A sensitive question about race?

[Anonymous]

I would NOT put my kids in this situation for MS or HS, having had that experience myself in ES and MS. ES was fine; MS was not.

DD is at a majority "minority" school. Her closest friends are mostly similar SES but different races. I don't think from what I can tell that race has been an issue in making friends. The bigger challenge I think is that lower Great Schools school can often have fewer social opportunities (kids don't all play on the same sport team or have Girl Scouts, parents less inclined to request a playdate of you but willing to let their kid come for one, etc). So you need to be really proactive early on in setting up playdates. How late in ES is this? The latter it is, the harder to break in I think - again, not due to race issues but just since you have to work so hard to create the social opportunities and I gather from here that playdates with unknown kids are just a lot less common starting even in later ES grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it ok to bring up racism against blacks but not ok to bring up reverse racism??

Because black people cannot be racist against whites as a master of the historical and structural situation here. See eg Missouri, Yale and Claremont McKenna College.

+1. Members of minority groups can be prejudiced; they cannot be racist. Racism is systematic and requires institutional power that minorities quite simply do not have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a sensitive question, but I'm wondering if I can get some insight on my new situation. I am in financial trouble and need to move. I am a single mom and am looking into moving into a school district that the elementary school is a 2 on Greater Schools. It's primarily black and Hispanic students and 7% white. My son is in 2nd grade that would be leaving a affluent more evenly diverse school. I have heard black parents on here say that the discrimination will always be a problem. I have never really talked to my son about race issues. My question is this: how do kids treat white kids when the white students are the minority? When parents see a white kid hanging out with their kid, do they feel worried that they will be treated diffeently? Do you talk to your kids about racist stuff?

I taught at a school just like that. We had maybe a handful of white middle class kids, and everyone else poor black or latino. It was so-so. There was some bullying, mostly verbal and not too awful, and they certainly didn't fit in. The problems were minor until later grades, like 5 and 6, when kids really tend to group up and notice differences. Still, while not ideal, it didn't seem too awful for most of the kids. A lot left for gifted centers in 3rd grade though, and I would say that would be the best bet if possible. Middle class kids tended to hang out with other middle class kids, regardless of color. They didn't talk about racist stuff exactly, but "white" was considered an insult word that kids would accuse each other of, and sometimes the middle class kids got teased for being "rich." There were definitely a couple of black teachers that were racist and picked on non-black kids, or deliberately didn't stop bullying by black kids. If it's your only option, it might be OK. Some kids were just fine. After all, it's a chance to shine, since most students are way below grade level. Some kids even thrived, but most just kept their heads down and got through it until middle school, when there more kids like them around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it ok to bring up racism against blacks but not ok to bring up reverse racism??

Because black people cannot be racist against whites as a master of the historical and structural situation here. See eg Missouri, Yale and Claremont McKenna College.

+1. Members of minority groups can be prejudiced; they cannot be racist. Racism is systematic and requires institutional power that minorities quite simply do not have.

Not sure that's accurate. What is institutional power, exactly? If you are a teacher in a school with mostly black students, and you have one white student and you and the other students treat that student badly, how is that not institutional power? School is an institution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:White parents are the ones who are uncomfortable with that situation, not anyone else. "Minorities" don't have the luxury of being uncomfortable with white people.

I'm sure OP will make a beeline for other white parents like they do at my school. It's kind of funny, it's so obvious.

That is utter baloney. I worked in place with mostly African American women, and they treated white women horribly. Really, really horribly. Some of the black women simply would not speak to any white woman just on principal. Like, I would walk up and say hi, and they would act like I wasn't there. One woman even told me that it wasn't personal; she just didn't like white people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it ok to bring up racism against blacks but not ok to bring up reverse racism??

Because black people cannot be racist against whites as a master of the historical and structural situation here. See eg Missouri, Yale and Claremont McKenna College.

+1. Members of minority groups can be prejudiced; they cannot be racist. Racism is systematic and requires institutional power that minorities quite simply do not have.

Get thee a dictionary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White parents are the ones who are uncomfortable with that situation, not anyone else. "Minorities" don't have the luxury of being uncomfortable with white people.

I'm sure OP will make a beeline for other white parents like they do at my school. It's kind of funny, it's so obvious.

That is utter baloney. I worked in place with mostly African American women, and they treated white women horribly. Really, really horribly. Some of the black women simply would not speak to any white woman just on principal. Like, I would walk up and say hi, and they would act like I wasn't there. One woman even told me that it wasn't personal; she just didn't like white people.

PP, how does your experience negate the validity of the prior PP's? Why would you call it "utter baloney," as if the truth of your experience means that hers can't also be true?

FWIW, I'm a black woman, and I've never engaged in or witnessed such behavior towards white women in professional settings. Perhaps I've seen such snubbing in my high school in the South, where racial tensions occasionally flared up, but not since then. I wonder where you work. I'm not saying this hasn't happened to you, but I hope you don't paint all black women with the same broad brush.

As to the OP's original question: I wouldn't worry too much about the majority minority setting per se. However, I'd think long and hard about the greatschools rating of 2 (and we know greatschool ratings aren't everything, but still--2 is really low). My child attends a predominantly AA school with a greatschools score of 8, and in speaking with parents of some of her white classmates, they're having a fantastic experience in the school. Some I've spoken with in depth about racial issues have so far not encountered any issues in this regard. However, most of my child's classmates of all races are from similar, middle-class backgrounds, so there is less of a gap between students of different races in this regard. As a middle/upper middle class family, we'd definitely hesitate about putting our child in a '2' school, particularly if my child would be in the racial minority in addition to being from a different SES background from most of the students--it just compounds any possible 'odd one out' difficulties, IMO.

[Anonymous]

A lot depends on the SES. I know a lot of parents feel more comfortable with low income latinos opposed to low income AA. I have found in our majority low income AA neighborhood that the kids are really really out of control. I regularly hear the N word and Eff you between kids as young as five. They have zero concern or respect for an adult at the playground with their toddler. The latino kids on the playground, also low income seem to have a huge amount of respect for adults (and I would assume that translates to the teachers), and seem to come from homes where there are parents who are working non stop so thats a could model. But yes, your kid is gonna have it tough the older he gets. Please don't kid yourself. Or else he will pick up some bad habits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White parents are the ones who are uncomfortable with that situation, not anyone else. "Minorities" don't have the luxury of being uncomfortable with white people.

I'm sure OP will make a beeline for other white parents like they do at my school. It's kind of funny, it's so obvious.

That is utter baloney. I worked in place with mostly African American women, and they treated white women horribly. Really, really horribly. Some of the black women simply would not speak to any white woman just on principal. Like, I would walk up and say hi, and they would act like I wasn't there. One woman even told me that it wasn't personal; she just didn't like white people.

PP, how does your experience negate the validity of the prior PP's? Why would you call it "utter baloney," as if the truth of your experience means that hers can't also be true?

FWIW, I'm a black woman, and I've never engaged in or witnessed such behavior towards white women in professional settings. Perhaps I've seen such snubbing in my high school in the South, where racial tensions occasionally flared up, but not since then. I wonder where you work. I'm not saying this hasn't happened to you, but I hope you don't paint all black women with the same broad brush.

As to the OP's original question: I wouldn't worry too much about the majority minority setting per se. However, I'd think long and hard about the greatschools rating of 2 (and we know greatschool ratings aren't everything, but still--2 is really low). My child attends a predominantly AA school with a greatschools score of 8, and in speaking with parents of some of her white classmates, they're having a fantastic experience in the school. Some I've spoken with in depth about racial issues have so far not encountered any issues in this regard. However, most of my child's classmates of all races are from similar, middle-class backgrounds, so there is less of a gap between students of different races in this regard. As a middle/upper middle class family, we'd definitely hesitate about putting our child in a '2' school, particularly if my child would be in the racial minority in addition to being from a different SES background from most of the students--it just compounds any possible 'odd one out' difficulties, IMO.

I was the PP. The other PP said white parents are the only ones who are uncomfortable with other races, and that minorities are never uncomfortable with white people. I was simply pointing out that that isn't true - it was the other PP who was speaking in absolutes.

I have experienced this AA hostility toward non-blacks in two different professional environments. One was the federal government (2 different offices, actually), and the other was a school in the DC area. I would definitely describe those federal government offices as a racially hostile environment. AA women were in the majority there, and the prejudice against non-black people (not just white) was extreme and overt.

In the school it was less so, because the AA women were just a few women, and not all the AA women in the school were like that. I really don't know what would motivate people to act like that or adopt that attitude toward people in their workplace. I find it hard to believe you have never met anyone like that or seen it happen. I don't paint all black women with the same brush - I know plenty of black women who aren't like that. I really don't understand this phenomena, but I attribute mainly to a kind of grown-up mean girl thing, perhaps bolstered by racial issues, but no doubt these women would be cliquey in any skin.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White parents are the ones who are uncomfortable with that situation, not anyone else. "Minorities" don't have the luxury of being uncomfortable with white people.

I'm sure OP will make a beeline for other white parents like they do at my school. It's kind of funny, it's so obvious.

That is utter baloney. I worked in place with mostly African American women, and they treated white women horribly. Really, really horribly. Some of the black women simply would not speak to any white woman just on principal. Like, I would walk up and say hi, and they would act like I wasn't there. One woman even told me that it wasn't personal; she just didn't like white people.

PP, how does your experience negate the validity of the prior PP's? Why would you call it "utter baloney," as if the truth of your experience means that hers can't also be true?

FWIW, I'm a black woman, and I've never engaged in or witnessed such behavior towards white women in professional settings. Perhaps I've seen such snubbing in my high school in the South, where racial tensions occasionally flared up, but not since then. I wonder where you work. I'm not saying this hasn't happened to you, but I hope you don't paint all black women with the same broad brush.

As to the OP's original question: I wouldn't worry too much about the majority minority setting per se. However, I'd think long and hard about the greatschools rating of 2 (and we know greatschool ratings aren't everything, but still--2 is really low). My child attends a predominantly AA school with a greatschools score of 8, and in speaking with parents of some of her white classmates, they're having a fantastic experience in the school. Some I've spoken with in depth about racial issues have so far not encountered any issues in this regard. However, most of my child's classmates of all races are from similar, middle-class backgrounds, so there is less of a gap between students of different races in this regard. As a middle/upper middle class family, we'd definitely hesitate about putting our child in a '2' school, particularly if my child would be in the racial minority in addition to being from a different SES background from most of the students--it just compounds any possible 'odd one out' difficulties, IMO.

I was the PP. The other PP said white parents are the only ones who are uncomfortable with other races, and that minorities are never uncomfortable with white people. I was simply pointing out that that isn't true - it was the other PP who was speaking in absolutes.

I have experienced this AA hostility toward non-blacks in two different professional environments. One was the federal government (2 different offices, actually), and the other was a school in the DC area. I would definitely describe those federal government offices as a racially hostile environment. AA women were in the majority there, and the prejudice against non-black people (not just white) was extreme and overt.

In the school it was less so, because the AA women were just a few women, and not all the AA women in the school were like that. I really don't know what would motivate people to act like that or adopt that attitude toward people in their workplace. I find it hard to believe you have never met anyone like that or seen it happen. I don't paint all black women with the same brush - I know plenty of black women who aren't like that. I really don't understand this phenomena, but I attribute mainly to a kind of grown-up mean girl thing, perhaps bolstered by racial issues, but no doubt these women would be cliquey in any skin.

So PP, the issue was really a group of grown-up Mean Girls who happened to be AA. They excluded others who happened to be white and just one said that she didn't like white people but you decided they all were racists?

[Anonymous]

I was the PP. The other PP said white parents are the only ones who are uncomfortable with other races, and that minorities are never uncomfortable with white people. I was simply pointing out that that isn't true - it was the other PP who was speaking in absolutes.

I have experienced this AA hostility toward non-blacks in two different professional environments. One was the federal government (2 different offices, actually), and the other was a school in the DC area. I would definitely describe those federal government offices as a racially hostile environment. AA women were in the majority there, and the prejudice against non-black people (not just white) was extreme and overt.

In the school it was less so, because the AA women were just a few women, and not all the AA women in the school were like that. I really don't know what would motivate people to act like that or adopt that attitude toward people in their workplace. I find it hard to believe you have never met anyone like that or seen it happen. I don't paint all black women with the same brush - I know plenty of black women who aren't like that. I really don't understand this phenomena, but I attribute mainly to a kind of grown-up mean girl thing, perhaps bolstered by racial issues, but no doubt these women would be cliquey in any skin.


I'm the PP you're responding to. I'll say again, I've never seen AA women deliberately exclude or act in a hostile manner towards white women in any work environment I've ever been in. I even attended an HBCU for undergrad and there were a few nonblack students--never heard about or saw them excluded. I've worked on both coasts in academic, healthcare, and nonprofit settings. In some of these, granted, I was the only AA female--heck, in most, I've been the only black person, period. However, even in my current work environment in DC, which is maybe 5-10% AA, I don't see it. My field selects for those work well with others, since it requires collaboration. Anyone who acts in the manner you've described would quickly be out the door.

I'll give you that I've encountered a few somewhat surly municipal workers in DC, some of whom are AA. However, I've seen such workers have an attitude with everyone, not just white women.

I'm glad you allow that not all AA women you've encountered behave like this to non-black women. I just don't want people to think that being in a majority AA environment will be necessarily a bad experience.

[Anonymous]

Ack, my quotes didn't come out right. This is directed to 6:26:

I'm the PP you're responding to. I'll say again, I've never seen AA women deliberately exclude or act in a hostile manner towards white women in any work environment I've ever been in. I even attended an HBCU for undergrad and there were a few nonblack students--never heard about or saw them excluded. I've worked on both coasts in academic, healthcare, and nonprofit settings. In some of these, granted, I was the only AA female--heck, in most, I've been the only black person, period. However, even in my current work environment in DC, which is maybe 5-10% AA, I don't see it. My field selects for those work well with others, since it requires collaboration. Anyone who acts in the manner you've described would quickly be out the door.

I'll give you that I've encountered a few somewhat surly municipal workers in DC, some of whom are AA. However, I've seen such workers have an attitude with everyone, not just white women.

I'm glad you allow that not all AA women you've encountered behave like this to non-black women. I just don't want people to think that being in a majority AA environment will be necessarily a bad experience.

[Anonymous]

My kindergartner is the only white kid in her class. The school is about half black, half Latino. The grades below her have more white students, but in her grade, it's her and like 2 boys.

It hasn't been a problem. She occasionally states a desire for AA hair. She enjoys speaking her very rudimentary Spanish with her best friend who speaks Spanish at home.

I might be slightly concerned if I was enrolling an older child at a school where they would be the only white kid, but my daughter loves her school and her friends and we haven't had any issues.

[Anonymous]

Year ago, I worked for the DC government and I was the only white person in the office. Some people were wonderful and some were horrible and clearly racist. I only lasted 6 months as several co-workers saw what was going on and approached me to leave immediately as the supervisors were horrible to me and would never change (they were nasty to everyone but they clearly didn't like having a young white woman there, even though they hired me as the token diversity). Everyone can be racist, including minorities and anyone who says otherwise is coving up for their own behavior.

If it is your only option, take it. I'd try to get into low income scattered site housing outside dc or do the lottery. You can always move in a few years. If your child is younger, it should be fine but as they get older kids self-segregate and its going to be an issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:White parents are the ones who are uncomfortable with that situation, not anyone else. "Minorities" don't have the luxury of being uncomfortable with white people.

I'm sure OP will make a beeline for other white parents like they do at my school. It's kind of funny, it's so obvious.

That is utter baloney. I worked in place with mostly African American women, and they treated white women horribly. Really, really horribly. Some of the black women simply would not speak to any white woman just on principal. Like, I would walk up and say hi, and they would act like I wasn't there. One woman even told me that it wasn't personal; she just didn't like white people.

PP, how does your experience negate the validity of the prior PP's? Why would you call it "utter baloney," as if the truth of your experience means that hers can't also be true?

FWIW, I'm a black woman, and I've never engaged in or witnessed such behavior towards white women in professional settings. Perhaps I've seen such snubbing in my high school in the South, where racial tensions occasionally flared up, but not since then. I wonder where you work. I'm not saying this hasn't happened to you, but I hope you don't paint all black women with the same broad brush.

As to the OP's original question: I wouldn't worry too much about the majority minority setting per se. However, I'd think long and hard about the greatschools rating of 2 (and we know greatschool ratings aren't everything, but still--2 is really low). My child attends a predominantly AA school with a greatschools score of 8, and in speaking with parents of some of her white classmates, they're having a fantastic experience in the school. Some I've spoken with in depth about racial issues have so far not encountered any issues in this regard. However, most of my child's classmates of all races are from similar, middle-class backgrounds, so there is less of a gap between students of different races in this regard. As a middle/upper middle class family, we'd definitely hesitate about putting our child in a '2' school, particularly if my child would be in the racial minority in addition to being from a different SES background from most of the students--it just compounds any possible 'odd one out' difficulties, IMO.

I was the PP. The other PP said white parents are the only ones who are uncomfortable with other races, and that minorities are never uncomfortable with white people. I was simply pointing out that that isn't true - it was the other PP who was speaking in absolutes.

I have experienced this AA hostility toward non-blacks in two different professional environments. One was the federal government (2 different offices, actually), and the other was a school in the DC area. I would definitely describe those federal government offices as a racially hostile environment. AA women were in the majority there, and the prejudice against non-black people (not just white) was extreme and overt.

In the school it was less so, because the AA women were just a few women, and not all the AA women in the school were like that. I really don't know what would motivate people to act like that or adopt that attitude toward people in their workplace. I find it hard to believe you have never met anyone like that or seen it happen. I don't paint all black women with the same brush - I know plenty of black women who aren't like that. I really don't understand this phenomena, but I attribute mainly to a kind of grown-up mean girl thing, perhaps bolstered by racial issues, but no doubt these women would be cliquey in any skin.

White woman here. I've never experienced anything even remotely like this at work, but have regularly where I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. Sure, I also have great black neighbors of all SES levels, but there are other people who hang out or live around me that are very hostile to white people and have told me, to my face, "it's not personal, I just don't like/don't want to live near white people" (sometimes coached in "i don't like white people, but you're actually pretty cool (...for a white person).

I guess it just gives me a tiny insight to life for most black people, every day and in most environments.