Bullying based on religion

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This also sounds like it's bordering on religious discrimination and/or has the potential to escalate to a hate crime. Is the school treating you differently than they would a Christian? Is the fact that your daughter had been targeted likely to make her the target of vandalism or worse? Not sure what religion you are, but as a Jew or a Muslim I'd be worried if I lived in certain places in the country and my kid was being targeted. I would escalate this sooner rather than later.

OP here. My thoughts exactly but I've been wondering if Im just overthinking it. My husband and I are going to discuss approaching the superintendent. The principal has offered to meet with us, but I see zero reason to do that at this point, since they just keep offering platitudes and protection for the bullies. It's truly bizarre to me.

[Anonymous]

If you know one of the moms asked for your contact info, write to the principal authorizing and requesting that he disclose your contact info to the other parent! You can say it clearly has not been successfully handled as a “school matter” and you would like the opportunity to deal with the other parents directly if they are willing, and you understand that at least one of the other parents has expressed an interest in doing so as well.

[Anonymous]

This happened to me as a kid (Muslim), when Christmas came around and I tried to politely explain that we didn't celebrate.

I told them Santa didn't exist, and explained the logical fallacy. They never bothered me again about religion.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like at least one mom wants to talk. Do you know the mom's name or the family name? Have you tried to ask around in the neighborhood? Or go to NextDoor and see if the moms' email is there? I'm not suggesting this in a creepy, stalker way but absent a PTA Directory there still must be a way for you to reach out to the other mom, who apparently also wants to speak with you.

I agree with your assessment that the superintendent sounds like the logical next step. While the school officials should not every discuss other children with you (like consequences) you do need to know what steps are being taken to keep your daughter from being bullied and harassed. And the superintendent needs to know that whatever is being done has NOT resolved the issue for your daughter.

One poster suggested that your daughter make some outrageous statements to the girls. Do NOT do this. Provoking a bully rarely works in the bullied victim's favor. Your daughter should continue to ignore, move away, and basically Gray Rock the other girls. In the meantime, for the future, you might want to read the books Queen Bees and Wannabes (Rosalind Wiseman) and Odd Girl Out (Rachel Simmons) for some insight into relational aggression by girls.

[Anonymous]

One poster suggested that your daughter make some outrageous statements to the girls. Do NOT do this. Provoking a bully rarely works in the bullied victim's favor. Your daughter should continue to ignore, move away, and basically Gray Rock the other girls. In the meantime, for the future, you might want to read the books Queen Bees and Wannabes (Rosalind Wiseman) and Odd Girl Out (Rachel Simmons) for some insight into relational aggression by girls.

Agree.

No one should be bullied, but stopping it is very difficult. You've spoken to the school. You cannot make people do what you think they should do. What does a bully want more than anything? Attention.

And, do not talk to the other parents about this--it could make it worse.

We all want to help our kids. But, the best way is to help control what your own child does--how she reacts, etc. And, help her realize that this does not reduce her value or truly have any effect on who she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This also sounds like it's bordering on religious discrimination and/or has the potential to escalate to a hate crime. Is the school treating you differently than they would a Christian? Is the fact that your daughter had been targeted likely to make her the target of vandalism or worse? Not sure what religion you are, but as a Jew or a Muslim I'd be worried if I lived in certain places in the country and my kid was being targeted. I would escalate this sooner rather than later.

OP here. My thoughts exactly but I've been wondering if Im just overthinking it. My husband and I are going to discuss approaching the superintendent. The principal has offered to meet with us, but I see zero reason to do that at this point, since they just keep offering platitudes and protection for the bullies. It's truly bizarre to me.

I'd do one last attempt with the principal. The fastest way to get action from the principal might be to have that meeting and when there, say that if there is no change by date X, you already have an appointment with the superintendent on date Y and will go ahead with that appointment. In short--threaten very clearly and calmly that you already have plans to go over the principal's head to his/her boss, if certain things are not done by a specific time.

Do not leave the meeting with the principal until you and he/she have created a written list of steps the school will take. Attach dates to each step. Immediately after the meeting, email the principal a summary of your notes from the meeting including the action steps on which you both agreed. Note that you will be calling the principal on date Z for a status update and to tell the principal how things are going, or not going Copy the email to anyone else who knows the situation: Teacher, assistant principal, school counselor.

I've seen the "I'm planning to go over your head/go outside this school" statement jar a principal into action. Worked for a friend whose son was being badly bullied.

I'd stop focusing on insisting they separate the two bullies from each other. That's s distraction from your DD's situation. I do think you're right that the two girls are egging each other on but because neither is your own child, any request from you about their interactions with each other will be dismissed--the school can and will only deal with you on whatever relates directly to your DD's interactions. So don't muddy the waters with any requests about splitting up the two bullies or you'll possibly undermine your own case. (Unfortunately. Because the two girls probably would benefit from being kept apart.)

As for talking with parents--it's your call, but I would not, and would do everything through the the (supposedly) neutral channel of the school (even if that means the school board, because the school isn't responsive). Trying to resolve this as parents, if you don't already know each other, lets the school off the hook and can also end up with parents saying your own child is the issue, or saying they'll make it stop when they can't, etc.

OP, it's near the end of the school year (unless you have year-round school?) so the school might hope that this will peter out and summer break will "fix" it for them. I do think summer can be an excellent reset for your child. But don't let the school get away with dragging their feet because school's almost over. And be certain to say in writing that your DD must not be placed in any classes next year with either bully.

Please update us here. I'm so sorry that these girls are doing this and as a Christian I'm saddened and angered by their tragically ignorant behavior.

[Anonymous]

Thank you PP^^. That was incredibly helpful.

[Anonymous]

This happened to my kid (we are not religious, religious Christian instigator kept telling my child DC was going to hell, including in the classroom, instigator got other kids involved, I found out about it because my kid finally asked me what hell was and was very upset). The school handled it better than yours and it was taken very seriously. It was handled as any bullying situation and was stopped. I wish I had advice, but wanted to just tell you you aren't alone.

Interestingly years later (middle school) my DC and the instigator are friends. Not close, but definitely friendly. The kid isn't evil or mean or anything. Just a kid who went through a bullying phase and used religion as the hook.

[Anonymous]

What state are you in? If you are in an area where most people are evangelical Christians you aren't going to get a lot of support if the principal and superintendent are also evangelical Christians. If your DD were Muslim and they were picking on her it would be different but in the minds of some teachers and administrators it can't be religious discrimination if you aren't any religion.

We moved out if DC and I am constantly amazed to realize that people care and notice if you are Christian. My husband and I are lapsed Catholics and don't attend church and now aren't religious. We recently switched our 3rd grader to a private Christian school - there are no secular private schools in our town. All of a sudden several neighbors and other people became much friendlier. He made an all star baseball team last year for the first time and every kid on the team either goes to church or this private Christian school. It was a like a club I didn't know existed. I then realized how many people in positions of power were very active in their church.

So there is a chance the principal, vice-principal and superintendent are secretly pleased these girls are trying to convince your child to become Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not quite getting the action I had hoped from 10-year-old daughter's school and wondering what others think. I'll try to be concise. FYI, this is a public school, not in the DC area (we used to live there) so I feel OK with a little bit of detail here:

1. A week and a half ago, daughter's best friends in her classroom find out she doesn't go to church. They continue questioning her, finding out she's not Christian. They jointly (two of them) decide they can't be friends with her anymore because she's not Christian.
2. They spread it around the classroom "telephone style" trying to get other kids to diss her too, saying she's a ghost worshipper, etc..
3. They continue it out to the playground, now targeting her very best friends (in other classrooms) trying to get them to not be friends with her.

I call the teacher, alert him that I'll be contacting the principal, which I do the next day. Long story short, they start a "bully investigation" and confirm DD's account, after interviewing 18 kids who were "confronted" by these two girls. They put into action a separation policy of my daughter from the girls, but don't separate the girls which I asked for.

That doesn't work. They keep ganging up on her, approaching her as a duo to try to intimidate her. I call another meeting with the principal, the vice principal who conducted the investigation, and her teacher. I said their plan isn't working, what's the next step, that I want the duo separated as well. I believe strongly that they are emboldened by one another and feed off each other. They don't care. All along the way they keep telling me that they can't say what other punishment the girls received since they're minors and it's against regulation. Whatever. I don't care as long as the punishment works to stop the behavior. All they do as a next step is promise that the girls will have to sign a "no contact contract," including my daughter. They don't follow through on it, FYI, but that's all they do.

It doesn't work. The bullying has continued, and yesterday they ganged up on her again. They followed her at lunch, and continued to sit next to her while she kept getting up and moving, saying they can sit wherever they want. I'm wondering where the hell the enforcement of this separation policy is, because they seem to have free rein to confront her when they're outside the classroom, which isn't supposed to happen. They are supposed to be strictly prohibited from sitting with her at lunch, during PE, etc.

I have another call in based on the incident yesterday, but wondering - am I missing something in terms of getting through to the principals OR should I just see if this dies out? I don't think it will die out, but just wondering how far would you all take this? What would any of you do in this situation? I feel like I'm coming across as the irritation when I just went them to enforce what they said they would do at the very least, and for this bullying to stop.

Keep up the pressure and consult an attorney. In the workplace this would be considered a hostile work environment based on religious affiliation/non-affiliation/belief. I don't have experience in education law, but this is the same thing.

The attorney should be able to advise you how to work it up the chain and possibly send a letter on your behalf. Sometimes the threat of legal intervention - and the questions that will raise about the administrators behavior/reaction will be enough to get the response that is required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you have the parent's numbers/emails in the school directory? Call them directly if the school has failed to stop the issue.

I remember when I was bullying a girl in ES (not proud of it but I was a bully at one point) the girl's mom called my mom and, well I'll just say I stopped after that. If the girls' mothers are decent people they will put a stop to it. Chances are at least one of their mothers are decent.

You are right the girls are feeding off each other and will continue until it is properly addressed.

Side note - it is far fetched but maybe they are being taught faulty doctrine at their church where they aren't supposed to associate with non Christians? Do you know if they go to a crazy church? If that's the case just keep your daughter away from them as their whole family is probably nuts.

Do not call the other kids parents. I they were decent this would have already stopped because the parents have been called by the school and been made aware of the behavior. This is the school's responsibility. I also disagree with a PP that it's not for you to decide to separate the other two girls. It most certainly is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have the parent's numbers/emails in the school directory? Call them directly if the school has failed to stop the issue.

I remember when I was bullying a girl in ES (not proud of it but I was a bully at one point) the girl's mom called my mom and, well I'll just say I stopped after that. If the girls' mothers are decent people they will put a stop to it. Chances are at least one of their mothers are decent.

You are right the girls are feeding off each other and will continue until it is properly addressed.

Side note - it is far fetched but maybe they are being taught faulty doctrine at their church where they aren't supposed to associate with non Christians? Do you know if they go to a crazy church? If that's the case just keep your daughter away from them as their whole family is probably nuts.

Do not call the other kids parents. I they were decent this would have already stopped because the parents have been called by the school and been made aware of the behavior. This is the school's responsibility. I also disagree with a PP that it's not for you to decide to separate the other two girls. It most certainly is.

How would OP go about separating two children, neither of whom is her own child?

Of course these two kids would be better off themselves and less likely to bully if they weren't a team. Yes, they're almost certainly encouraging each others' meanness.

But public schools (unless they have maybe a really daring principal who is willing to risk his or her job and risk litigation over privacy....) are not going to discuss any child with someone who is not a that child's parent or guardian. Period. There have been plenty of posts on DCUM over the years from parents frustrated because their school administrators, counselors or teachers refused to tell those parents how a bully was dealt with. That's the response OP will get if she pushes to have the school deal with these two girls as she wants. It's a waste of valuable energy and time for OP to try to make "separate these bullies from each other" an issue; her focus needs to stay on "separate both of these bullies from MY child." If the school administrators have brains they will separate the two bullies anyway, but it is not OP's to decide. Unfortunate, but that's how administrations have to operate.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like kids are just fighting, bringing religion into it is not helpful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you have the parent's numbers/emails in the school directory? Call them directly if the school has failed to stop the issue.

I remember when I was bullying a girl in ES (not proud of it but I was a bully at one point) the girl's mom called my mom and, well I'll just say I stopped after that. If the girls' mothers are decent people they will put a stop to it. Chances are at least one of their mothers are decent.

You are right the girls are feeding off each other and will continue until it is properly addressed.

Side note - it is far fetched but maybe they are being taught faulty doctrine at their church where they aren't supposed to associate with non Christians? Do you know if they go to a crazy church? If that's the case just keep your daughter away from them as their whole family is probably nuts.

Do not call the other kids parents. I they were decent this would have already stopped because the parents have been called by the school and been made aware of the behavior. This is the school's responsibility. I also disagree with a PP that it's not for you to decide to separate the other two girls. It most certainly is.

How would OP go about separating two children, neither of whom is her own child?

Of course these two kids would be better off themselves and less likely to bully if they weren't a team. Yes, they're almost certainly encouraging each others' meanness.

But public schools (unless they have maybe a really daring principal who is willing to risk his or her job and risk litigation over privacy....) are not going to discuss any child with someone who is not a that child's parent or guardian. Period. There have been plenty of posts on DCUM over the years from parents frustrated because their school administrators, counselors or teachers refused to tell those parents how a bully was dealt with. That's the response OP will get if she pushes to have the school deal with these two girls as she wants. It's a waste of valuable energy and time for OP to try to make "separate these bullies from each other" an issue; her focus needs to stay on "separate both of these bullies from MY child." If the school administrators have brains they will separate the two bullies anyway, but it is not OP's to decide. Unfortunate, but that's how administrations have to operate.

Yes, the focus should be separate both bullies from her child, but it's not unreasonable to continue to point out that the bullies are working in tandem every chance they get and it might help if they aren't allowed to sit together at lunch, etc. The principal doesn't have to tell the OP anything, but it doesn't mean the principal can't separate the other two kids to work on solving the problem. If I was the parent I'd keep pointing out that nothing had been done to prevent the other two girls from acting as a team against OP's daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like kids are just fighting, bringing religion into it is not helpful

Not sure you read the OP closely. The kids themselves "brought religion into it" and the kids are making religion the focus of their bullying. This is not a case of "just fighting" with a parent claiming it must be because her kid is of a different faith.

OP, please update us when you can.