The Gap Between Three APS High Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

Band begins in fourth grade at all of the Arlington elementary schools I am familiar with, as does orchestra. Renting an instrument through APS is very affordable - maybe $100 a year. And the schools all have free "rental" instruments for the students who cannot afford to rent from the school. The schools all have a limited number of instruments available to rent (yes, including those in North Arlington) so that might affect the choice a student has in what instrument to play, but in my experience - and all 4 of my kids have been in band from 4th through at least 8th grades - the band teachers are very good about making sure every student who needs an instrument gets one. Renting through a private business is more expensive but not exhorbitant. One of my DCs plays a large instrument that is difficult to transport back and forth to school so we rent one through the school and another privately for $30 a month. None of my DCs had/have private lessons and one is now her section leader in the marching band at UVA so private lessons are not a necessity to supplement what's taught at school. And guess what, she worked part time her last two years at W-L so balancing band and an after school job is not impossible. And no, we don't outsource more - my kids mow the lawn, clean the house, etc.

I suspect the disparity OP saw is more related to parent support. Swanson and W-L bands, which are the two I am most familiar with and both of which have fabulous band teachers, have tremendous parent support, with by far the most of it being time donated, not money. That said, it is generally a small group of hard core band parents doing most of the volunteering and many band parents at those schools don't do anything. Being a member of the marching band at W-L costs very little (maybe $100 to rent the uniform)and the money raised through students' fundraising goes in part to help students who cannot otherwise afford to be in band. I am sure someone will jump all over me for this comment, but I suspect that generally speaking, the parents of Wakefield students, either for lack of interest or lack of knowing about how little it actually costs, do not encourage their kids to be in band in elementary school and beyond. Another one of my DCs is a cheerleader and Kenmore, Gunston and Wakefield parents seem to give a lot of support to their cheerleading and dance teams.

[Anonymous]

Sorry op, but marching band doesn’t have a rich tradition in Ethiopia and El Salvador. You can’t make people share your values.

[Anonymous]

The disparity you saw has nothing to do with APS resources or money and everything to do with whether parents value their child learning how to play an instrument. Because the resources are absolutely there. Now if a parent is unaware of the resources, that’s a different story and the elementary school band teachers need to be doing better outreach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible that band isn't as strong at Wakefield, but other extracurriculars are?

I went to their spring musical last year, and it was fantastic. The kids did a beautiful job and were very strong in singing, acting, and dancing. The tech was also well done (set, lighting, sound). I came away really impressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is it possible that band isn't as strong at Wakefield, but other extracurriculars are?

I went to their spring musical last year, and it was fantastic. The kids did a beautiful job and were very strong in singing, acting, and dancing. The tech was also well done (set, lighting, sound). I came away really impressed.

Wakefield definitely has a strong Theatre program. They partner with Signature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

That map would have been hugely inconvenient for my family and I still think we should adopt it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

That map would have been hugely inconvenient for my family and I still think we should adopt it.

APS doesn't have the funding for that much busing without cutting other programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

That map would have been hugely inconvenient for my family and I still think we should adopt it.

+1. We live walking distance (0.7 miles) from the new middle school and a little more than 2 miles from Jefferson, which is where we'd be assigned under this scenario. I wholeheartedly support this map.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

That map would have been hugely inconvenient for my family and I still think we should adopt it.

APS doesn't have the funding for that much busing without cutting other programs.

Again I will ask why middle schoolers cannot ride ART?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

That was the single consideration map, the one staff called "stupid." So it was never being considered. But it turns out they were never considering the blended map either. So diversity was not only NOT the single consideration; it was not a consideration at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The disparity you saw has nothing to do with APS resources or money and everything to do with whether parents value their child learning how to play an instrument. Because the resources are absolutely there. Now if a parent is unaware of the resources, that’s a different story and the elementary school band teachers need to be doing better outreach.

So can your student get a transfer out based on band? Or lack of a debate team? Or other clubs that one school may not have?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

That map would have been hugely inconvenient for my family and I still think we should adopt it.

APS doesn't have the funding for that much busing without cutting other programs.

Again I will ask why middle schoolers cannot ride ART?

First, there isn't sufficient ART bus coverage to take kids to middle school, so Arlington County would instead have to invest money in dramatically expanded ART bus service (would you like higher taxes or fewer services to cover that?). If you look, for example, at Nottingham-zone kids (because we know how much you love to hate them) who would be bused to Kenmore instead of being able to walk a short distance to Williamsburg, they'd have to pick up their first of two ART buses before 6:30 am to get to Kenmore on time. At the end of the school day, if they really hustle after the bell and can get all of their stuff together and get to the ART bus stop in 12 minutes, they'll get home only a little less than an hour after school ends. If they miss that bus and have to wait for the next one, they get home a full two hours after school ends. Would you be willing to subject your child to upwards of three house of busing every day instead of 20 minutes of walking (30 if they take their time or stop to wait for a friend)? I doubt it, I imagine that would be something you think other people's kids should do.

Second, liability. If kids aren't within the walk zone and APS tells them to get on ART buses rather than providing school bus transportation and a child gets injured or disappears during their school transit, APS will get nailed for failing to provide safe transit to school. Because not all of these lines connect, you'll have kids walking a half mile or more along/across busy streets to reduce time spent on buses, which is just asking for someone to get hit by a car (especially in the winter when it will still be dark while they walk).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was the same way last year. Yorktown had a strong and large band with a elaborate show. W-L also had a strong showing. Wakefield had a smaller band and less elaborate show.

Hard to say if this is a resources thing or a personality thing. The Yorktown band director is really good and the feeder at Williamsburg with Mr. Woodson is excellent. And the elementary schools in north Arlington all have robust music programs. That said, I have worked in South Arlington schools and they all have music/elementary school programs too. So, I don't know what to tell you.

If it is a resources thing, is it a school resources thing or a home resources thing? Is APS actually giving more to Yorktown and W-L, or is the more likely difference that more affluent parents are more likely to be able to afford instrument rentals so their kids don't have to quit over the expense, and to be able to afford private lessons to supplement school instruction? Are the kids likely to have more time for practicing because they have less pressure to get an after school job and fewer chores at home because their parents outsource more? Is the school zone likely to donate more during the door-to-door community fundraisers at those schools so the band can afford nicer uniforms? These aren't thing APS has control over.

They can control that one. And we need not return to the 70's. Literally the current staff and school board are undoing policy/boundaries that have been in place since as recent as last year. They are UNDOING policies that promoted school diversity.

How? Through busing that no one supports except for the handful of people who think it will mean they will stay in their neighborhood school while a bunch of rich kids get bused in and poor kids get bused out?

It is not a handful of people who support this, and we're not talking about "busing." We're talking about boundaries that are drawn with socioeconomics in mind. That's not busing, and nobody had a problem with what we were doing all throughout the 90's, and 2000's. This is the agenda of the current school board. They will answer for it.

This doesn't look like busing to you?

https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scenario-1G-Demographics-Single-Consideration-.pdf

That map would have been hugely inconvenient for my family and I still think we should adopt it.

APS doesn't have the funding for that much busing without cutting other programs.

Again I will ask why middle schoolers cannot ride ART?

First, there isn't sufficient ART bus coverage to take kids to middle school, so Arlington County would instead have to invest money in dramatically expanded ART bus service (would you like higher taxes or fewer services to cover that?). If you look, for example, at Nottingham-zone kids (because we know how much you love to hate them) who would be bused to Kenmore instead of being able to walk a short distance to Williamsburg, they'd have to pick up their first of two ART buses before 6:30 am to get to Kenmore on time. At the end of the school day, if they really hustle after the bell and can get all of their stuff together and get to the ART bus stop in 12 minutes, they'll get home only a little less than an hour after school ends. If they miss that bus and have to wait for the next one, they get home a full two hours after school ends. Would you be willing to subject your child to upwards of three house of busing every day instead of 20 minutes of walking (30 if they take their time or stop to wait for a friend)? I doubt it, I imagine that would be something you think other people's kids should do.

Second, liability. If kids aren't within the walk zone and APS tells them to get on ART buses rather than providing school bus transportation and a child gets injured or disappears during their school transit, APS will get nailed for failing to provide safe transit to school. Because not all of these lines connect, you'll have kids walking a half mile or more along/across busy streets to reduce time spent on buses, which is just asking for someone to get hit by a car (especially in the winter when it will still be dark while they walk).

Not PP, but really I think the county NEEDS to invest more in transportation infrastructure even if it means higher taxes, because we're just too dense and too urban to pretend like we're the sleepy suburb of yesteryear. MS kids are old enough to use public transportation by themselves safely, if we had a more robust transit network. There's no reason why the special snowflakes of NOVA must be driven door-to-door. NONE. There are students in Switzerland and Germany who ride public buses alone to Kindergarten. If our kids can't handle that by 6th grade, they deserve to fail. So much for American exceptionalism.