The Black Sheep Liberal of the Family, Back in the Conservative Wolf Den on Thanksgiving

[Anonymous]

certain things are racist and should be off limits - but having a healthy discussion on race is not always racist but is someones perceived that way by the listener who disgrees politically. i.e., debating affirmative action or debating the long-term effectiveness of the nanny state.

I have a black friend who always uses the N word. I told him that was racist and I didn't want my children to hear it, he said he can say it because he is black ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:certain things are racist and should be off limits - but having a healthy discussion on race is not always racist but is someones perceived that way by the listener who disgrees politically. i.e., debating affirmative action or debating the long-term effectiveness of the nanny state.

I have a black friend who always uses the N word. I told him that was racist and I didn't want my children to hear it, he said he can say it because he is black ...

A black person saying the "n" word -- might or might not be racist -- but it's certainly not polite.

[Anonymous]

I am a liberal pretty steeped in church and family communities of conservatives. For the most part, I do not engage. It's not condoning what they say or agreeing with what they say. It's tuning them out. Because even if I did argue with them, it would just end up being emotionally tiring and nobody's minds would be changed. I know these people. They wouldn't be persuaded otherwise. Some battles are not worth fighting, and family political views are one of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:certain things are racist and should be off limits - but having a healthy discussion on race is not always racist but is someones perceived that way by the listener who disgrees politically. i.e., debating affirmative action or debating the long-term effectiveness of the nanny state.

I have a black friend who always uses the N word. I told him that was racist and I didn't want my children to hear it, he said he can say it because he is black ...

A black person saying the "n" word -- might or might not be racist -- but it's certainly not polite.

I would also tell my friend here (and I'm assuming the PP isn't black herself) that my children aren't going to understand the difference. By him using that word, my children are going to think it's okay. For the same reason I try not to curse in front of them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:certain things are racist and should be off limits - but having a healthy discussion on race is not always racist but is someones perceived that way by the listener who disgrees politically. i.e., debating affirmative action or debating the long-term effectiveness of the nanny state.

I have a black friend who always uses the N word. I told him that was racist and I didn't want my children to hear it, he said he can say it because he is black ...

A black person saying the "n" word -- might or might not be racist -- but it's certainly not polite.

I would also tell my friend here (and I'm assuming the PP isn't black herself) that my children aren't going to understand the difference. By him using that word, my children are going to think it's okay. For the same reason I try not to curse in front of them.

Why's it ok for an AA to use the N word and then get mad when a non-AA uses it? Doesn't using it just perpetuate the idea that it's somehow ok to use that word? That would like to referring to oneself by some derogatory term and then getting upset when someone else referred to you by the very term you used for yourself.

[Anonymous]

I think the N word should be off limits to all if it is THAT bad of a word that using it gets you in such trouble. So I don't need to be humming a Kanye song without realzing I am saying the N word over and over again.

It is hypocritical. Further, what is the litmus test for who can say it? 1/4 black ok, but 1/8 not ok? just stupid.

[Anonymous]

My husband and I have been the only liberals at family gathering for many years now. I'll share my views if I am asked directly, always with the attitude that I don't care if anyone agrees or disagrees. I'm not getting into a debate. I'm too busy enjoying the fatting food to let the discussion ruin my holiday. Luckily, years ago my mother hushed the racist discussion by saying "Stop, if we keep talking like this my daughter won't come home anymore."

I do remove my children from the room, and even from the house, if the discussion turns ugly (my family is a pack of bigots). I don't say a word to them, just talk pleasantly to my kids. My relatives get embarrassed after that so then they try to behave.

[Anonymous]

My psycho ass of an uncle Chuck once started a Thanksgiving topic of discussion with something along the lines of "Ragheads are infiltrating our nation." I just about threw my plate of turkey at him, but at the time was younger and less aggressive and settled on a disbelieving glare. Fortunately my father (Asshole Uncle Chuck's brother) changed the subject and did not engage. I was *thrilled* when my father and his brothers were estranged for a period of about 7 years, but unfortunately family fences have been mended and full fledged family dinner is planned this year. I do not want to attend, but I will because I care about my dad.

This year if A.U.C. starts with his hate speech, I will start with the politest effort at shutting him down - something along the lines of "A.U.C., surely we can find something else to talk about. Who is following the [insert sports team of choice] this year? Great game last weekend." If he persists (and he's enough of an asshole that he really likes to try to engage), I'll flat out tell him that his hate speech is inappropriate outside of a neo-nazi meeting, so I'd appreciate it if he'd shut up and move on. I know this will cause problems, but I have had it with this guy. He is evil incarnate.

For my other uncles, who are still racists (but, if you can believe it, in more of an ignorant versus truly malicious way), I will say something along the lines of "Uncle - if this is the kind of language/discussion you'd have in front of your pastor or your boss, go ahead and use it in front of my kids. If not, please watch what you're saying. Surely you can find other things to talk about. It is Thanksgiving, and I for one would like to concentrate on the blessings in my life."

Good luck. I *hate* family holidays with my dad's family for just this reason. Yuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My psycho ass of an uncle Chuck once started a Thanksgiving topic of discussion with something along the lines of "Ragheads are infiltrating our nation." I just about threw my plate of turkey at him, but at the time was younger and less aggressive and settled on a disbelieving glare. Fortunately my father (Asshole Uncle Chuck's brother) changed the subject and did not engage. I was *thrilled* when my father and his brothers were estranged for a period of about 7 years, but unfortunately family fences have been mended and full fledged family dinner is planned this year. I do not want to attend, but I will because I care about my dad.

This year if A.U.C. starts with his hate speech, I will start with the politest effort at shutting him down - something along the lines of "A.U.C., surely we can find something else to talk about. Who is following the [insert sports team of choice] this year? Great game last weekend." If he persists (and he's enough of an asshole that he really likes to try to engage), I'll flat out tell him that his hate speech is inappropriate outside of a neo-nazi meeting, so I'd appreciate it if he'd shut up and move on. I know this will cause problems, but I have had it with this guy. He is evil incarnate.

For my other uncles, who are still racists (but, if you can believe it, in more of an ignorant versus truly malicious way), I will say something along the lines of "Uncle - if this is the kind of language/discussion you'd have in front of your pastor or your boss, go ahead and use it in front of my kids. If not, please watch what you're saying. Surely you can find other things to talk about. It is Thanksgiving, and I for one would like to concentrate on the blessings in my life."

Good luck. I *hate* family holidays with my dad's family for just this reason. Yuck.

Oh, I love this story. Please keep us posted on A.U.C. and how he behaves this Thanksgiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:certain things are racist and should be off limits - but having a healthy discussion on race is not always racist but is someones perceived that way by the listener who disgrees politically. i.e., debating affirmative action or debating the long-term effectiveness of the nanny state.

I have a black friend who always uses the N word. I told him that was racist and I didn't want my children to hear it, he said he can say it because he is black ...

A black person saying the "n" word -- might or might not be racist -- but it's certainly not polite.

I would also tell my friend here (and I'm assuming the PP isn't black herself) that my children aren't going to understand the difference. By him using that word, my children are going to think it's okay. For the same reason I try not to curse in front of them.

Why's it ok for an AA to use the N word and then get mad when a non-AA uses it? Doesn't using it just perpetuate the idea that it's somehow ok to use that word? That would like to referring to oneself by some derogatory term and then getting upset when someone else referred to you by the very term you used for yourself.

That's precisely what I'm getting at. I could talk endless shit about my own family, but no, you don't get to. Because it's my family. By the same token, I don't get to decide what terms you use to refer to yourself. I'm white, so it's not up to me what A-As call themselves. Do I like derogatory terms? No, of course not. But it's not my place to say to an African-American, "You can't use that term." I have strong opinions on the terms and its use, but at the end of the day it's not my call. Its ugliness and hurtfulness haven't been used against me or people who look like me. In fact, quite the opposite...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My psycho ass of an uncle Chuck once started a Thanksgiving topic of discussion with something along the lines of "Ragheads are infiltrating our nation." I just about threw my plate of turkey at him, but at the time was younger and less aggressive and settled on a disbelieving glare. Fortunately my father (Asshole Uncle Chuck's brother) changed the subject and did not engage. I was *thrilled* when my father and his brothers were estranged for a period of about 7 years, but unfortunately family fences have been mended and full fledged family dinner is planned this year. I do not want to attend, but I will because I care about my dad.

This year if A.U.C. starts with his hate speech, I will start with the politest effort at shutting him down - something along the lines of "A.U.C., surely we can find something else to talk about. Who is following the [insert sports team of choice] this year? Great game last weekend." If he persists (and he's enough of an asshole that he really likes to try to engage), I'll flat out tell him that his hate speech is inappropriate outside of a neo-nazi meeting, so I'd appreciate it if he'd shut up and move on. I know this will cause problems, but I have had it with this guy. He is evil incarnate.

For my other uncles, who are still racists (but, if you can believe it, in more of an ignorant versus truly malicious way), I will say something along the lines of "Uncle - if this is the kind of language/discussion you'd have in front of your pastor or your boss, go ahead and use it in front of my kids. If not, please watch what you're saying. Surely you can find other things to talk about. It is Thanksgiving, and I for one would like to concentrate on the blessings in my life."

Good luck. I *hate* family holidays with my dad's family for just this reason. Yuck.

Oh, I love this story. Please keep us posted on A.U.C. and how he behaves this Thanksgiving.

PP here (A.U.C. is my uncle). To give you a clearer idea of how truly, deep down, to-the-core evil I think this guy is, I have told my husband (even before we had children) that I would never, ever allow A.U.C. to hold one of my children, for fear that some of his psycho hatefulness would soak into their tender baby psyches. I know, way over the top - but this guy scares me. He is super smart, and could be one of those people who talk impressionable young kids into believing all sorts of wretched (and violent) things. He is very convincing, and subtle, and again, super smart. I would not be sad if he ended up having a very short life expectancy - I don't think he has ever done anything kind for anyone, and he has spent his life being a scuzbag and terrorizing people pretty much for fun (terrible, incredibly effective emotional abuse of his family - ex-wife and kids needed lots of therapy, and are still pretty screwed up). So - to give him a Thanksgiving Day slap-down would be the least I could do. If I had homicidal tendencies, I could do the world more of a favor, but as it turns out I believe in that whole "thou shall not kill" thing. Lucky for him.

[Anonymous]

The last time I saw my FIL he got me embroiled in a heated political discussion about women not belonging in the workforce. I try to stay on innocuous topics with him, but he brings this stuff up. I decided that the next time it happens I'll just say he's entitled to his opinion, and change the topic or move on to talk to someone else. There's no way I'm going to change his mind, and I don't need to get all worked up. Besides, just knowing that it would kill him if he knew that I'm the real breadwinner in the family is enough for me. Let him think what he wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:certain things are racist and should be off limits - but having a healthy discussion on race is not always racist but is someones perceived that way by the listener who disgrees politically. i.e., debating affirmative action or debating the long-term effectiveness of the nanny state.

I have a black friend who always uses the N word. I told him that was racist and I didn't want my children to hear it, he said he can say it because he is black ...

A black person saying the "n" word -- might or might not be racist -- but it's certainly not polite.

I would also tell my friend here (and I'm assuming the PP isn't black herself) that my children aren't going to understand the difference. By him using that word, my children are going to think it's okay. For the same reason I try not to curse in front of them.

Why's it ok for an AA to use the N word and then get mad when a non-AA uses it? Doesn't using it just perpetuate the idea that it's somehow ok to use that word? That would like to referring to oneself by some derogatory term and then getting upset when someone else referred to you by the very term you used for yourself.

It's not. I am AA and several family members used to articulate that foul word in my presence. Now they do not. Somehow I have been able to make them understand the absurdness of using the word. Oh, maybe they just think I am crazy and respect me enough not to use it when I am around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here (A.U.C. is my uncle). To give you a clearer idea of how truly, deep down, to-the-core evil I think this guy is, I have told my husband (even before we had children) that I would never, ever allow A.U.C. to hold one of my children, for fear that some of his psycho hatefulness would soak into their tender baby psyches. I know, way over the top - but this guy scares me. He is super smart, and could be one of those people who talk impressionable young kids into believing all sorts of wretched (and violent) things. He is very convincing, and subtle, and again, super smart. I would not be sad if he ended up having a very short life expectancy - I don't think he has ever done anything kind for anyone, and he has spent his life being a scuzbag and terrorizing people pretty much for fun (terrible, incredibly effective emotional abuse of his family - ex-wife and kids needed lots of therapy, and are still pretty screwed up). So - to give him a Thanksgiving Day slap-down would be the least I could do. If I had homicidal tendencies, I could do the world more of a favor, but as it turns out I believe in that whole "thou shall not kill" thing. Lucky for him.

Whew. I think you'd be justified in saying you won't attend gatherings if he's going to be there. Really.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP here (A.U.C. is my uncle). To give you a clearer idea of how truly, deep down, to-the-core evil I think this guy is, I have told my husband (even before we had children) that I would never, ever allow A.U.C. to hold one of my children, for fear that some of his psycho hatefulness would soak into their tender baby psyches. I know, way over the top - but this guy scares me. He is super smart, and could be one of those people who talk impressionable young kids into believing all sorts of wretched (and violent) things. He is very convincing, and subtle, and again, super smart. I would not be sad if he ended up having a very short life expectancy - I don't think he has ever done anything kind for anyone, and he has spent his life being a scuzbag and terrorizing people pretty much for fun (terrible, incredibly effective emotional abuse of his family - ex-wife and kids needed lots of therapy, and are still pretty screwed up). So - to give him a Thanksgiving Day slap-down would be the least I could do. If I had homicidal tendencies, I could do the world more of a favor, but as it turns out I believe in that whole "thou shall not kill" thing. Lucky for him.

Whew. I think you'd be justified in saying you won't attend gatherings if he's going to be there. Really.

I agree, I would be justified in staying away - but I also feel like staying away lets him "win" because then I don't get to see my dad, and forcing my dad to choose between his brothers and his daughter is not something I want to do, because if my dad said A.U.C. wasn't invited, my other uncles would end up siding with poor, unfairly treated, always the victim A.U.C. (remember, he's very convincing) - and another family estrangement would surely ensue. My dad's parents have both died, and his siblings are his only remaining family, and it hurt him tremendously when they weren't talking to him (all because my dad had this silly moral objection to essentially stealing his dementia-suffering aunt's money - which was A.U.C.'s idea, of course). So - I will go to Thanksgiving, I will grit my teeth, and I will let the claws out as necessary. Wish me luck!