Of counsel in Biglaw dc salary range

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rude much? Maybe OP was given the talk because her barely top 100 firm isn’t doing very well. Or maybe it’s because all the male partners don’t see women as viable candidates. Or for some other reason unrelated to her skills. She may have something to offer a firm in need. She should talk to a recruiter.

You don't get passed over for partner at a barely top 100 Cleveland firm then move to a DC BigLaw firm as of counsel. It doesn't happen ever, I dare say, especially with no portable business.

You do realize that “of counsel” doesn’t mean the same thing at every firm, right?

We're not talking about "every firm." OP specifically asked about BigLaw DC of counsel. Ain't gonna happen.

If you look toward the bottom of the Vault 100 rather than the top, you can find opportunities. But as I said above, it also depends heavily on specialty. General litigators are a dime a dozen, and the only alternative for them is likely to be staff or contract attorney. If OP has more of a niche specialty that’s harder to recruit, that can open different doors because those practices/firms are more likely to be open to alternative candidates to fill a need if the talent is there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am sorry but you have a total misconception of what the of counsel position is in big law DC. Typically it is for associates who have spent most of their careers in the firm, yet for one reason or another the firm isn’t prepared to make them a partner. Or, it’s for lawyers who join the firm from the government with the expectation that within a couple years you will be considered for partner. Unless you are highly specialized and fill a real void for a particular firm, these jobs are not normally available to senior associates from Cleveland law firms who have no business and were “given the talk.” You’re dreaming.

This depends heavily on the firm and specialty.

Yes, but this is generally the case for DC firms. OP needs to bring in some kind of DC-centric specialty/niche to really get in as "Of Counsel". Depending on experience, I'd recommend OP to look into in-house jobs as well.

For the top-rated mega-firms, yes. But there are a ton of “smaller” (<250 attorneys) and boutique firms that can provide better opportunities for someone who isn’t on the traditional associate-to-partner up-or-out pipeline,

Sure but that's not biglaw, which is what op explicitly asked about. Nobody's saying she can't be a lawyer at a DC firm. She's just not going to be of counsel at a biglaw firm.

[Anonymous]

I recommend Darin Morgan for DC headhunters (and I’ve seen other DCUMers praise him). PPs are right that a Counsel position at a firm is a long shot but you never know. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am sorry but you have a total misconception of what the of counsel position is in big law DC. Typically it is for associates who have spent most of their careers in the firm, yet for one reason or another the firm isn’t prepared to make them a partner. Or, it’s for lawyers who join the firm from the government with the expectation that within a couple years you will be considered for partner. Unless you are highly specialized and fill a real void for a particular firm, these jobs are not normally available to senior associates from Cleveland law firms who have no business and were “given the talk.” You’re dreaming.

This depends heavily on the firm and specialty.

Yes, but this is generally the case for DC firms. OP needs to bring in some kind of DC-centric specialty/niche to really get in as "Of Counsel". Depending on experience, I'd recommend OP to look into in-house jobs as well.

For the top-rated mega-firms, yes. But there are a ton of “smaller” (<250 attorneys) and boutique firms that can provide better opportunities for someone who isn’t on the traditional associate-to-partner up-or-out pipeline,

Sure but that's not biglaw, which is what op explicitly asked about. Nobody's saying she can't be a lawyer at a DC firm. She's just not going to be of counsel at a biglaw firm.

Even the bottom of the Vault 100 is biglaw.

[Anonymous]

I don't know why the OP is concerned about salary range - BEFORE actually finding an Of Counsel position. No law firm is going to ask what you want in compensation as an Of Counsel until it wants to hire you.

You've been given the talk. That puts you in a hole with most law decent-sized DC firms, BIGLAW or otherwise. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. You have to come to grips with this, accept it, and have a very clear answer for potential law firm employers. It's the elephant in the room that they won't ignore.

With that unpleasantness out of the way, you need to give firms a reason to hire you. So far, you haven't given one. Your first step in finding an Of Counsel role is to identify what you can offer, and develop a business plan for turning that skill set/experience into $$$$. This doesn't mean you need to go out and get clients. Rather, you need to show how you will fit with the firm's business. Let's say that you have a great deal of experience defending against large class actions involving equipment manufacturer recalls (not a far throw for someone from Ohio). If you identify DC firms that do similar work, you can get your foot in the door if the firm has excess work that isn't being done (i.e. billed and collected - fees left on the table).

[Anonymous]

"Rude much? Maybe OP was given the talk because her barely top 100 firm isn’t doing very well. Or maybe it’s because all the male partners don’t see women as viable candidates. Or for some other reason unrelated to her skills. She may have something to offer a firm in need. She should talk to a recruiter.

You don't get passed over for partner at a barely top 100 Cleveland firm then move to a DC BigLaw firm as of counsel. It doesn't happen ever, I dare say, especially with no portable business."

Oh, well, it happened to me (except for the Cleveland part). Do you why? Because the decision had nothing to do with my skills or abilities. It had to do with the fact that I had a baby and the firm didn't believe new moms could be partners. Of course, the guy they did promote ending up failing badly - couldn't do business development to save his life, couldn't get any associates or support staff to do work for him because he was such a jerk, and clients didn't return to him for new work because he wasn't that great. So he ended up slinking off into some b.s. nonprofit policy job, while I moved on to a higher ranked firm.

Are you a white male, by any chance? Do you have no clue that firms can make bad decisions about the quality and character of the people they hire and promote, oftentimes because of implicit bias?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Rude much? Maybe OP was given the talk because her barely top 100 firm isn’t doing very well. Or maybe it’s because all the male partners don’t see women as viable candidates. Or for some other reason unrelated to her skills. She may have something to offer a firm in need. She should talk to a recruiter.

You don't get passed over for partner at a barely top 100 Cleveland firm then move to a DC BigLaw firm as of counsel. It doesn't happen ever, I dare say, especially with no portable business."

Oh, well, it happened to me (except for the Cleveland part). Do you why? Because the decision had nothing to do with my skills or abilities. It had to do with the fact that I had a baby and the firm didn't believe new moms could be partners. Of course, the guy they did promote ending up failing badly - couldn't do business development to save his life, couldn't get any associates or support staff to do work for him because he was such a jerk, and clients didn't return to him for new work because he wasn't that great. So he ended up slinking off into some b.s. nonprofit policy job, while I moved on to a higher ranked firm.

Are you a white male, by any chance? Do you have no clue that firms can make bad decisions about the quality and character of the people they hire and promote, oftentimes because of implicit bias?

You’re so bitter that you didn’t let yourself read and process what was said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am sorry but you have a total misconception of what the of counsel position is in big law DC. Typically it is for associates who have spent most of their careers in the firm, yet for one reason or another the firm isn’t prepared to make them a partner. Or, it’s for lawyers who join the firm from the government with the expectation that within a couple years you will be considered for partner. Unless you are highly specialized and fill a real void for a particular firm, these jobs are not normally available to senior associates from Cleveland law firms who have no business and were “given the talk.” You’re dreaming.

This depends heavily on the firm and specialty.

Yes, but this is generally the case for DC firms. OP needs to bring in some kind of DC-centric specialty/niche to really get in as "Of Counsel". Depending on experience, I'd recommend OP to look into in-house jobs as well.

For the top-rated mega-firms, yes. But there are a ton of “smaller” (<250 attorneys) and boutique firms that can provide better opportunities for someone who isn’t on the traditional associate-to-partner up-or-out pipeline,

Sure but that's not biglaw, which is what op explicitly asked about. Nobody's saying she can't be a lawyer at a DC firm. She's just not going to be of counsel at a biglaw firm.

I agree that based on OP's post there's doesn't sound much there for her to become of counsel in most DC-centric biglaw firms. But the surest way of finding out for her (without asking a recruiter) is to just look at whatever firm she considers high enough tier for her, narrow it by her practice/service and look at if there are Of Counsels and see what their backgrounds are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why the OP is concerned about salary range - BEFORE actually finding an Of Counsel position. No law firm is going to ask what you want in compensation as an Of Counsel until it wants to hire you.

You've been given the talk. That puts you in a hole with most law decent-sized DC firms, BIGLAW or otherwise. You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. You have to come to grips with this, accept it, and have a very clear answer for potential law firm employers. It's the elephant in the room that they won't ignore.

With that unpleasantness out of the way, you need to give firms a reason to hire you. So far, you haven't given one. Your first step in finding an Of Counsel role is to identify what you can offer, and develop a business plan for turning that skill set/experience into $$$$. This doesn't mean you need to go out and get clients. Rather, you need to show how you will fit with the firm's business. Let's say that you have a great deal of experience defending against large class actions involving equipment manufacturer recalls (not a far throw for someone from Ohio). If you identify DC firms that do similar work, you can get your foot in the door if the firm has excess work that isn't being done (i.e. billed and collected - fees left on the table).

The third paragraph has some good advice, but I disagree with the second. All the DC firms are going to know is that OP is moving from Cleveland because her DH got a good job at NIH. Period. Unless OP has been a complete disaster at the existing firm, she should be able to get some good references, and I wouldn't be surprised if a firm is willing to take a chance IF OP has any marketable skills at all (hence my agreement with the third paragraph).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rude much? Maybe OP was given the talk because her barely top 100 firm isn’t doing very well. Or maybe it’s because all the male partners don’t see women as viable candidates. Or for some other reason unrelated to her skills. She may have something to offer a firm in need. She should talk to a recruiter.

You don't get passed over for partner at a barely top 100 Cleveland firm then move to a DC BigLaw firm as of counsel. It doesn't happen ever, I dare say, especially with no portable business."

Oh, well, it happened to me (except for the Cleveland part). Do you why? Because the decision had nothing to do with my skills or abilities. It had to do with the fact that I had a baby and the firm didn't believe new moms could be partners. Of course, the guy they did promote ending up failing badly - couldn't do business development to save his life, couldn't get any associates or support staff to do work for him because he was such a jerk, and clients didn't return to him for new work because he wasn't that great. So he ended up slinking off into some b.s. nonprofit policy job, while I moved on to a higher ranked firm.

Are you a white male, by any chance? Do you have no clue that firms can make bad decisions about the quality and character of the people they hire and promote, oftentimes because of implicit bias?

It’s clear that this PP is projecting her perception of what happened to her onto the OP’s situation. The simple fact is that the OP gave us nothing to go on in order to give her hope. She got the talk from a lower firm in. 3rd tier market. Blaming what happened on gender discrimination isn’t going to help either. OP must show how she can generate revenue and not be another mouth to feed if she has any hope of landing an OF Counsel gig at a DC BIGLAW firm. Starting with a request for information focused on compensation is the wrong way to go about things - unless she has a line on a position already, in which case the advice given on an anonymous message board is worth what she pays for it...

You’re so bitter that you didn’t let yourself read and process what was said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Rude much? Maybe OP was given the talk because her barely top 100 firm isn’t doing very well. Or maybe it’s because all the male partners don’t see women as viable candidates. Or for some other reason unrelated to her skills. She may have something to offer a firm in need. She should talk to a recruiter.

You don't get passed over for partner at a barely top 100 Cleveland firm then move to a DC BigLaw firm as of counsel. It doesn't happen ever, I dare say, especially with no portable business."

Oh, well, it happened to me (except for the Cleveland part). Do you why? Because the decision had nothing to do with my skills or abilities. It had to do with the fact that I had a baby and the firm didn't believe new moms could be partners. Of course, the guy they did promote ending up failing badly - couldn't do business development to save his life, couldn't get any associates or support staff to do work for him because he was such a jerk, and clients didn't return to him for new work because he wasn't that great. So he ended up slinking off into some b.s. nonprofit policy job, while I moved on to a higher ranked firm.

Are you a white male, by any chance? Do you have no clue that firms can make bad decisions about the quality and character of the people they hire and promote, oftentimes because of implicit bias?

It’s clear that this PP is projecting her perception of what happened to her onto the OP’s situation. The simple fact is that the OP gave us nothing to go on in order to give her hope. She got the talk from a lower firm in. 3rd tier market. Blaming what happened on gender discrimination isn’t going to help either. OP must show how she can generate revenue and not be another mouth to feed if she has any hope of landing an OF Counsel gig at a DC BIGLAW firm. Starting with a request for information focused on compensation is the wrong way to go about things - unless she has a line on a position already, in which case the advice given on an anonymous message board is worth what she pays for it...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rude much? Maybe OP was given the talk because her barely top 100 firm isn’t doing very well. Or maybe it’s because all the male partners don’t see women as viable candidates. Or for some other reason unrelated to her skills. She may have something to offer a firm in need. She should talk to a recruiter.

You don't get passed over for partner at a barely top 100 Cleveland firm then move to a DC BigLaw firm as of counsel. It doesn't happen ever, I dare say, especially with no portable business."

Oh, well, it happened to me (except for the Cleveland part). Do you why? Because the decision had nothing to do with my skills or abilities. It had to do with the fact that I had a baby and the firm didn't believe new moms could be partners. Of course, the guy they did promote ending up failing badly - couldn't do business development to save his life, couldn't get any associates or support staff to do work for him because he was such a jerk, and clients didn't return to him for new work because he wasn't that great. So he ended up slinking off into some b.s. nonprofit policy job, while I moved on to a higher ranked firm.

Are you a white male, by any chance? Do you have no clue that firms can make bad decisions about the quality and character of the people they hire and promote, oftentimes because of implicit bias?

It’s clear that this PP is projecting her perception of what happened to her onto the OP’s situation. The simple fact is that the OP gave us nothing to go on in order to give her hope. She got the talk from a lower firm in. 3rd tier market. Blaming what happened on gender discrimination isn’t going to help either. OP must show how she can generate revenue and not be another mouth to feed if she has any hope of landing an OF Counsel gig at a DC BIGLAW firm. Starting with a request for information focused on compensation is the wrong way to go about things - unless she has a line on a position already, in which case the advice given on an anonymous message board is worth what she pays for it...

The idea of OP getting an of counsel position seems to make you really angry. Why is that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I am sorry but you have a total misconception of what the of counsel position is in big law DC. Typically it is for associates who have spent most of their careers in the firm, yet for one reason or another the firm isn’t prepared to make them a partner. Or, it’s for lawyers who join the firm from the government with the expectation that within a couple years you will be considered for partner. Unless you are highly specialized and fill a real void for a particular firm, these jobs are not normally available to senior associates from Cleveland law firms who have no business and were “given the talk.” You’re dreaming.

I agree with this with the caveat that Cleveland is a very significant and respected legal market (Jones Day and all). So no need to be a weird snob. That said, yes, this is pure fantasy—laughably absurd. A zillion people are chasing these unicorn jobs. .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Rude much? Maybe OP was given the talk because her barely top 100 firm isn’t doing very well. Or maybe it’s because all the male partners don’t see women as viable candidates. Or for some other reason unrelated to her skills. She may have something to offer a firm in need. She should talk to a recruiter.

You don't get passed over for partner at a barely top 100 Cleveland firm then move to a DC BigLaw firm as of counsel. It doesn't happen ever, I dare say, especially with no portable business."

Oh, well, it happened to me (except for the Cleveland part). Do you why? Because the decision had nothing to do with my skills or abilities. It had to do with the fact that I had a baby and the firm didn't believe new moms could be partners. Of course, the guy they did promote ending up failing badly - couldn't do business development to save his life, couldn't get any associates or support staff to do work for him because he was such a jerk, and clients didn't return to him for new work because he wasn't that great. So he ended up slinking off into some b.s. nonprofit policy job, while I moved on to a higher ranked firm.

Are you a white male, by any chance? Do you have no clue that firms can make bad decisions about the quality and character of the people they hire and promote, oftentimes because of implicit bias?

It’s clear that this PP is projecting her perception of what happened to her onto the OP’s situation. The simple fact is that the OP gave us nothing to go on in order to give her hope. She got the talk from a lower firm in. 3rd tier market. Blaming what happened on gender discrimination isn’t going to help either. OP must show how she can generate revenue and not be another mouth to feed if she has any hope of landing an OF Counsel gig at a DC BIGLAW firm. Starting with a request for information focused on compensation is the wrong way to go about things - unless she has a line on a position already, in which case the advice given on an anonymous message board is worth what she pays for it...

The idea of OP getting an of counsel position seems to make you really angry. Why is that?

DP. Jealousy, probably. But the poster isn’t wrong about the harsh realities and the extremely low chance this person has of getting such a job. Maybe with an intellectual property background?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I am sorry but you have a total misconception of what the of counsel position is in big law DC. Typically it is for associates who have spent most of their careers in the firm, yet for one reason or another the firm isn’t prepared to make them a partner. Or, it’s for lawyers who join the firm from the government with the expectation that within a couple years you will be considered for partner. Unless you are highly specialized and fill a real void for a particular firm, these jobs are not normally available to senior associates from Cleveland law firms who have no business and were “given the talk.” You’re dreaming.

Sadly all true. Occasionally someone from government but they have to have a marketable portfolio.

Like what?