Separation & Divorce - Need Insights

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wasn't prepared for the person I'd been with for 13 years, who I had always fundamentally believed was a decent guy, to turn into a raging asshole. We had always had a pleasant existence. Our initial break-up was sad, but not angry or spiteful. Then, when it came time to deal with all the practical concerns--housing, cars, furniture, etc. he was a complete prick. He did his best to hurt me in every way possible. And to actually screw me out of money/property. I was so taken aback, as were our mutual friends. No one would have suspected it based on his personality. (and it was his idea first to split!) I ended up just wanting to get away from the new pain he was causing me as soon as possible and so I got royally screwed on the "settlement" aspect of it. I guess I wish I could have just known that, despite the fact that he and I had said we were going to handle the breakup "like friends" that it's not necessarily true. Maybe I could have been more emotionally prepared and stood my ground on some things.

Good luck to you. Some of its very hard. And then you get through it. Ask yourself which is worse... the acute pain caused by divorce or the long-term chronic pain of an unhappy marriage.

I actually had exactly the opposite experience! I was absolutely certain that my decent-but-pretty-stubborn-and-self-righteous partner of 10 years would be a raging asshole. I expected him to fight me on everything from agreeing to the divorce in the first place to custody to support to property. And then he just didn't. We had a couple of really emotional conversations directly after I told him that I wanted a divorce, but then we sat down and came up with what we wanted out of our divorce. It boiled down to a list of stuff like "Don't fight about money" and "Have DD see us being nice to each other" and "Divide things up equally and fairly" and then that's exactly what happened. I had spent a lot of time and a $5,000 retainer lining up a hardcore lawyer anticipating a big fight that simply never occurred.

Our divorce was certainly not without issues and I will not claim that we never had any contentious conversations, that we never disagreed or lost our tempers with each other, etc. But we managed to keep our eyes on the prize. I am really proud that DD has never seen us fight and that neither of us shit-talked the other to her. We have also managed our post-divorce relationships in pretty good ways. I have my quibbles with his and he has his quibbles with mine, but our partners are very much integrated into our coparenting relationship and everyone is on board with doing whatever is best for DD.

[Anonymous]

I'm the child of divorce PP. I'm really surprised (not being snarky) that people still think "kids are resilient" after divorce and things of that nature. Haven't there been a ton of studies showing that divorce is really, really tough for kids? I know back in the 70s when my parents got divorced there was a lot of pro divorce propaganda around but I thought that, since then, seeing the huge effect it has on kids, people had mostly wised up.

IMO people in completely miserable marriages, like my parents (hated each others guts for years and years, huge screaming matches, nastiness, affairs, jealousy, pitting me against the that parent etc.) should get divorced no question about it. But divorcing because you think you might meet a better person or because you fight about certain issues seems insane if you have kids.

[Anonymous]

I really hate "children are resilient". It basically means that anything negative I might say about my parents' divorce is evidence of my own lack of resilience. It provides a convenient excuse for adults to wave away the consequences of their choices.

My experience is, even though the emotional fallout is mostly in the past, having divorced parents is an expensive and time-consuming pain in the ass. I wish the expression were "children get extra vacation days and a travel allowance".

[Anonymous]

I think that "children are resilient" is a pretty flippant way to address a complicated situation. It seems dismissive of perfectly legitimate concerns that parents have about the effect that their divorce will have on their child(ren).

I am the child of divorce and am also divorced and remarried. Children are resilient in that while many if not most children will experience distress as a result of a divorce, that distress is not automatically a life-ruining permanent state. I was pretty distressed when my parents got divorced, but I went on to have good relationships with both of them and generally not having relationship issues myself as an adult. (My divorce aside, obviously. I actually credit my parents' divorce with my ability to recognize that my marriage was really and truly salvageable and moving on.)

When I was getting divorced, rather than having people say "Children are resilient, she'll be fine" I would have rathered them say things like, "This is a time when it's important that she know that she has two parents who love her no matter what" or "Help her to understand the new structure of her life and try to keep things as consistent as possible so that she doesn't have to contend with a whole bunch of surprises and unpredictability on top of everything else." I would have appreciated people saying, "You are a good mom, even though you are doing this thing that will be hard for everyone for a while." I felt like "children are resilient" is pretty blaming - on the parent, for doing shitty stuff to their kid but it's okay, because RESILIENT, and on the child, because you're RESILIENT and therefore should not have these feelings you have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that "children are resilient" is a pretty flippant way to address a complicated situation. It seems dismissive of perfectly legitimate concerns that parents have about the effect that their divorce will have on their child(ren).

I am the child of divorce and am also divorced and remarried. Children are resilient in that while many if not most children will experience distress as a result of a divorce, that distress is not automatically a life-ruining permanent state. I was pretty distressed when my parents got divorced, but I went on to have good relationships with both of them and generally not having relationship issues myself as an adult. (My divorce aside, obviously. I actually credit my parents' divorce with my ability to recognize that my marriage was really and truly salvageable and moving on.)

When I was getting divorced, rather than having people say "Children are resilient, she'll be fine" I would have rathered them say things like, "This is a time when it's important that she know that she has two parents who love her no matter what" or "Help her to understand the new structure of her life and try to keep things as consistent as possible so that she doesn't have to contend with a whole bunch of surprises and unpredictability on top of everything else." I would have appreciated people saying, "You are a good mom, even though you are doing this thing that will be hard for everyone for a while." I felt like "children are resilient" is pretty blaming - on the parent, for doing shitty stuff to their kid but it's okay, because RESILIENT, and on the child, because you're RESILIENT and therefore should not have these feelings you have.

+1 on the whole comment. It's sad that "not in a permanent and life-ruining state of distress" is where the bar is set for children of divorce. My mom loves to say "children are resilient" and points to my achievements as evidence that my life isn't ruined, and it's a really silencing experience for me. I'm not allowed to express any negative thoughts about her divorce, even indirectly refer to the hassle of getting my toddlers to visit both grandparents separately, because she will just lecture me about my resilience as if the Resilience Fairy is going to make all the hassles go away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "children are resilient" is a pretty flippant way to address a complicated situation. It seems dismissive of perfectly legitimate concerns that parents have about the effect that their divorce will have on their child(ren).

I am the child of divorce and am also divorced and remarried. Children are resilient in that while many if not most children will experience distress as a result of a divorce, that distress is not automatically a life-ruining permanent state. I was pretty distressed when my parents got divorced, but I went on to have good relationships with both of them and generally not having relationship issues myself as an adult. (My divorce aside, obviously. I actually credit my parents' divorce with my ability to recognize that my marriage was really and truly salvageable and moving on.)

When I was getting divorced, rather than having people say "Children are resilient, she'll be fine" I would have rathered them say things like, "This is a time when it's important that she know that she has two parents who love her no matter what" or "Help her to understand the new structure of her life and try to keep things as consistent as possible so that she doesn't have to contend with a whole bunch of surprises and unpredictability on top of everything else." I would have appreciated people saying, "You are a good mom, even though you are doing this thing that will be hard for everyone for a while." I felt like "children are resilient" is pretty blaming - on the parent, for doing shitty stuff to their kid but it's okay, because RESILIENT, and on the child, because you're RESILIENT and therefore should not have these feelings you have.

+1 on the whole comment. It's sad that "not in a permanent and life-ruining state of distress" is where the bar is set for children of divorce. My mom loves to say "children are resilient" and points to my achievements as evidence that my life isn't ruined, and it's a really silencing experience for me. I'm not allowed to express any negative thoughts about her divorce, even indirectly refer to the hassle of getting my toddlers to visit both grandparents separately, because she will just lecture me about my resilience as if the Resilience Fairy is going to make all the hassles go away.

It probably makes her feel guilty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "children are resilient" is a pretty flippant way to address a complicated situation. It seems dismissive of perfectly legitimate concerns that parents have about the effect that their divorce will have on their child(ren).

I am the child of divorce and am also divorced and remarried. Children are resilient in that while many if not most children will experience distress as a result of a divorce, that distress is not automatically a life-ruining permanent state. I was pretty distressed when my parents got divorced, but I went on to have good relationships with both of them and generally not having relationship issues myself as an adult. (My divorce aside, obviously. I actually credit my parents' divorce with my ability to recognize that my marriage was really and truly salvageable and moving on.)

When I was getting divorced, rather than having people say "Children are resilient, she'll be fine" I would have rathered them say things like, "This is a time when it's important that she know that she has two parents who love her no matter what" or "Help her to understand the new structure of her life and try to keep things as consistent as possible so that she doesn't have to contend with a whole bunch of surprises and unpredictability on top of everything else." I would have appreciated people saying, "You are a good mom, even though you are doing this thing that will be hard for everyone for a while." I felt like "children are resilient" is pretty blaming - on the parent, for doing shitty stuff to their kid but it's okay, because RESILIENT, and on the child, because you're RESILIENT and therefore should not have these feelings you have.

+1 on the whole comment. It's sad that "not in a permanent and life-ruining state of distress" is where the bar is set for children of divorce. My mom loves to say "children are resilient" and points to my achievements as evidence that my life isn't ruined, and it's a really silencing experience for me. I'm not allowed to express any negative thoughts about her divorce, even indirectly refer to the hassle of getting my toddlers to visit both grandparents separately, because she will just lecture me about my resilience as if the Resilience Fairy is going to make all the hassles go away.

My mother is similar. Actually she was always saying how her being a "single parent" was better for me than having my dad around because he was so terrible, such a jerk etc. What I felt like saying but never said was "if he is such a jerk, then why did you choose to marry him and have two kids with him?" I loved my dad so obviously not having him around was much harder for me but I couldn't say that of course as she'd decided he was a jerk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "children are resilient" is a pretty flippant way to address a complicated situation. It seems dismissive of perfectly legitimate concerns that parents have about the effect that their divorce will have on their child(ren).

I am the child of divorce and am also divorced and remarried. Children are resilient in that while many if not most children will experience distress as a result of a divorce, that distress is not automatically a life-ruining permanent state. I was pretty distressed when my parents got divorced, but I went on to have good relationships with both of them and generally not having relationship issues myself as an adult. (My divorce aside, obviously. I actually credit my parents' divorce with my ability to recognize that my marriage was really and truly salvageable and moving on.)

When I was getting divorced, rather than having people say "Children are resilient, she'll be fine" I would have rathered them say things like, "This is a time when it's important that she know that she has two parents who love her no matter what" or "Help her to understand the new structure of her life and try to keep things as consistent as possible so that she doesn't have to contend with a whole bunch of surprises and unpredictability on top of everything else." I would have appreciated people saying, "You are a good mom, even though you are doing this thing that will be hard for everyone for a while." I felt like "children are resilient" is pretty blaming - on the parent, for doing shitty stuff to their kid but it's okay, because RESILIENT, and on the child, because you're RESILIENT and therefore should not have these feelings you have.

+1 on the whole comment. It's sad that "not in a permanent and life-ruining state of distress" is where the bar is set for children of divorce. My mom loves to say "children are resilient" and points to my achievements as evidence that my life isn't ruined, and it's a really silencing experience for me. I'm not allowed to express any negative thoughts about her divorce, even indirectly refer to the hassle of getting my toddlers to visit both grandparents separately, because she will just lecture me about my resilience as if the Resilience Fairy is going to make all the hassles go away.

It probably makes her feel guilty.

No doubt it does. But so what? I don't even disagree with her decision to get divorced. But it negatively affects our relationship because we have give the subject a wide berth, so there's a lot we can't really talk about. I have no choice but to accept and accommodate her divorce, I just wish she could accept my experience and my opinions as well.

[Anonymous]

Question to 16:14 and pp, so what happens when you dot down and have the divorce talk? I would think the other person is scared sh$tless seeing their life turned upside down. it must be a horrible situation.

[Anonymous]

meant sit down

[Anonymous]

I made a big mistake by deciding to sell the house right away. Ex wanted his equity out and I really didn't want to remain living in "our" home.

2nd mistake was buying another home right after I sold the marital home.

You are not in the position to make big decisions such as selling, buying, changing jobs, etc for the first year after you officially split.

Take your time and figure out as much as you can on your own, I figured out how we could evenly split out assets and we did that without an attorney which saved a ton of attorney fees. We figured out that I would be custodial, he would be EOWE, etc. The more you can do on your own, the less you will have to pay an attorney to do for you.

I was in such pain for the first few months I also hired an attorney to help me figure out if I could keep my kids from my ex when his GF was around. I spent a few thousand on that, big waste.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question to 16:14 and pp, so what happens when you dot down and have the divorce talk? I would think the other person is scared sh$tless seeing their life turned upside down. it must be a horrible situation.

I think it really varies based on the circumstances. It isn't necessarily a big surprise, and some people are better at dealing with this sort of thing, or have local family or know other divorced people so it isn't as unfamiliar. But I imagine it's usually pretty tough.

[Anonymous]

13:11 nailed it.

Also, be prepared for the ex H to abandon parental responsibilities and remarry ASAP, no matter how big a d-bag he is. Would have thought no one would touch mine with a 10 foot pole after my divorce. Nope! Remarried the day the papers were signed, already had another child by then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I made a big mistake by deciding to sell the house right away. Ex wanted his equity out and I really didn't want to remain living in "our" home.

2nd mistake was buying another home right after I sold the marital home.

You are not in the position to make big decisions such as selling, buying, changing jobs, etc for the first year after you officially split.

Take your time and figure out as much as you can on your own, I figured out how we could evenly split out assets and we did that without an attorney which saved a ton of attorney fees. We figured out that I would be custodial, he would be EOWE, etc. The more you can do on your own, the less you will have to pay an attorney to do for you.

I was in such pain for the first few months I also hired an attorney to help me figure out if I could keep my kids from my ex when his GF was around. I spent a few thousand on that, big waste.

Nope, you can't. Anyone considering divorce should understand that you really have almost no say over this sort of thing.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/mom_loses_custody_battle_with_ex_who_is_married_to_a_convicted_child_killer/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think that "children are resilient" is a pretty flippant way to address a complicated situation. It seems dismissive of perfectly legitimate concerns that parents have about the effect that their divorce will have on their child(ren).

I am the child of divorce and am also divorced and remarried. Children are resilient in that while many if not most children will experience distress as a result of a divorce, that distress is not automatically a life-ruining permanent state. I was pretty distressed when my parents got divorced, but I went on to have good relationships with both of them and generally not having relationship issues myself as an adult. (My divorce aside, obviously. I actually credit my parents' divorce with my ability to recognize that my marriage was really and truly salvageable and moving on.)

When I was getting divorced, rather than having people say "Children are resilient, she'll be fine" I would have rathered them say things like, "This is a time when it's important that she know that she has two parents who love her no matter what" or "Help her to understand the new structure of her life and try to keep things as consistent as possible so that she doesn't have to contend with a whole bunch of surprises and unpredictability on top of everything else." I would have appreciated people saying, "You are a good mom, even though you are doing this thing that will be hard for everyone for a while." I felt like "children are resilient" is pretty blaming - on the parent, for doing shitty stuff to their kid but it's okay, because RESILIENT, and on the child, because you're RESILIENT and therefore should not have these feelings you have.

+1 on the whole comment. It's sad that "not in a permanent and life-ruining state of distress" is where the bar is set for children of divorce. My mom loves to say "children are resilient" and points to my achievements as evidence that my life isn't ruined, and it's a really silencing experience for me. I'm not allowed to express any negative thoughts about her divorce, even indirectly refer to the hassle of getting my toddlers to visit both grandparents separately, because she will just lecture me about my resilience as if the Resilience Fairy is going to make all the hassles go away.

It probably makes her feel guilty.

No doubt it does. But so what? I don't even disagree with her decision to get divorced. But it negatively affects our relationship because we have give the subject a wide berth, so there's a lot we can't really talk about. I have no choice but to accept and accommodate her divorce, I just wish she could accept my experience and my opinions as well.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I agree with you. My mom is a lot like this. Not divorced, but she wasn't a very good mom. I have to tread carefully when I talk so as not to offend her. We'll never be able to get off a superficial level, but I'm okay with that at this point.