The Catholic School Difference -- WSJ Article

[Anonymous]

Catholic school is not the way I would choose to imbue discipline in kids.

I’d love to see the studies that quantify the legacy of emotional and psychological damage that people the world over have from attending Catholic schools. That’s not even introducing the record of sexual abuse and pedophilia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it's all about the families. kids whose parents go through the process of selecting a school will do better than kids whose parents dont pay any attention to school. regardless of the actual school a kid attends.

I send my kid to Catholic and I think it's partly this. A family that is investing a serious amount of money in their kid's education is showing their priorities. There are a lot of other things I would love to do with that money.

I think the school also makes an effort to demonstrate the value to me as a parent. Lots of homework, lots of teacher communication about my child's performance challenges. If my kid could get the same amount of attention and input in public, that is where we would be.

School sent home a detailed plan of what tutoring they want her to get over the summer and a book and a packet with instructions for a presentation she will have to do for her new teacher in September. Never saw that in public for a summer break! Rising 5th grader.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correlation is not causation. There likely is something different about kids whose parents send them to Catholic schools.

This is addressed in the article and the study.

I can't read the article - behind a paywall. How did they control for confounders? That seems VERY difficult to do. I know for charter schools, some studies have controlled for confounders by comparing kids who applied by lottery and didn't get in, to kids who were accepted. But since Catholic schools have discretionary admittance policies, not lotteries, it seems pretty much impossible to control for confounders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Correlation is not causation. There likely is something different about kids whose parents send them to Catholic schools.

This is addressed in the article and the study.

I can't read the article - behind a paywall. How did they control for confounders? That seems VERY difficult to do. I know for charter schools, some studies have controlled for confounders by comparing kids who applied by lottery and didn't get in, to kids who were accepted. But since Catholic schools have discretionary admittance policies, not lotteries, it seems pretty much impossible to control for confounders.

You can probably get to this.

http://edex.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/%282018.05.31%29%20Foreword%20and%20Executive%20Summary%20-%20Self-discipline%20and%20Catholic%20Education.pdf

[Anonymous]

How did they control for confounders? That seems VERY difficult to do.

Propensity score matching using ECLS-K study. Methods probably not going to pass muster among DCUM econometricians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How did they control for confounders? That seems VERY difficult to do.

Propensity score matching using ECLS-K study. Methods probably not going to pass muster among DCUM econometricians.

Interesting they compared Catholic school to other secular private schools in addition to public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It says the discipline really helps for all SES, races, ethnicities.

The results in inner city catholic schools show the strongest reducing of an achievement gap of any system or teaching style.

Schools on military bases do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:it's all about the families. kids whose parents go through the process of selecting a school will do better than kids whose parents dont pay any attention to school. regardless of the actual school a kid attends.

I send my kid to Catholic and I think it's partly this. A family that is investing a serious amount of money in their kid's education is showing their priorities. There are a lot of other things I would love to do with that money.

I think the school also makes an effort to demonstrate the value to me as a parent. Lots of homework, lots of teacher communication about my child's performance challenges. If my kid could get the same amount of attention and input in public, that is where we would be.

School sent home a detailed plan of what tutoring they want her to get over the summer and a book and a packet with instructions for a presentation she will have to do for her new teacher in September. Never saw that in public for a summer break! Rising 5th grader.

Teacher in a Title One school here and mom to a Catholic school student. ITA about the priorities. So many of my students are not poor IRL but they are poor on paper. Their families just spend their money differently. It's a choice. They aren't interested in doing anything educational. That's my job. I have been told this many times. They scream at me when their child fails instead of looking at why they failed. Hmm, they didn't study. They didn't do the work. Those are choices too. When my son fails, I look at him. He made a choice to turn in substandard work. I give out summer work and many students throw it away. My son gets a grade for his work when he returns in Sept. Our school cannot enforce summer work and the kids and the parents know it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Catholic schools can kick out disruptive students and not worry about the missing tuition money for that student because they are not paying rent or taxes for their school property.

This ability to kick out or not accept disruptive students AND the religious emphasis on not sinning in Catholic schools combine to make for more orderly schools than public schools and some other private schools.

It was years ago, but that's how my Catholic school managed. My mischievous brother was asked to leave his last year by a despotic priest.

I wouldn't credit religion itself so much as controlling the student population and having a like minded community. I agree with others who feel if they are paying, they will be more invested in their child's education.

[Anonymous]

In think Catholic schools are like, "this is the way we do it. Comply or leave". Less red tape in enforcing discipline.

[Anonymous]

all the beatings helped




(kidding)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Great article in WSJ on the effect of Catholic schools on kids and self discipline.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-catholic-school-difference-1527894168

"The authors found statistically meaningful evidence that students in Catholic schools exhibited less disruptive behavior than their counterparts in other schools. “According to their teachers, Catholic school children argued, fought, got angry, acted impulsively, and disturbed ongoing activities less frequently,” the authors write. Specifically, students in Catholic schools “were more likely to control their temper, respect others’ property, accept their fellow students’ ideas, and handle peer pressure.” In other words, they exhibited more self-discipline."

"We also know that, especially in urban areas, black and Latino students who attend Catholic schools show higher achievement, higher graduation rates and higher college enrollment than those at nearby public schools."

“Don’t underestimate the power of religion to positively influence a child’s behavior. Religion isn’t the only way to foster self-discipline, the authors emphasize, but it’s effective compared to most of the alternatives in channeling youthful energy into productive self-control."

This is exactly what Seton Education Partners does. And it's working well.
We tried to hire founder to Gates Foundation K-12 but she launched this instead.

BTW, uniforms help. Full stop.

[Anonymous]

I don't think this is news. People have been sending their kids to Catholic Schools for generations for the reasons cited in the article.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Catholic school is not the way I would choose to imbue discipline in kids.

I’d love to see the studies that quantify the legacy of emotional and psychological damage that people the world over have from attending Catholic schools. That’s not even introducing the record of sexual abuse and pedophilia.

While you wait, you can check all the horrible cases of sexual abuse and pedophilia in independent and public schools in our area. Two examples:

https://wtop.com/dc/2017/03/georgetown-day-school-teacher-charged-with-sex-abuse/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/ex-charter-school-teacher-sentenced-to-8-years-in-prison-for-sexually-assaulting-six-students/2017/12/01/860c168c-d6e2-11e7-95bf-df7c19270879_story.html?utm_term=.b60ba20747f2

Do you have any example of abuse in a Catholic school here in our area, dear?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Catholic school is not the way I would choose to imbue discipline in kids.

I’d love to see the studies that quantify the legacy of emotional and psychological damage that people the world over have from attending Catholic schools. That’s not even introducing the record of sexual abuse and pedophilia.

While you wait, you can check all the horrible cases of sexual abuse and pedophilia in independent and public schools in our area. Two examples:

https://wtop.com/dc/2017/03/georgetown-day-school-teacher-charged-with-sex-abuse/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/ex-charter-school-teacher-sentenced-to-8-years-in-prison-for-sexually-assaulting-six-students/2017/12/01/860c168c-d6e2-11e7-95bf-df7c19270879_story.html?utm_term=.b60ba20747f2

Do you have any example of abuse in a Catholic school here in our area, dear?

I don't think there are tons of abuse allegations at the Catholic Schools... just public and other privates. It feels like almost every school has it now.