Middle schooler who intentionally annoys his peers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medication might help if this is the result of OCD and repetitive intrusive thoughts. A thought might go “Neil sounds like peel. Bananas have peels. They’re icky and sticky. Oh no, now I can’t stop thinking about icky sticky banana peels when I see Neil.” So then, the child blurts out something to Neil to allieviate the pressure that accompanies the intrusive thought. “Icky Sticky Neil Peel.”

I had three young men like this in the past two school years. Two went on medication for OCD, but due to other behaviors (eyelash pulling, paper tearing, object arranging, etc). Both experienced a dramatic decrease in intentionally annoying peers. The third persisted all year long, even after being physically attacked at the bus stop area by a fed up peer.

Would this ever be the case in the absence of other OCD symptoms?

Intrusive thoughts are often overlooked by parents or kids don’t mention them. I remember a parent insisting that her son just had low self-esteem. On the questionnaire, he was scoring normal to high for self-esteem, but he often had an intrusive thought “I’m a bum.” He knew it wasn’t true, but it plagued him. He never developed rituals or audible tics. It came out when he took AP Psych class as a senior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Medication might help if this is the result of OCD and repetitive intrusive thoughts. A thought might go “Neil sounds like peel. Bananas have peels. They’re icky and sticky. Oh no, now I can’t stop thinking about icky sticky banana peels when I see Neil.” So then, the child blurts out something to Neil to allieviate the pressure that accompanies the intrusive thought. “Icky Sticky Neil Peel.”

I had three young men like this in the past two school years. Two went on medication for OCD, but due to other behaviors (eyelash pulling, paper tearing, object arranging, etc). Both experienced a dramatic decrease in intentionally annoying peers. The third persisted all year long, even after being physically attacked at the bus stop area by a fed up peer.

Would this ever be the case in the absence of other OCD symptoms?

Intrusive thoughts are often overlooked by parents or kids don’t mention them. I remember a parent insisting that her son just had low self-esteem. On the questionnaire, he was scoring normal to high for self-esteem, but he often had an intrusive thought “I’m a bum.” He knew it wasn’t true, but it plagued him. He never developed rituals or audible tics. It came out when he took AP Psych class as a senior.

That's interesting, thanks. I'm a NP, and my 8 year old often seems to get stuck on annoying behavior that was funny at first, but his friends have moved on and now it's just annoying. So this is another thing to think about, as we begin the ADHD evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

Not PP but jeezus. No it isn't bullying, it's teasing. It's annoying but harmless. Bullying ruins lives, STOP equating the two because you aren't doing any good to anyone.

It's considered verbal bullying, which is different from harmful teasing. My kid has been the victim of verbal bullying and it is deeply hurtful to her.
https://www.understood.org/en/friends-feelings/common-challenges/bullying/difference-between-teasing-and-bullying

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Calling someone by a joke name to annoy them is a dynamic that does not need to be explained to a middle schooler. He knows what he is doing is annoying. If he can't stop himself, he needs medication. If he won't stop himself, he needs consequences. If you can't tell the difference, I think medication should be started.

You do not spend much time around middle school boys, do you?

I teach middle schoolers and the difference is that they can stop. The OP's child sounds like he cannot which fits with his ADHD diagnosis. My son has ADHD and without medication, he is pretty annoying to be around. I doubt he would have any friends at all by his age (he is 12) without medication. Yes, many middle school boys are immature and like to annoy each other. But they ARE ABLE TO STOP when another kid or adult tells them to stop. OP- Does he take medication?

This sound entirely consistent with sensory seeking and poor impulse control that go with ADHD. I was the female version of this kid and, believe me, it's not that I didn't know it was annoying or that I even really wanted to be annoying .. it's literally getting too wound up and unable to stop. With time and maturity I learned to take a step back to rein myself in, but by that time the social damage was done. This is an ADHD impulse control issue and can be addressed with medication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

Not PP but jeezus. No it isn't bullying, it's teasing. It's annoying but harmless. Bullying ruins lives, STOP equating the two because you aren't doing any good to anyone.

It's considered verbal bullying, which is different from harmful teasing. My kid has been the victim of verbal bullying and it is deeply hurtful to her.
https://www.understood.org/en/friends-feelings/common-challenges/bullying/difference-between-teasing-and-bullying

No, its not. It isn't bullying. It's teasing. The other child isn't being intimidated, the other child isn't being harmed, the other child isn't being traumatized. Please stop taking away the very real experience of bullying by watering it down with this nonsense. The other child WAS NOT HARMED. He was annoyed. There is a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

Not PP but jeezus. No it isn't bullying, it's teasing. It's annoying but harmless. Bullying ruins lives, STOP equating the two because you aren't doing any good to anyone.

It's considered verbal bullying, which is different from harmful teasing. My kid has been the victim of verbal bullying and it is deeply hurtful to her.
https://www.understood.org/en/friends-feelings/common-challenges/bullying/difference-between-teasing-and-bullying

No, its not. It isn't bullying. It's teasing. The other child isn't being intimidated, the other child isn't being harmed, the other child isn't being traumatized. Please stop taking away the very real experience of bullying by watering it down with this nonsense. The other child WAS NOT HARMED. He was annoyed. There is a difference.

Please tell my SN DD, who regularly came home crying, that she isn't intimidated or traumatized. I am sure she will understand the difference when you explain it to her. Also read the link I posted. Perhaps you can let them know that there is no such thing as verbal bullying unless an adult considers it "traumatizing."

[Anonymous]

A child this age, who cannot interact well with peers, is not "doing fine" with his/her ADHD .... except for this one thing.

This one thing is a BIG deal. He will continue to alienate peers and that may well be the beginning of a downward spiral.

I agree that medication needs to be considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stop talking about it so much. "John, Lucas asked you not to call him that. Stop it." If he continues, you leave. Period. "You are being rude and unkind. We're leaving." And don't give it any more attention. "We're not going to talk about it anymore. You know what you did wrong."

At other times, you can talk about joking/teasing, about ways to be funny that don't annoy other people, etc. But in the moment, just suck all the oxygen out. Give him attention when he's being polite and behaving appropriately.

This. And do it without any emotion or irritation. Apologize (in front of your kid) to the parent and the other kid. "Sorry, Larla, John shouldn't be calling Lucas names. No one has to tolerate being called unkind names. We've really enjoyed seeing you. Maybe we can try again when Lucas is better able to control what he is saying."

It might sound harsh to end the activity, but you are demonstrating that there are consequences, even when a kid has difficulty complying. I say this as the mom to an ADHD kid and family member to someone with bipolar depression (which causes inappropriate speech and behavior). The person with the behavioral issue may not be intending to be hurtful or abusive, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the world has to tolerate the action/behavior.

I don't know how old DC is, but you need to have a non-judgemental conversation with him about why he is name-calling. This has to occur at a time that is significantly distant from the event that you both can talk about it without judgment or emotion. Does he dislike the playmate? Does the playmate do something mean to him? Can he just not stop himself from blurting it out? Is there a kinder nickname he can use instead (but not OK if the kid only wants to be called Lucas). Can he say "dude" or some other neutral substitute if he just can't stop himself from the rhyming? Does he just not understand how it makes the other person feel? Is he embarrassed when it slips out but doesn't know how to fix it, so he just tries to joke it off?

You need to understand the root cause of the behavior, if you want to reshape it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

I guess I wouldn't care, i've had 100 nicknames over my life time. We are robbing our kids of the ability to deal with a little discomfort.

Whaa! He called you pookis... that is not bullying in anybody's definition.

Lucas is a wimpus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

I guess I wouldn't care, i've had 100 nicknames over my life time. We are robbing our kids of the ability to deal with a little discomfort.

Whaa! He called you pookis... that is not bullying in anybody's definition.

Lucas is a wimpus.

Adults like you make life more difficult for kids like mine. This is the SN forum after all. Our kids are usually the victims. They are sensitive to teasing because they lack the social skills to understand it. And because they don't understand it, other kids zero in on their weaknesses and attack them there.

Imagine if you are in a room full of people speaking a foreign language and they are all pointing at you and laughing at you. That's what it's like for my kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

I guess I wouldn't care, i've had 100 nicknames over my life time. We are robbing our kids of the ability to deal with a little discomfort.

Whaa! He called you pookis... that is not bullying in anybody's definition.

Lucas is a wimpus.

Adults like you make life more difficult for kids like mine. This is the SN forum after all. Our kids are usually the victims. They are sensitive to teasing because they lack the social skills to understand it. And because they don't understand it, other kids zero in on their weaknesses and attack them there.

Imagine if you are in a room full of people speaking a foreign language and they are all pointing at you and laughing at you. That's what it's like for my kid.

I am on the SN forum because my kids have SNs. This is not a room full of people laughing at a person. This is 1 kid that created a nickname for his friend. The is seriously a non-issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

I guess I wouldn't care, i've had 100 nicknames over my life time. We are robbing our kids of the ability to deal with a little discomfort.

Whaa! He called you pookis... that is not bullying in anybody's definition.

Lucas is a wimpus.

Adults like you make life more difficult for kids like mine. This is the SN forum after all. Our kids are usually the victims. They are sensitive to teasing because they lack the social skills to understand it. And because they don't understand it, other kids zero in on their weaknesses and attack them there.

Imagine if you are in a room full of people speaking a foreign language and they are all pointing at you and laughing at you. That's what it's like for my kid.

I am on the SN forum because my kids have SNs. This is not a room full of people laughing at a person. This is 1 kid that created a nickname for his friend. The is seriously a non-issue.

Wouldn't be a non-issue for my kid. That's my point. Obviously it's not a non-issue for Lucas either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

Not PP but jeezus. No it isn't bullying, it's teasing. It's annoying but harmless. Bullying ruins lives, STOP equating the two because you aren't doing any good to anyone.

It's considered verbal bullying, which is different from harmful teasing. My kid has been the victim of verbal bullying and it is deeply hurtful to her.
https://www.understood.org/en/friends-feelings/common-challenges/bullying/difference-between-teasing-and-bullying

No, its not. It isn't bullying. It's teasing. The other child isn't being intimidated, the other child isn't being harmed, the other child isn't being traumatized. Please stop taking away the very real experience of bullying by watering it down with this nonsense. The other child WAS NOT HARMED. He was annoyed. There is a difference.

Please tell my SN DD, who regularly came home crying, that she isn't intimidated or traumatized. I am sure she will understand the difference when you explain it to her. Also read the link I posted. Perhaps you can let them know that there is no such thing as verbal bullying unless an adult considers it "traumatizing."

Have you noticed something?

This thread is not about your daughter. The SN kid in question here is the one who is provoking. Not the one being provoked.

Again, this isn't bullying even if it is directed at a SN kid. That is a heavy charge to throw at a child who is calling a kid Lucas pookis. If that's what you consider bullying then you will have a long road of righteous indignation ahead of you which will serve no purposes other than to make you feel misunderstood. I suggest instead you try to see this for what it is: a kidmwho lacks impulse control and is calling another kid a completely unoffensive, yet annoying, nickname. That's all it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

I guess I wouldn't care, i've had 100 nicknames over my life time. We are robbing our kids of the ability to deal with a little discomfort.

Whaa! He called you pookis... that is not bullying in anybody's definition.

Lucas is a wimpus.

Adults like you make life more difficult for kids like mine. This is the SN forum after all. Our kids are usually the victims. They are sensitive to teasing because they lack the social skills to understand it. And because they don't understand it, other kids zero in on their weaknesses and attack them there.

Imagine if you are in a room full of people speaking a foreign language and they are all pointing at you and laughing at you. That's what it's like for my kid.

I am on the SN forum because my kids have SNs. This is not a room full of people laughing at a person. This is 1 kid that created a nickname for his friend. The is seriously a non-issue.

Wouldn't be a non-issue for my kid. That's my point. Obviously it's not a non-issue for Lucas either.

Then you would have to talk to you kid about learning to deal as should Lucss'smom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think calling Lucas pookis is funny. All this over a joke. OMG how about Lucas get over himself.

I don't think 1 boy at our kids school does not get a nickname at some point he doesn't love.

Just stop hanging around pookis.

Imagine you are Lucas and this is your life 180 days a year. It’s not a nick name. It’s bullying.

Not PP but jeezus. No it isn't bullying, it's teasing. It's annoying but harmless. Bullying ruins lives, STOP equating the two because you aren't doing any good to anyone.

It's considered verbal bullying, which is different from harmful teasing. My kid has been the victim of verbal bullying and it is deeply hurtful to her.
https://www.understood.org/en/friends-feelings/common-challenges/bullying/difference-between-teasing-and-bullying

No, its not. It isn't bullying. It's teasing. The other child isn't being intimidated, the other child isn't being harmed, the other child isn't being traumatized. Please stop taking away the very real experience of bullying by watering it down with this nonsense. The other child WAS NOT HARMED. He was annoyed. There is a difference.

Please tell my SN DD, who regularly came home crying, that she isn't intimidated or traumatized. I am sure she will understand the difference when you explain it to her. Also read the link I posted. Perhaps you can let them know that there is no such thing as verbal bullying unless an adult considers it "traumatizing."

Have you noticed something?

This thread is not about your daughter. The SN kid in question here is the one who is provoking. Not the one being provoked.

Again, this isn't bullying even if it is directed at a SN kid. That is a heavy charge to throw at a child who is calling a kid Lucas pookis. If that's what you consider bullying then you will have a long road of righteous indignation ahead of you which will serve no purposes other than to make you feel misunderstood. I suggest instead you try to see this for what it is: a kidmwho lacks impulse control and is calling another kid a completely unoffensive, yet annoying, nickname. That's all it is.

I know it's not about my kid. The OP is trying to do the right thing by getting her kid to stop. I suspect you wouldn't.

understood.org wrote:
Verbal bullying includes calling a victim names,