Need some advice for day to day troubles - SN kid

[Anonymous]

OP here.

He does feel sad when people get upset with him, but the rest ofthe day he is joyful, playing with the neighbor's kid, playing with his sister, cracking jokes, etc...

On meds, he does not want to play at all. He doesn't want to socialize with his few friends, or even his sister. He just wants to watch TV or get on his iPad.

He is not a hitter at all. And he got almost straight A's/4's for his last year's final grades (except for one subject, he got a 3).

Just wondering how we can save the exuberance and joy but extinguish the impulsivity and negative behaviors.

Pp who said I should rethink the forest in the car: you are correct. I need to get over it. I should appreciate his love of nature.

[Anonymous]

OP,

The meds should be helping him control his impulses and not dramatically alter his personality. He needs them adjusted or changed.

Try a social skills group for him. Ivymount has one for older kids. I think you need to stick with the rewards system, e.g., Kazdin Method. A behavioral therapist can help you set up a plan at home.

Harness his love of nature. Check out Parkpass or Partakes for hikes, and/or other nature programs. (He should be learning the "rules" of collecting in any case. If he's at a park, he needs to leave nature in nature.) I've seen classes at Brookside on how to press leaves. He can learn to "tame" his collection. If he craves a living being consider something low maintenance that he can take care of like a hermit crab for example. Lastly, set limits on how much he can bring into the house and where he can store it. If he brings in more items, he can "preserve" the memory with a photo and then it goes to the mulch pile.

Lastly, you may want to try compression shirts like Under Armor. They are pricey but can help kids get the sensory imput they need.

[Anonymous]

It doesn't sound like he needs a social skills class, he needs to learn to manage his impulses. That's tough, as a PP noted, because his frontal lobe isn't well developed. And, even after he matures, he may still have impulse issues well into his 30s. My DH did.

My advice for meals is to get him a wiggle seat http://www.amazon.com/Isokinetics-Brand-Exercise-Balance-Cushion/dp/B000WQ4Z7Q. Our meal times are so much quieter. It provides enough movement our kids' needs are met but not so much movement that they're disruptive.

I also second the advice to work with a skilled psychiatrist on medication management. You don't say who prescribed the ADHD medication but you need to work with someone who has expertise. And, don't be afraid to try a med that you didn't get good results from before. Metabolism changes over time and if you haven't worked with an expert before, you need to be willing to try some of them again.

It sounds like your DS may benefit from more exercise - and it's an excellent consequence for unacceptable behavior. When my DS is annoying his siblings (or me) like your DS is annoying his sister, I immediately make him take the dog for a walk. He needs to respect 'no' and respect boundaries. When he's not able to control his impulses or know when to stop, you need to impose boundaries. Before he was old enough to walk the dog alone, I'd make him jump on the rebounder for X times. If he was still out of control, I'd send him outside (no matter the weather). This has really made a huge difference. Not only do the rest of us get a break, DS gets consequences for his actions that aren't punitive or crushing and he learns things that can help him get back 'in control'. We talk a lot about 'in control' and 'out of control'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

The meds should be helping him control his impulses and not dramatically alter his personality. He needs them adjusted or changed.

Try a social skills group for him. Ivymount has one for older kids. I think you need to stick with the rewards system, e.g., Kazdin Method. A behavioral therapist can help you set up a plan at home.

Harness his love of nature. Check out Parkpass or Partakes for hikes, and/or other nature programs. (He should be learning the "rules" of collecting in any case. If he's at a park, he needs to leave nature in nature.) I've seen classes at Brookside on how to press leaves. He can learn to "tame" his collection. If he craves a living being consider something low maintenance that he can take care of like a hermit crab for example. Lastly, set limits on how much he can bring into the house and where he can store it. If he brings in more items, he can "preserve" the memory with a photo and then it goes to the mulch pile.

Lastly, you may want to try compression shirts like Under Armor. They are pricey but can help kids get the sensory imput they need.

I like this. His love of nature, its potential to help him sublimate his sensory processing issues, that's all good.

One big issue with a lot of kids is how to motivate them to act in socially appropriate ways. Here's something he's already motivated to have an interest in. I love the idea of teaching him how to "tame" his collection, how to handle it in ways that will bring the admiration of others rather than censure. Rather than being something to fight, this could be something to channel and use to your benefit. That is, encourage all this providing he adopts appropriate ground rules for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He brings pinecones, grass, crumpled leaves, acorns, whatever he found that was interesting that day and dumps it in his area. It is practically a forest there now. It would be a wildlife sanctuary except I had to put my foot down with bringing in frogs, lizards, and other things like that. No matter how many times we ask him to not bring such things in the car he doesn't listen.

Just to follow up on last post, instead of asking him not to bring things in the car, why not meet him halfway -- make a deal with him that he can bring things in the car providing he uses certain containers and materials you provide that are pursuant to that purpose. If he sticks with the rules, he can pursue his interest through what he brings back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't sound like he needs a social skills class, he needs to learn to manage his impulses. That's tough, as a PP noted, because his frontal lobe isn't well developed. And, even after he matures, he may still have impulse issues well into his 30s. My DH did.

My advice for meals is to get him a wiggle seat http://www.amazon.com/Isokinetics-Brand-Exercise-Balance-Cushion/dp/B000WQ4Z7Q. Our meal times are so much quieter. It provides enough movement our kids' needs are met but not so much movement that they're disruptive.

I also second the advice to work with a skilled psychiatrist on medication management. You don't say who prescribed the ADHD medication but you need to work with someone who has expertise. And, don't be afraid to try a med that you didn't get good results from before. Metabolism changes over time and if you haven't worked with an expert before, you need to be willing to try some of them again.

It sounds like your DS may benefit from more exercise - and it's an excellent consequence for unacceptable behavior. When my DS is annoying his siblings (or me) like your DS is annoying his sister, I immediately make him take the dog for a walk. He needs to respect 'no' and respect boundaries. When he's not able to control his impulses or know when to stop, you need to impose boundaries. Before he was old enough to walk the dog alone, I'd make him jump on the rebounder for X times. If he was still out of control, I'd send him outside (no matter the weather). This has really made a huge difference. Not only do the rest of us get a break, DS gets consequences for his actions that aren't punitive or crushing and he learns things that can help him get back 'in control'. We talk a lot about 'in control' and 'out of control'

Social skill groups can help kids do this. (Agree with pretty much everything else.)

[Anonymous]

We also have a rebound in the house for our adhd sensory seeker. Also a swing installed in basement. I wish I jogged and could take him for a run every morning.

[Anonymous]

First, hugs. You are not a bad mom. I found this board looking for adhd support. My Ds had impulsivity and hyperness but not to the level you described. He also had no sense of personal space and was very physical so that turned kids off. ( should say physical was jumping on your back, picking you up, thngs he thought was saying " I like you." )

About 3 rd grade we tried a few meds bit he also had a flat affect and often cried for a few minutes in the afternoon. We went to old standby Ritalin at 10mg and did the trick. Much calmer and did not affect his personality - which was much like your son's: loving, kind, caring, always optimistic.

But what I really want to tell you is that puberty helped the hyperactivity/ impulsivness a lot! If your DS is 11, it might be starting soon and perhaps by 12-13 you will notice. Not over night but it does come. It does get better in that respect!

Still needs meds to focus and he still does things impulsively ( like I am cooking dinner, he sees that, but Grabs cookies From the cookie jar. Or, goes out back door to frie nds house behind us without telling us. ) Minor things to just share a few examples.

Also, one thing I had to learn when he was younger that you can't say stop, yell, whatever verbal commands you need without going over to him, placing a hand on his shoulder, and then saying " give sally her hair clips back, don't jump on billy's back." I spent the yearly years yelling - not in a mean way but in a loud way in a reaction to what was going on thinking he heard me. They do but the brain is not connecting it to the immediate need to stop doing what they aren't doing. Physical touch worked wonders for my ds. He may do it 2 sec later but would always respond / stop immediately when touched. I hope it gets better for you.

[Anonymous]

Sorry for all the typos. On an ipad!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP,

The meds should be helping him control his impulses and not dramatically alter his personality. He needs them adjusted or changed.

Try a social skills group for him. Ivymount has one for older kids. I think you need to stick with the rewards system, e.g., Kazdin Method. A behavioral therapist can help you set up a plan at home.

Harness his love of nature. Check out Parkpass or Partakes for hikes, and/or other nature programs. (He should be learning the "rules" of collecting in any case. If he's at a park, he needs to leave nature in nature.) I've seen classes at Brookside on how to press leaves. He can learn to "tame" his collection. If he craves a living being consider something low maintenance that he can take care of like a hermit crab for example. Lastly, set limits on how much he can bring into the house and where he can store it. If he brings in more items, he can "preserve" the memory with a photo and then it goes to the mulch pile.

Lastly, you may want to try compression shirts like Under Armor. They are pricey but can help kids get the sensory imput they need.

My kid with ADHD/ASD was accepted and then "unaccepted" by Ivymount's social skills program. This was prior to DS being diagnosed with ADHD when he only had an ASD diagnosis.

His challenges were similar to OP's son, hyperactive sensory seeker but not messy, hates messy. Ivymount decided that DS was too much of a handful and his social skills too poor to be in their Saturday social skills class. We tried getting into other social skills groups but all the ones we looked at would not take kids with these kinds of behavioral issues (untreated ADHD).

Now that DS is being treated for ADHD, all his problematic behaviors are gone and he is a much happier kid.

[Anonymous]

OP- I read some of the responses-- my son has mild/moderate ADHD. He's still a handful and if he were any more difficult, he would be on medication. Your son sounds like he may need medication to interact positively with his sister who he adores, make friends, and learn some of the social lessons that he needs to learn.

The only reason I mentioned my son is because even moderate ADHD has a big effect on his functioning- we are barely hanging on with his private school without meds and he's pretty difficult to deal with at home-- that's the moderate end of unmedicated ADHD. We consider the medication question all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't sound like he needs a social skills class, he needs to learn to manage his impulses. That's tough, as a PP noted, because his frontal lobe isn't well developed. And, even after he matures, he may still have impulse issues well into his 30s. My DH did.

My advice for meals is to get him a wiggle seat http://www.amazon.com/Isokinetics-Brand-Exercise-Balance-Cushion/dp/B000WQ4Z7Q. Our meal times are so much quieter. It provides enough movement our kids' needs are met but not so much movement that they're disruptive.

I also second the advice to work with a skilled psychiatrist on medication management. You don't say who prescribed the ADHD medication but you need to work with someone who has expertise. And, don't be afraid to try a med that you didn't get good results from before. Metabolism changes over time and if you haven't worked with an expert before, you need to be willing to try some of them again.

It sounds like your DS may benefit from more exercise - and it's an excellent consequence for unacceptable behavior. When my DS is annoying his siblings (or me) like your DS is annoying his sister, I immediately make him take the dog for a walk. He needs to respect 'no' and respect boundaries. When he's not able to control his impulses or know when to stop, you need to impose boundaries. Before he was old enough to walk the dog alone, I'd make him jump on the rebounder for X times. If he was still out of control, I'd send him outside (no matter the weather). This has really made a huge difference. Not only do the rest of us get a break, DS gets consequences for his actions that aren't punitive or crushing and he learns things that can help him get back 'in control'. We talk a lot about 'in control' and 'out of control'

Social skill groups can help kids do this. (Agree with pretty much everything else.)

Thank you, PP, for the sound advice.

This is our fourth med and the only one that has worked to calm his body down. However, the psychiatrist very clearly told us it will not work on his lack of motivation (for school or to obey us at times). It helps only with the hyperactivity. So far every med we tried either did not help enough or it sapped the joy and life out of him to the point where he didn't even want to play with anyone. i hate that we can't find the right med.

As far as social skills groups go, he was in stepping stones for a while. They said out of all the children in his group, he was the only one who seemed to exhibit any empathy toward other children. Thus, I was given the impression the other children were behind him developmentally or emotionally (perhaps ASD, I'm not sure). I honestly did not see one bit of improvement in him throughout the social skills class or afterward, and we had done a couple of groups.

As far as exercise goes, it works….like a charm. We consulted with Dr. Lucy Miller a few yrs back who advised him to get vigorous movement before and after school. We provided that and it did help to calm his body, help improved his focus and attention too. However, he's older now and it's hard to make him do anything he doesn't want to do. He's not sporty and doesn't much like to ride bikes or run. If I could get him in some kind of movement he enjoys, I think it would help him.

I read that in Europe children are much less likely to be on ADHD medication than in the US. Why is this the case? Apparently in Europe, children are mandated to try to behavioral program BEFORE meds can be considered. With most children, the behavioral program works well enough that meds are not even tried. Why isn't this approach tried here in the US?

I would like to learn more about this and see if it might work for my son.

[Anonymous]

Our kid is so much like yours, and we had a similar first experience with meds. They tamed his craziness and made him much more capable in many ways but also solitary, sad, and over time a bit obsessive and paranoid. After 6 months we went off and he was so wonderfully goofy and exuberant and happy, and playing with his sister constantly, again. But now we're back again, trying a different combination and a lower dose. Like PP, we've found just 10mg of Ritalin LA gives him some help without throttling his personality, although the positives are not as noticeable as they were on the higher Adderall dose either. And our psych suggested a little guanfacine to help the hyperactivity so he doesn't have to take too much of the stimulant, which seems to be where the side effects come from. So far it's a good experiment. Maybe there's no solution to this dilemma, but neither extreme is good. And maybe drifting back and forth over time is OK.

[Anonymous]

OP,

It may be the right med but at the wrong dose.

Also, don't be so fooled by that chestnut posted on DCUM from time to time that "French kids don't have ADHD." Of course kids in Europe have ADHD and of course they are medicated. Search Pubmed if your really interested, e.g.:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24443092

[Anonymous]

OP, my ADHD and Aspie child is on meds for impulse control. I have to say I think we may be lucky in that the meds he has tried have never ever caused a complete personality change in him. He is still goofy, funny etc... HOWEVER, on the meds he seems to know better when that behavior is acceptable and when it's just to much. He takes meds and does CBT (which also helps). I think you need a psych prescribing and it's a challenge to find the right med and the right dose. It may take some time. I also think that it's a combination of therapies that works (there is no one magic therapy).