid from reject to waitlist as a gesture, and then never take her off the waitlist. Now that MCPS has opened the magnets seats to ALL 5th graders, which is a good thing, kids need to have more than 99th percentile MAPs and very high entrance exam scores.

My 99th+ percentile kid dances rings around my 98th percentile kid. Most non-scientists don't understand this, but "slight" differences at the leading edge translate to very different IQ scores. A 99.1th percentile student is not nearly as highly functioning as a 99.9th percentile student, whereas there is virtually no functional difference between the 50.0 and 50.8 percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, my kid had a huge jump in the one she took today but her score was already 98th percentile in Fall, was just wondering if it might help.

What is the appeals process out of interest?

98th percentile is too low.

Well, gee, thanks, did you read the part about where I said she had a huge jump today? (I can spell that out for you if you’d like but it means way above 99th which is where she’s been at since K.) But thanks for your superior insight. Strangely kids I knew who got in last year had scored significantly below that but, whatever, I’ll just listen to you, wise one.

Stop. I've been in your shoes, so I'm just telling you how it is. If you appeal with Winter scores, they might move your kid from reject to waitlist as a gesture, and then never take her off the waitlist. Now that MCPS has opened the magnets seats to ALL 5th graders, which is a good thing, kids need to have more than 99th percentile MAPs and very high entrance exam scores.

My 99th+ percentile kid dances rings around my 98th percentile kid. Most non-scientists don't understand this, but "slight" differences at the leading edge translate to very different IQ scores. A 99.1th percentile student is not nearly as highly functioning as a 99.9th percentile student, whereas there is virtually no functional difference between the 50.0 and 50.8 percentile.

That is true for IQ tests but all of the tests used by MCPS state they are not designed , and should not be used, to distinguish those in the top percentile from one another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, my kid had a huge jump in the one she took today but her score was already 98th percentile in Fall, was just wondering if it might help.

What is the appeals process out of interest?

98th percentile is too low.

Well, gee, thanks, did you read the part about where I said she had a huge jump today? (I can spell that out for you if you’d like but it means way above 99th which is where she’s been at since K.) But thanks for your superior insight. Strangely kids I knew who got in last year had scored significantly below that but, whatever, I’ll just listen to you, wise one.

Stop. I've been in your shoes, so I'm just telling you how it is. If you appeal with Winter scores, they might move your kid from reject to waitlist as a gesture, and then never take her off the waitlist. Now that MCPS has opened the magnets seats to ALL 5th graders, which is a good thing, kids need to have more than 99th percentile MAPs and very high entrance exam scores.

My 99th+ percentile kid dances rings around my 98th percentile kid. Most non-scientists don't understand this, but "slight" differences at the leading edge translate to very different IQ scores. A 99.1th percentile student is not nearly as highly functioning as a 99.9th percentile student, whereas there is virtually no functional difference between the 50.0 and 50.8 percentile.

That is true for IQ tests but all of the tests used by MCPS state they are not designed , and should not be used, to distinguish those in the top percentile from one another.

Exactly and there’s no statistical difference between 98.5 and 99.1 percent in MAP, esp for kids why fluctuate between 98 and high 99 percentile. The MAP scores are offered in three point range anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Almost all of Clemente Math Sci kids are above 99 %ile. The score matters. Many kids are 280+ and some are above 300+. 99%ile is around 250s or 260s.

Good for them! I guess they won’t get into the magnet then because they have a huge cohort of similar kids where they are. Where my kid is, 99th percentile means scores better than 99 other kids out of 100 and is clearly way ahead of the rest of the class in 5/6 math, for example. Kid is bored bored bored unfortunately. Middle school, magnet or not, is our only hope at this point. MCPS has been one huge disappointment so far.

MCPS is disappointing but that's nothing new. You can always go private.

Always? And who's going to foot the tuition bill? I don't know about you but we don't have 50K a year just laying around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, my kid had a huge jump in the one she took today but her score was already 98th percentile in Fall, was just wondering if it might help.

What is the appeals process out of interest?

98th percentile is too low.

Well, gee, thanks, did you read the part about where I said she had a huge jump today? (I can spell that out for you if you’d like but it means way above 99th which is where she’s been at since K.) But thanks for your superior insight. Strangely kids I knew who got in last year had scored significantly below that but, whatever, I’ll just listen to you, wise one.

Stop. I've been in your shoes, so I'm just telling you how it is. If you appeal with Winter scores, they might move your kid from reject to waitlist as a gesture, and then never take her off the waitlist. Now that MCPS has opened the magnets seats to ALL 5th graders, which is a good thing, kids need to have more than 99th percentile MAPs and very high entrance exam scores.

My 99th+ percentile kid dances rings around my 98th percentile kid. Most non-scientists don't understand this, but "slight" differences at the leading edge translate to very different IQ scores. A 99.1th percentile student is not nearly as highly functioning as a 99.9th percentile student, whereas there is virtually no functional difference between the 50.0 and 50.8 percentile.

That is true for IQ tests but all of the tests used by MCPS state they are not designed , and should not be used, to distinguish those in the top percentile from one another.

Exactly and there’s no statistical difference between 98.5 and 99.1 percent in MAP, esp for kids why fluctuate between 98 and high 99 percentile. The MAP scores are offered in three point range anyway.

Wrong on both counts, very wrong indeed! The entire point of magnet schools is to give seats to the most gifted students, not to offer a seat lottery to the top 1%. Therefore MCPS should, and does, through the magnet middle school Advanced Ravens Matrices test, specifically distinguish between highly achieving students. However, MCPS then screws it up by adding a murky cohort-cough-diversity criteria, which should be illegal because it's not transparent. If they want to add a non-academic filter, fine, but at least make the exact formula public (it's not exact, it's very subjective, and that's why they won't).

My 99th+ percentiler's MAP comes out like this: 99-99-99. Meaning that she is within the 99th percentile range.
My other kid's score is usually: 97-98-99. Meaning that he is in the 97th to 99th bracket, but not above 99th.
There is a significant mathematical difference between those two outcomes.
And through observation, I see the functionality difference at home and at school. Also, one is in a magnet, the other was wait-listed after appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks, my kid had a huge jump in the one she took today but her score was already 98th percentile in Fall, was just wondering if it might help.

What is the appeals process out of interest?

98th percentile is too low.

Well, gee, thanks, did you read the part about where I said she had a huge jump today? (I can spell that out for you if you’d like but it means way above 99th which is where she’s been at since K.) But thanks for your superior insight. Strangely kids I knew who got in last year had scored significantly below that but, whatever, I’ll just listen to you, wise one.

Stop. I've been in your shoes, so I'm just telling you how it is. If you appeal with Winter scores, they might move your kid from reject to waitlist as a gesture, and then never take her off the waitlist. Now that MCPS has opened the magnets seats to ALL 5th graders, which is a good thing, kids need to have more than 99th percentile MAPs and very high entrance exam scores.

My 99th+ percentile kid dances rings around my 98th percentile kid. Most non-scientists don't understand this, but "slight" differences at the leading edge translate to very different IQ scores. A 99.1th percentile student is not nearly as highly functioning as a 99.9th percentile student, whereas there is virtually no functional difference between the 50.0 and 50.8 percentile.

That is true for IQ tests but all of the tests used by MCPS state they are not designed , and should not be used, to distinguish those in the top percentile from one another.

Exactly and there’s no statistical difference between 98.5 and 99.1 percent in MAP, esp for kids why fluctuate between 98 and high 99 percentile. The MAP scores are offered in three point range anyway.

Wrong on both counts, very wrong indeed! The entire point of magnet schools is to give seats to the most gifted students, not to offer a seat lottery to the top 1%. Therefore MCPS should, and does, through the magnet middle school Advanced Ravens Matrices test, specifically distinguish between highly achieving students. However, MCPS then screws it up by adding a murky cohort-cough-diversity criteria, which should be illegal because it's not transparent. If they want to add a non-academic filter, fine, but at least make the exact formula public (it's not exact, it's very subjective, and that's why they won't).

My 99th+ percentiler's MAP comes out like this: 99-99-99. Meaning that she is within the 99th percentile range.
My other kid's score is usually: 97-98-99. Meaning that he is in the 97th to 99th bracket, but not above 99th.
There is a significant mathematical difference between those two outcomes.
And through observation, I see the functionality difference at home and at school. Also, one is in a magnet, the other was wait-listed after appeal.

There was no "Advanced Ravens Matrices" test this year, I have no idea how you came up with that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My 99th+ percentiler's MAP comes out like this: 99-99-99. Meaning that she is within the 99th percentile range.
My other kid's score is usually: 97-98-99. Meaning that he is in the 97th to 99th bracket, but not above 99th.
There is a significant mathematical difference between those two outcomes.
And through observation, I see the functionality difference at home and at school. Also, one is in a magnet, the other was wait-listed after appeal.

There’s a lot of variation in the 99-99-99 band too. My DC dropped 10 points between last spring and this fall and stayed in the 99-99-99 band. And even the higher score was nowhere near the 300+ people claim their magnet kids are getting on MAP-M.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My 99th+ percentiler's MAP comes out like this: 99-99-99. Meaning that she is within the 99th percentile range.
My other kid's score is usually: 97-98-99. Meaning that he is in the 97th to 99th bracket, but not above 99th.
There is a significant mathematical difference between those two outcomes.
And through observation, I see the functionality difference at home and at school. Also, one is in a magnet, the other was wait-listed after appeal.

There’s a lot of variation in the 99-99-99 band too. My DC dropped 10 points between last spring and this fall and stayed in the 99-99-99 band. And even the higher score was nowhere near the 300+ people claim their magnet kids are getting on MAP-M.

Me again.

5th grade fall, 97th %ile is a 239 and 99th is 246. Not much difference between 239 and 246, but big difference between 246 and 300, even though both are 99th %ile.

[Anonymous]

High standard deviations (4+) are more important than cracking the 99% percentile. They look at that.

[Anonymous]

Why do people (or is it the same person) keep saying "above the 99th percentile"? There is no ABOVE the 99th percentile...that's not how percentiles work. There is a fairly wide range of raw scores within the 99th percentile, but there is no going above it. Come on, people. It doesn't elevate your kid to exaggeratedly say untrue stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why do people (or is it the same person) keep saying "above the 99th percentile"? There is no ABOVE the 99th percentile...that's not how percentiles work. There is a fairly wide range of raw scores within the 99th percentile, but there is no going above it. Come on, people. It doesn't elevate your kid to exaggeratedly say untrue stuff.

Decimals are hard. 99.3% is above 99.1%. 99.9995 is a unicorn. Stop working with integers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people (or is it the same person) keep saying "above the 99th percentile"? There is no ABOVE the 99th percentile...that's not how percentiles work. There is a fairly wide range of raw scores within the 99th percentile, but there is no going above it. Come on, people. It doesn't elevate your kid to exaggeratedly say untrue stuff.

Decimals are hard. 99.3% is above 99.1%. 99.9995 is a unicorn. Stop working with integers.

Very impressed you know what an integer is! But it's all still within the 99th percentile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why do people (or is it the same person) keep saying "above the 99th percentile"? There is no ABOVE the 99th percentile...that's not how percentiles work. There is a fairly wide range of raw scores within the 99th percentile, but there is no going above it. Come on, people. It doesn't elevate your kid to exaggeratedly say untrue stuff.

Decimals are hard. 99.3% is above 99.1%. 99.9995 is a unicorn. Stop working with integers.

This debate and speculation is just born of a ton of anxiety.

Here's what we know:

Do most kids at ms magnets have scores that are a statistical anomaly? Yes.

Do all kids with scores that are statistical anomalies get in? No.

Do kids get in with scores in the 96th, 97th, 98th percentile, or lower? Yes, sure. Some do.

What does all this mean for YOUR kid? No amount of speculation or hand wringing or DCUM detective work will figure it out. So relax and resolve to appeal if you are dead set on magnet-or-else. I'd recommend at least exploring the enriched classes (AIM and HIGH if your school offers these), but it sounds like many people are't able to grasp their snowflake not being a chosen one.

Will your kid be ok if you just chill and stop the nonsense? Yes, probably.

[Anonymous]

My kid's map-m jumped from 277 in fall to 296 in winter. Will definitely appeal use this as part of the evidence if not accepted. I know some ppl did it last year and succeeded so definitely worth a try and tell your kid to treat this round seriously.