Loveless relationship

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Don't listen to all those who advise you to leave her, open the marriage, have an affair… they have nothing to lose, and are being brave at your expense.
You've been together for a long time, have invested in on another, and have kids who you are responsible towards. I'm not saying you should stay, or leave… but do give it time. A month with no sex or bad sex isn't the end of all things. And things said in anger and/or frustration are not always what they seem to be.
Are you still seeing your therapist? What you should do is think about what you really want to do. I don't know if you'll end up leaving or not… but I'm pretty sure that you won't be saying to yourself "oh, well… if I don't get sex in 6 weeks… I'm history". Once you think about it with a therapist you'll have an easier time figuring out your own desires and limits.
If you're not still in therapy, and feel your former therapist was a good fit for you, call him up and schedule a meeting. People often go in and out of therapy… and it will save you the prolonged intro phase.
Good luck…

Did you miss this from OP: sex has stopped, and she says that we can stay together for the good of the kids, but does not want to be touched, kissed, or have sex. In other words, his wife has abandoned the marriage, abdicated her role as wife, and has plotted the course to certain demise of their relationship. This is way beyond the point where your softball approach ("give it time" .... "see a therapist" ... "think about what you want" .... ) is of any use. A wife who has withdrawn intimacy like that needs a healthy shock back into reality. She has zero motivation to want anything to change. The next move is on him and should be decisive. I think "you win: I no longer want to touch you. Our marriage is now Open" would get her attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't listen to all those who advise you to leave her, open the marriage, have an affair… they have nothing to lose, and are being brave at your expense.
You've been together for a long time, have invested in on another, and have kids who you are responsible towards. I'm not saying you should stay, or leave… but do give it time. A month with no sex or bad sex isn't the end of all things. And things said in anger and/or frustration are not always what they seem to be.
Are you still seeing your therapist? What you should do is think about what you really want to do. I don't know if you'll end up leaving or not… but I'm pretty sure that you won't be saying to yourself "oh, well… if I don't get sex in 6 weeks… I'm history". Once you think about it with a therapist you'll have an easier time figuring out your own desires and limits.
If you're not still in therapy, and feel your former therapist was a good fit for you, call him up and schedule a meeting. People often go in and out of therapy… and it will save you the prolonged intro phase.
Good luck…

Did you miss this from OP: sex has stopped, and she says that we can stay together for the good of the kids, but does not want to be touched, kissed, or have sex. In other words, his wife has abandoned the marriage, abdicated her role as wife, and has plotted the course to certain demise of their relationship. This is way beyond the point where your softball approach ("give it time" .... "see a therapist" ... "think about what you want" .... ) is of any use. A wife who has withdrawn intimacy like that needs a healthy shock back into reality. She has zero motivation to want anything to change. The next move is on him and should be decisive. I think "you win: I no longer want to touch you. Our marriage is now Open" would get her attention.

DP. Did you miss where OP says he still loves her and would like things to work out? How is "you win, I no longer want to touch you, our marriage is now open" helpful in even attempting to re-establish love? She's not going to be "shocked" into changing her behavior if OP says this, she will take him at face value and withdraw even further, killing any chance at a reconciliation.

[Anonymous]

Take her on a romantic vacation without the kids. Be forgiving. get more therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Her shifting explanations seem like a huge red flag. First it's your temper but now she changes her rationale to something else. How can you trust her? How do you know she's not just moving the goal posts because of something she's not saying?

I think the shifting goalposts indicate a possible affair and also that she thought the therapy would boil down to the therapist telling you "you naughty boy, you! you need to shape up!"

and when that didn't happen, something else changed.

[Anonymous]

Couples therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don't listen to all those who advise you to leave her, open the marriage, have an affair… they have nothing to lose, and are being brave at your expense.
You've been together for a long time, have invested in on another, and have kids who you are responsible towards. I'm not saying you should stay, or leave… but do give it time. A month with no sex or bad sex isn't the end of all things. And things said in anger and/or frustration are not always what they seem to be.
Are you still seeing your therapist? What you should do is think about what you really want to do. I don't know if you'll end up leaving or not… but I'm pretty sure that you won't be saying to yourself "oh, well… if I don't get sex in 6 weeks… I'm history". Once you think about it with a therapist you'll have an easier time figuring out your own desires and limits.
If you're not still in therapy, and feel your former therapist was a good fit for you, call him up and schedule a meeting. People often go in and out of therapy… and it will save you the prolonged intro phase.
Good luck…

Did you miss this from OP: sex has stopped, and she says that we can stay together for the good of the kids, but does not want to be touched, kissed, or have sex. In other words, his wife has abandoned the marriage, abdicated her role as wife, and has plotted the course to certain demise of their relationship. This is way beyond the point where your softball approach ("give it time" .... "see a therapist" ... "think about what you want" .... ) is of any use. A wife who has withdrawn intimacy like that needs a healthy shock back into reality. She has zero motivation to want anything to change. The next move is on him and should be decisive. I think "you win: I no longer want to touch you. Our marriage is now Open" would get her attention.

DP. Did you miss where OP says he still loves her and would like things to work out? How is "you win, I no longer want to touch you, our marriage is now open" helpful in even attempting to re-establish love? She's not going to be "shocked" into changing her behavior if OP says this, she will take him at face value and withdraw even further, killing any chance at a reconciliation.

It's helpful because it smashes her current belief that the sexless marriage she want's (and now has) is sustainable. She is currently in the comfort zone of having exactly what she wants: a husband who meets her needs, without her having to care about his needs. So she has no reason to make any change. He must provide a good reason for her to want to change. She get's to chose in which direction, but standing still is not an option. The "shock" method has proven successful. And you aren't really offering him any credible options. Just sit around and "hope for the best" is a losing strategy when the boat is already sinking.

[Anonymous]

OP, you need to move out and move on. Kids will grow up and understand.

[Anonymous]

OP, I was with you until you mentioned all your hobbies and friends and sports. You certainly need to have people in your life that like you. I am just wondering if you have been spending too much time with other people and on other activities other than your family. Most people have a period of ramping up back into the single life after a divorce. You seem like you could get back in with no transition period and that has me wondering. Much of spending time with teenagers is just occupying the same space as they are. Ditto for your wife. It has to happen when everybody is open and ready to communicate which won't happen if you are busy with other things. Maybe your wife has some validity to her complaints. That being said, it's odd that she wants to stay married but doesn't want you to touch her. All humans need physical touch and adults need romantic and sexual touch in an appropriate relationship. Marriage is the ultimate appropriate relationship. I would tell your wife that you will make her and the kids your main priority, and also say that if she won't agree to some type of physical touch, the marriage is over. Sometimes you do need to say "we fix this today or it's over" and I think you've reached that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her shifting explanations seem like a huge red flag. First it's your temper but now she changes her rationale to something else. How can you trust her? How do you know she's not just moving the goal posts because of something she's not saying?

I think the shifting goalposts indicate a possible affair and also that she thought the therapy would boil down to the therapist telling you "you naughty boy, you! you need to shape up!"

and when that didn't happen, something else changed.

Am I the only one who thinks she moved the goal posts upon deeper reflection? First she thought she was mad about something more obvious and then she realized what her deeper hurt comes from. I think she wants OP to fight for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Her shifting explanations seem like a huge red flag. First it's your temper but now she changes her rationale to something else. How can you trust her? How do you know she's not just moving the goal posts because of something she's not saying?

I think the shifting goalposts indicate a possible affair and also that she thought the therapy would boil down to the therapist telling you "you naughty boy, you! you need to shape up!"

and when that didn't happen, something else changed.

Am I the only one who thinks she moved the goal posts upon deeper reflection? First she thought she was mad about something more obvious and then she realized what her deeper hurt comes from. I think she wants OP to fight for her.

I think she moved the goalposts because she was lying in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was with you until you mentioned all your hobbies and friends and sports. You certainly need to have people in your life that like you. I am just wondering if you have been spending too much time with other people and on other activities other than your family. Most people have a period of ramping up back into the single life after a divorce. You seem like you could get back in with no transition period and that has me wondering. Much of spending time with teenagers is just occupying the same space as they are. Ditto for your wife. It has to happen when everybody is open and ready to communicate which won't happen if you are busy with other things. Maybe your wife has some validity to her complaints. That being said, it's odd that she wants to stay married but doesn't want you to touch her. All humans need physical touch and adults need romantic and sexual touch in an appropriate relationship. Marriage is the ultimate appropriate relationship. I would tell your wife that you will make her and the kids your main priority, and also say that if she won't agree to some type of physical touch, the marriage is over. Sometimes you do need to say "we fix this today or it's over" and I think you've reached that point.

OP here, I have always had friends and hobbies and sport all the way back since when I was in high school. That has never been part of the equation --- I don't exclude it might surface back next week, but so far that has not been the issue. Nor the kids, for what is worth: each of us goes along amazingly well with them and spends time and energy with them. Time together never seems to have been a problem to be honest, and priority in the sense of spending time with the family has never been brought up. DW problem seems to be that I told her things I should not have said ten years ago, or that I yelled seven years ago, or that I was not kind enough in 2009, or something else that, when needed, comes back haunting her, and us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I was with you until you mentioned all your hobbies and friends and sports. You certainly need to have people in your life that like you. I am just wondering if you have been spending too much time with other people and on other activities other than your family. Most people have a period of ramping up back into the single life after a divorce. You seem like you could get back in with no transition period and that has me wondering. Much of spending time with teenagers is just occupying the same space as they are. Ditto for your wife. It has to happen when everybody is open and ready to communicate which won't happen if you are busy with other things. Maybe your wife has some validity to her complaints. That being said, it's odd that she wants to stay married but doesn't want you to touch her. All humans need physical touch and adults need romantic and sexual touch in an appropriate relationship. Marriage is the ultimate appropriate relationship. I would tell your wife that you will make her and the kids your main priority, and also say that if she won't agree to some type of physical touch, the marriage is over. Sometimes you do need to say "we fix this today or it's over" and I think you've reached that point.

OP here, I have always had friends and hobbies and sport all the way back since when I was in high school. That has never been part of the equation --- I don't exclude it might surface back next week, but so far that has not been the issue. Nor the kids, for what is worth: each of us goes along amazingly well with them and spends time and energy with them. Time together never seems to have been a problem to be honest, and priority in the sense of spending time with the family has never been brought up. DW problem seems to be that I told her things I should not have said ten years ago, or that I yelled seven years ago, or that I was not kind enough in 2009, or something else that, when needed, comes back haunting her, and us.

That isn't fair fighting. She needs some help learning how to communicate and fight. If it isn't that, there must be something else going on (affair).

[Anonymous]

Just so you know, divorce once the kids get to college seems less hurtful but brings its own set of problems. Believe me, you start to question everything about your childhood, and you still feel like you are to blame for what you learn was a sham marriage for years.

I hope you guys can work it out but it sounds like DW has checked out already.